Ohio Heritage Conference 2024

Call It Like I See It said:
A Waynesville team that went 11-3 doesn't provide a tough enough game for Greeneview to play? Who should they schedule the state champ?
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i think Waynesville is a great game for the Rams yearly and should stay. would like to see them challenge themselves in Week 1 a little more. they are capable of beating some larger schools. it would go a long way come playoff time.
 
Call It Like I See It said:
You don't think this is a bit of a stretch? Each of those teams you listed are DIII, with the exception of Massie. Do any of the OHC schools schedule up two divisions for non league games? I guess I could look it up on Joe, but I just can't remember a whole lot of that happening. Heck, Cedarville schedules teams that didn't even field a team the previous year and teams that aren't even sanctioned with the OHSAA (2022).

Greeneview scrimmaged Washington CH for several years in their first scrimmage and they scrimmaged against Miami Trace a couple of years ago..
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yes, we have seen some schools “schedule up” when given the opportunity. I recall Greeneview hosting D2 Stebbins back in 2019 (?). Greeneview has a good program and they would benefit greatly from a challenging opponent in week 1. of the schools i mentioned, i think Greeneview would be favored against Miami Trace, Washington CH, Wilmington, and Western Brown more years than not. would be great games either way.

here’s another bit for you: in 2022, Greeneview beat Waynesville the week after they knocked off Clinton Massie. transitive victories may not mean much, but that tells me they would’ve been on the same playing field that season. Greeneview would certainly compete with Clinton Massie and Bellbrook in years they are more down to earth.
 
Ville45633 said:
All those teams named except grennon and thurgood would smash Greeneview. Greeneview is a great program but would struggle against all named teams above
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Eh, maybe so, but tough to say for sure. Keep in mind a lot of those teams smashed Shawnee too (which is why we got on this topic). So, wouldn't that mean a Shawnee/Greeneview matchup should be a good matchup? As far as Valley View goes, I think Waynesville proved at least last season they were on the same level.

Also, Greeneview a few years ago had some pretty impressive playoff games, including one against one of the best programs in Ohio. I genuinely think that a Greeneview/Shawnee matchup would be very good most years.

For S&Gs, here's how Calpreps projects a Greenview/Shawnee match-up the last 3 years:

2023: Shawnee 31, Greeneview 7
2022: Greeneview 31, Shawnee 28
2021: Shawnee 26, Greeneview 19

So one blowout, 2 close games. Certainly a better game for Shawnee to schedule than Madeira, Stebbins, Greenon, or Eaton. And a lot closer to most of the schools they've been playing.
 
Call It Like I See It said:
I stand corrected. I do see some OHC schools who scheduled up two divisions last year. But I don't see the benefit gained by any of them except for possibly Burg vs. KR. Either the OHC school got beat or if they won their opponent was awful.

WLS (D6) - WLS 48 - Graham 15 / Graham was 1-9 (D4)
WLS 42 - Ben Logan 7 / Ben Logan was 1-9 (D4)
Fairbanks (D6) - Fairbanks 0 - JA 47 / Jonathan Alder was 7-4 (D4)
Southeastern (D7) - SE 28 - Northwestern 20 / NW was 3-7 (D5)
Cedarville (D7) - Cedarville 35 - East Clinton 0 / EC was 4-6 (D5)
Mechanicsburg (D7) - Burg 38 - Kenton Ridge 7 / KR was 4-6 (D4)
Catholic Central (D7) - CC 21 - North College Hill 6 / NCH was 1-8 (D5)
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I've been very vocal about hating WLS' non-conference schedule. If Graham and Ben Logan were competitive most years, I'd be okay with it since they are 2 divisions larger. But since neither has been "regularly" competitive, I'd love both replaced. One MAC school and one CBC school who is usually very competitive (Shawnee, North Union, Indian Lake, Urbana, etc).
 
wls_color said:
Eh, maybe so, but tough to say for sure. Keep in mind a lot of those teams smashed Shawnee too (which is why we got on this topic). So, wouldn't that mean a Shawnee/Greeneview matchup should be a good matchup? As far as Valley View goes, I think Waynesville proved at least last season they were on the same level.

Also, Greeneview a few years ago had some pretty impressive playoff games, including one against one of the best programs in Ohio. I genuinely think that a Greeneview/Shawnee matchup would be very good most years.

For S&Gs, here's how Calpreps projects a Greenview/Shawnee match-up the last 3 years:

2023: Shawnee 31, Greeneview 7
2022: Greeneview 31, Shawnee 28
2021: Shawnee 26, Greeneview 19

So one blowout, 2 close games. Certainly a better game for Shawnee to schedule than Madeira, Stebbins, Greenon, or Eaton. And a lot closer to most of the schools they've been playing.
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Why is it better than Stebbins? Greeneview got beat 20-0 by a 2 win Stebbins team in 2019. And Stebbins is much improved since then
 
Ville45633 said:
Why is it better than Stebbins? Greeneview got beat 20-0 by a 2 win Stebbins team in 2019. And Stebbins is much improved since then
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You're looking at the worst Greeneview team during the last 10 years of success that the program has had. They went 5-5 in 2019, and were in a rebuilding year. Greeneview, most years over the last decade, has been a better football team than Stebbins. I will agree that Stebbins is definitely on the upswing right now and not a bad game for Shawnee.
 
wls_color said:
I've been very vocal about hating WLS' non-conference schedule. If Graham and Ben Logan were competitive most years, I'd be okay with it since they are 2 divisions larger. But since neither has been "regularly" competitive, I'd love both replaced. One MAC school and one CBC school who is usually very competitive (Shawnee, North Union, Indian Lake, Urbana, etc).
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I agree with what you are saying and meant no disrespect. I was just trying to see how many schools have played up. I also went through all of DV Region 20 in 2023 and there were only 3 teams in the entire region who scheduled up to play a D3 team; Bethel Tate / Purcell Marion / Mariemont.
 
ghsknightsfan said:
i think Waynesville is a great game for the Rams yearly and should stay. would like to see them challenge themselves in Week 1 a little more. they are capable of beating some larger schools. it would go a long way come playoff time.
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I wonder which is more realistic........a school's AD looks at the schedule 3/4 years in advance. They make a list of schools they want to see their team play. Then they see who is going to have openings and contact that schools AD to get it set up. Or are the week 1 and 2 games in the OHC set up out of necessity because there is no one more compatible to play when looking for a game on short notice in the next year or two?
 
Call It Like I See It said:
I wonder which is more realistic........a school's AD looks at the schedule 3/4 years in advance. They make a list of schools they want to see their team play. Then they see who is going to have openings and contact that schools AD to get it set up. Or are the week 1 and 2 games in the OHC set up out of necessity because there is no one more compatible to play when looking for a game on short notice in the next year or two?
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it seems like good coaches/ADs find games 2 or 3 years out so that there is a better pool of opponents to select from. the other end of that is coaches/ADs who do nothing about it and end up with a long bus trip, bad matchup, or extra away game because they waited too long. proactive vs reactive.

as for weeks 1 and 2, it is common practice for most leaks to have 2-3 “non conference” weeks where a school can schedule who they want. this gives schools an opportunity to play a local rivalry game, test themselves, or play an opponent of similar caliber.

non conference games are an opportunity to collect computer points outside of the league. if the OHC played a 10 game schedule, then teams would suffer when it came to harbin points. instead of “stealing” points from other leagues, the points would stay within the OHC.
 
Call It Like I See It said:
I agree with what you are saying and meant no disrespect. I was just trying to see how many schools have played up. I also went through all of DV Region 20 in 2023 and there were only 3 teams in the entire region who scheduled up to play a D3 team; Bethel Tate / Purcell Marion / Mariemont.
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Didn't take it that way at all. Just made me vent my frustration on WLS' schedule, haha.
 
There was a time GV, DIV played Bellebrook (DIII) week 1, Greenon (DIII) week 2 and another DIII school week 3.

Shawnee would be a good game, depending on the year.
WCH, would be a good one and like Northridge is winnable that can give some good points.
However, scheduling up divisions are not necessarily equal to upper-level competition. It's a fine balance to have good competition and games that you can win in the first two weeks versus scheduling just for the sake of better competition and games you are not likely to win. With that said, scheduling down divisions to upper echelon DVI/DVII teams will probably equal better point results than higher 1-9/2-10 DIV/DIII teams.
 
Gamma Gobbler said:
There was a time GV, DIV played Bellebrook (DIII) week 1, Greenon (DIII) week 2 and another DIII school week 3.

Shawnee would be a good game, depending on the year.
WCH, would be a good one and like Northridge is winnable that can give some good points.
However, scheduling up divisions are not necessarily equal to upper-level competition. It's a fine balance to have good competition and games that you can win in the first two weeks versus scheduling just for the sake of better competition and games you are not likely to win. With that said, scheduling down divisions to upper echelon DVI/DVII teams will probably equal better point results than higher 1-9/2-10 DIV/DIII teams.
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Greeneview played Bellbrook week 1 throughout the decade of the 1990's. I do not know if Greeneview would be able to compete with them now. The 24/25 figures have Bellbrook at 357 and Greeneview at 164. Almost 200 more boys seems like a tall task to overcome.
 
Call It Like I See It said:
Greeneview played Bellbrook week 1 throughout the decade of the 1990's. I do not know if Greeneview would be able to compete with them now. The 24/25 figures have Bellbrook at 357 and Greeneview at 164. Almost 200 more boys seems like a tall task to overcome.
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well the reports coming from Jamestown is that they are going to have 60ish kids on the team this year. that is probably similar to what Bellbrook has. the only difference is Bellbrook has a larger pool to pull from.

if Greeneview (or any OHC) is rolling out 55-60 kids any given fall, i am pretty confident they would compete with or beat most teams the size of Bellbrook.
 
ghsknightsfan said:
well the reports coming from Jamestown is that they are going to have 60ish kids on the team this year. that is probably similar to what Bellbrook has. the only difference is Bellbrook has a larger pool to pull from.

if Greeneview (or any OHC) is rolling out 55-60 kids any given fall, i am pretty confident they would compete with or beat most teams the size of Bellbrook.
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Well thank you for the compliment. I guess you are a little more optimistic than I am.
 
ghsknightsfan said:
well the reports coming from Jamestown is that they are going to have 60ish kids on the team this year. that is probably similar to what Bellbrook has. the only difference is Bellbrook has a larger pool to pull from.

if Greeneview (or any OHC) is rolling out 55-60 kids any given fall, i am pretty confident they would compete with or beat most teams the size of Bellbrook.
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Curious…..if Bellbrook has 60 boys willing to play football and GV has 60 boys also willing to play football isn’t that equal depth? Having 50 more golfers and trombone players in a school that don’t/cant play football isn’t really a larger pool. Am I missing something?
 
Being bigger certainly matters. It’s not the be all, end all, but it matters.

The problem with the 60 vs 60 comparison is the “weeding out” process for the bigger school to get to 60 often leaves them with a more talented 60.

Obviously there’s lots of exceptions to the rule but in average a random D3 school will have more talent than a random D5 school.
 
bcw said:
Being bigger certainly matters. It’s not the be all, end all, but it matters.

The problem with the 60 vs 60 comparison is the “weeding out” process for the bigger school to get to 60 often leaves them with a more talented 60.

Obviously there’s lots of exceptions to the rule but in average a random D3 school will have more talent than a random D5 school.
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bingo
 
bcw said:
Being bigger certainly matters. It’s not the be all, end all, but it matters.

The problem with the 60 vs 60 comparison is the “weeding out” process for the bigger school to get to 60 often leaves them with a more talented 60.

Obviously there’s lots of exceptions to the rule but in average a random D3 school will have more talent than a random D5 school.
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I get that a larger roster leaves room for more talent but other than boys quitting there is no weeding out process in football. I don’t know of any team that cuts players. Thanks for the response…..just curious about your reasoning
 
The weeding out happens organically

A school like Bellbrook might have 35 kids in a grade playing football. As they move through youth and MS, that number works its way down to 15. Kids that aren’t playing focus their energy elsewhere and leave the team.

A school like Greeneview may start with 20 kids in the same class. Eventually that works down to 15 as well but from a more shallow talent pool.

On average the bigger school ends up with better talent when it’s said and done. (Obviously lots of exceptions and many other factors in play)
 
bcw said:
The weeding out happens organically

A school like Bellbrook might have 35 kids in a grade playing football. As they move through youth and MS, that number works its way down to 15. Kids that aren’t playing focus their energy elsewhere and leave the team.

A school like Greeneview may start with 20 kids in the same class. Eventually that works down to 15 as well but from a more shallow talent pool.

On average the bigger school ends up with better talent when it’s said and done. (Obviously lots of exceptions and many other factors in play)
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Correct. I would imagine that a 60 man roster from St. Edwards may look a little different than the 60 man roster from Greeneview.
 
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