Super Bowl: 49ers vs Chiefs (2/11)
- Thread starter Yappi
- Start date
The game will be decided in 4OT with Mahomes throwing an off-balance, 35-yd TD to Travis Kelce with one-tenth of a second left on the clock, with Bosa and 3 other defenders wrapped around his legs. Kelce will, of course, make the one-handed between-the knees catch sandwiched between 2 defenders, thus causing a riot in the endzone as time expires. Swift will come running out of the loge seats shouting "I Love you Travis...have my baby!!!" Mayhem will thus ensue, before order is restored and Jake from State Farm shows up to shoot a State Farm commercial.
Last edited:
RazorRamon
Well-known member
If KC wins, which I fully expect, Pat/Andy are in the same stratosphere as Tom and Bill. I think Mahomes may be even better than Brady when all is said and done. Wash, rinse and repeat
Sykotyk
Well-known member
Thing is, Andy is a decent coach, but I don't like this idea of deifying him just because he got one of the best QBs ever to take an above average team to annual Super Bowl contender level. A coach can only do so much. It's the player(s) he has that matters more. Bill hasn't done much since Tom left. Tom won a Super Bowl. Andy's team got him to a Super Bowl.
Schottenheimer was a great coach, but never had THE player to put him over the top and his players had some unfortunate miscues in big games that can't really be on the coach. Meanwhile a guy like Bill Cowher who annually made some real headscratcher decisions in-game eventually won a Super Bowl because a) his team's personnel dept was great at finding players, b) his ownership absolutely refused to fire him and through seasonal osmosis learned just enough to get one Super Bowl win where his winning QB set the record for lowest QB rating in a Super Bowl by a winning team.
Dan Campbell is going to be a similar issue as Schottenheimer. He's going to inspire and prepare his team, but like Cowher is going to make in-game gaffes that will infuriate anyone. But he doesn't have that star player at the most important position to make up for his mistakes. Goff isn't it.
Wanna really see a comparison: Coughlin. Giants HC, took them to two Super Bowls, and beat probably the best player of our generation. Why, because he was a hell of a coach to take a rough team into a game. Yeah, the Tyree catch was great, but they were an 18 point underdog that came out prepared and were leading through much of the game and still thanks to an above average QB in Eli (not great, just above average), won. And did it again just to prove it wasn't a fluke. But most of the time the Giants franchise were dysfunctional turnstiles that failed to consistently win and despite loving Eli, he wasn't 'superstar' like his Brother was (with one less title until Broncos' Super Team with an all-time level defense beat Carolina).
Last edited:
WJ-OSU-STEELERS
Well-known member
I kinda disagree with your description of:
* Andy Reid is a decent coach
* Marty Schottenheimer was a great coach
Reid is 258-144-1, 64.14%, 25-16 playoffs (10-9 in Philly), 3 losing seasons
Schottenheimer was 200-126-1, 62.31%, 5-13 playoffs (lost last 6 playoff games), 2 losing seasons
Reid made it to a Super Bowl with a good, not great qb in Donavon McNabb and cut ties with KC qb Alex Smith who had 5 consecutive winning seasons in KC w/ 2 All Pro seasons to start Patrick Mahomes. Yea, it’s easy now to say that should have been a no brainer decision but you’re talking about going from a proven commodity to a unproven commodity.
I really like Schottenheimer, tough guy & teams played with a toughness. His Cleveland teams played in a time when a good running game still had a chance at getting one to the Super Bowl. Bernie Kosar was average to above average but their running game was as good as anyone’s in the NFL. Despite being the better team Browns/Marty couldn’t get by Elway. Even if they did, NFC was far better and those Browns teams would have been a 7+ pt underdog in the Super Bowl. San Diego, similar situation. Great rb in Tomlinson, just ran into NE. I hope Schottenheimer someday gets into the NFL HOF, he is deserving.
Both good coaches but I’d give Reid an edge.
Sykotyk
Well-known member
Judging by wins and losses doesn't really differentiate between whether the team had a great set of players or the coach was actually good calling a game in-game. You can win in spite of a coach or win because of a coach.
As for McNabb, that's not much different than a Kosar, Alex Smith, etc. Above average, but not great. A great QB is going to win you games and Super Bowls just because of them. Regardless the quality of the coach. Unless you think Bruce Arians really was a spectacular head coach for winning a Super Bowl in his second year. No, it was because of Brady. McNabb had one crack at a Super Bowl when he had one of the best receivers of all time (despite his theatrics) to throw to, and then promptly puked on the field when things got stressful.
As for the Marty/Elway comment... exactly. Elway was a great QB. Unfortunately for the Browns, one of the all-time greats of his time. The 98 yard drive doesn't happen with even average quarterbacks. Browns didn't have a great QB. They had an above average QB but not one that was going to put the team on his back and will them to a title. Yeah, Elway lost the first few he played. But that was because Broncos were a fairly subpar team with a great QB. Similar to what Marino dealt with (and he had what many considered one of the best coaches of all-time until then, and the winningest). What's funny is Kelly is always lumped into the group because of the Bills success, but their one shining moment of their 4 year run, aside from losing four Super Bowls, was that the 35-3 epic comeback was done by... Frank Reich. But the Bills had an otherwise great team. Thomas, Bennett, Bruce Smith... They got to the Super Bowl thanks to the team, failed to win it because they went up against teams whose defenses could stymie a relative slightly above average QB. Broncos, though, with Elway got really good around him and won back-to-back titles thanks to the running of Terrell Davis. Teams couldn't load up against the great QB and have hope to beat him.
But, back to coaches. I'm not talking about motivators, personnel decision makers, etc. I'm talking about in-game xs and os play callers and are they smart for when the situation dictates. Pete Carroll may be called a great coach. But was dumb as hell for throwing at the goal line when you had one of the most unstoppable running backs in his prime poised to knock off, or at least severely hinder, the greatest QB of all-time at that time.
There's not many plays you can look back on and say "Schottenheimer didn't know what he was doing". The fumble? A fluke. It was a great play call. He was running probably the best called play and just let it get knocked loose.
Having been married to a Steelers fan, I watched a lot of Steelers games (plus they're on TV alot when you get Pittsburgh channels in addition to Youngstown ones). I got to see a lot of dumb calls by Cowher and Tomlin. They're not good coaches. They're great motivators. And they work from a position of strength due to the Steeler's personnel department being really good at eyeballing quality players through the draft. That's not on the coach. Cowher didn't make the call to draft anyone. Neither did Tomlin. Steelers are winning 7-10 games a year just on their roster with a magic eight ball deciding whether to run or pass. And don't think I don't lump Stefanski in with them. He makes some horrible blunders throughout the game. And the Browns QB isn't great enough to overcome those mistakes.
Coaches that start looking at percentages of probability for what a defense is EXPECTING you to do and then just going against it to 'not be predictable' fail to realize that most of football is just knowing your opponent knows what you're going to do and just overpowering them while doing it. You know how many games we put Chubb on a shelf in the 4th quarter or second half because teams EXPECT YOU TO RUN in the 4th when you have a lead? No, you let them know and you tell them we're gong to run it down your throat anyways because we're better at it.
Hell, on Sunday the Ravens did the same thing. Best rushing team of the season. By over 300 more yards than the second best team.... Rushed 6 times for 23 yards the entire game by their running backs. What's worse, the entire second half, they rushed 6 total times. Three times by Jackson scrambling. And of the three handoffs? Two came on the first two plays of the half. The entire rest of the second half they had one designed run play called. In a game you lose by 7? The #1 rush attack going against an average rush defense? In a 7 point game and instead you throw into triple coverage in the endzone? You call one rushing play for nearly the entire end of the second half?
That's on the coaching. It's why 'great' teams keep losing in the playoffs. It's not the players making horrible mistakes (though that triple coverage toss can be argued). Meanwhile, KC has one of the best players ever now, and certainly argued best current player, who just rarely makes mistakes. The rest of KC rarely makes mistakes. Doesn't take a coaching genius to win games as coach. Just sit back and collect the Ws and let people call you a great coach.
WJ-OSU-STEELERS
Well-known member
I still think you are not giving Reid quite the credit I believe he has earned. Yes, Reid has the best player in the game who is on pace to possibly outdo Tom Brady. But keep in mind:
* Reid is 22-3 after the bye week in his career
* Reid is 7-3 in the playoffs when given an extra week to prepare/has a bye week
* Mahomes/KC had a midseason difficulty last year (1st year without Hill). Mahomes had to learn to attack defenses a bit different without the home run deep threat. He figured it out after a month or so, I would think Reid had something to do with it.
These are examples of coaching. I couldn’t find Marty’s record after the bye week but I highly doubt it’s 22-3. One other thing, Marty lost his last 6 playoff games. His coaching career more closely resembles Tomlin’s from a results standpoint.
Those Broncos Super Bowl teams their best player was not Elway, it was rb Terrell Davis. Elway was 37/38 years old and running in fumes that last season. He gutted it out.
As you know Coaching is more than just the X & O’s. Yea, some coaches get lucky & an all time great falls in their lap but one has to create an atmosphere for them to flourish in. If nothing else, gotta credit Belicheck & Reid for that.
In the end, Super Bowl wins are the #1 measuring stick for coaches & players. I don’t think Brady is the best qb I ever saw. In an interview yesterday regarding Mahomes possibly becoming the all time greatest qb, Brady said would be the first to congratulate Mahomes if he ever got 7 SB wins.
Last edited:
Bull GreenDog
Well-known member
San Francisco is the better team, plain and simple. 49ers get it done.
GoArrowsGo
Well-known member
I couldn’t disagree more, Pat Mahomes was not doing the things he’s doing now at Texas Tech. Kliff Kingsbury was his college coach and they were going 7-6 while Mahomes was there. If Pat doesn’t go to the Chiefs and Andy Reid’s system there is a good chance that he’s just another “good” QB in another franchise.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Reid is the best coach in the NFL calls a good game and adjusts his play calling depending on the game, vs Ravens played conservative (2nd half) and let his defense win the game. Chiefs rarely beat themselves like the Lions did vs 49ers. As for this game Chiefs have the better defense and will win 20 to 17. KC only once this year gave up more than 20 pts. in a game and won (Buffalo playoff game 27 - 24).
FierceGrizzly
Moderated User
Overall, I agree with the majority opinion in the discussion that the victory will go to the Kansas City Chiefs. They have a strong team led by the outstanding quarterback Patrick Mahomes, and coach Andy Reid knows how to prepare the team for crucial matches. The San Francisco 49ers also have a chance, but the Chiefs appear to be a more balanced team. It should be an interesting and tense game!
underthelights
Well-known member
Just some thoughts on the game.
Chiefs:
-I love Andy Reid. He's a great coach and his players seem to love him. I enjoy his play calling and he has really evolved from a coach that never ran the ball to a play caller that understands what the defense is attacking and then does a great job of calling plays to counter that. Plus, I think he got a raw deal in Philly.
-I'm starting to feel like Mahomes is getting a little to comfortable being the darling of the NFL. He complains to the refs constantly and this really makes it hard to root for him. Great QB, great athlete, super annoying on field persona.
-The Kelce and Swift thing is annoying, but it's neither of their faults that the NFL marketing decides to show the box every time Kelce catches a pass. I almost feel bad for them, they're just dating and the NFL has turned it into some soap opera love story to draw viewers. However, this also makes me want to root against the Hollywood ending. This who situation makes the NFL feel like the WWE as opposed to a real sport.
-Pacheco is a working mans running back. Dude runs hard and doesn't talk about it. He's good out of the backfield, protects when called on to so, and puts his head down for the tough yardage.
-The Chiefs defense... does the NFL even care about defense anymore? I honestly can't even name anyone outside of Sneed on their defense.
49ers:
-I want them to win. I think they're an organization that is run extremely well. I also root for Lynch to have success.
-Kyle Shanahan is a great coach with the way he has managed all of these supers star players. He's also a creative play caller that does a great job finding mismatches for his superstars. Deebo Samual is an example of this over the past few years. Plus, he used to coach for the Browns and the cyinicist in me loves when former Browns coaches win elsewhere.
-I'll take the 49ers defense over just about anyone, although it was hard to watch Chase Young jog around the field in the NFC Championship.
-George Kittle has to be one of the most selfless players in the league. He's a dominant blocker. Kelce gets all the headlines, but Kelce is the best TE in football. I even would venture to say he is more explosive with the ball in his hands.
-They have the most explosive skill group in football with Christian McCaffery as the headliner. I low key love that his dad also played for the 9ers during the 1994 run.
-Purdy is good. Would he be successful elsewhere? It's hard to tell. However, how can you fault a guy for having superstars? I would say that Aiyuk wouldn't be the player he is without Purdy.
Chiefs:
-I love Andy Reid. He's a great coach and his players seem to love him. I enjoy his play calling and he has really evolved from a coach that never ran the ball to a play caller that understands what the defense is attacking and then does a great job of calling plays to counter that. Plus, I think he got a raw deal in Philly.
-I'm starting to feel like Mahomes is getting a little to comfortable being the darling of the NFL. He complains to the refs constantly and this really makes it hard to root for him. Great QB, great athlete, super annoying on field persona.
-The Kelce and Swift thing is annoying, but it's neither of their faults that the NFL marketing decides to show the box every time Kelce catches a pass. I almost feel bad for them, they're just dating and the NFL has turned it into some soap opera love story to draw viewers. However, this also makes me want to root against the Hollywood ending. This who situation makes the NFL feel like the WWE as opposed to a real sport.
-Pacheco is a working mans running back. Dude runs hard and doesn't talk about it. He's good out of the backfield, protects when called on to so, and puts his head down for the tough yardage.
-The Chiefs defense... does the NFL even care about defense anymore? I honestly can't even name anyone outside of Sneed on their defense.
49ers:
-I want them to win. I think they're an organization that is run extremely well. I also root for Lynch to have success.
-Kyle Shanahan is a great coach with the way he has managed all of these supers star players. He's also a creative play caller that does a great job finding mismatches for his superstars. Deebo Samual is an example of this over the past few years. Plus, he used to coach for the Browns and the cyinicist in me loves when former Browns coaches win elsewhere.
-I'll take the 49ers defense over just about anyone, although it was hard to watch Chase Young jog around the field in the NFC Championship.
-George Kittle has to be one of the most selfless players in the league. He's a dominant blocker. Kelce gets all the headlines, but Kelce is the best TE in football. I even would venture to say he is more explosive with the ball in his hands.
-They have the most explosive skill group in football with Christian McCaffery as the headliner. I low key love that his dad also played for the 9ers during the 1994 run.
-Purdy is good. Would he be successful elsewhere? It's hard to tell. However, how can you fault a guy for having superstars? I would say that Aiyuk wouldn't be the player he is without Purdy.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Liked your post till that statement, the Chiefs are in the SB because of their defense. Only once this year did the Chiefs give up more than 20pts. in a game and won. Chiefs were 15th in scoring offense, 2nd in scoring defense. High scoring game favors the 49ers.Just some thoughts on the game.
Chiefs:
-I love Andy Reid. He's a great coach and his players seem to love him. I enjoy his play calling and he has really evolved from a coach that never ran the ball to a play caller that understands what the defense is attacking and then does a great job of calling plays to counter that. Plus, I think he got a raw deal in Philly.
-I'm starting to feel like Mahomes is getting a little to comfortable being the darling of the NFL. He complains to the refs constantly and this really makes it hard to root for him. Great QB, great athlete, super annoying on field persona.
-The Kelce and Swift thing is annoying, but it's neither of their faults that the NFL marketing decides to show the box every time Kelce catches a pass. I almost feel bad for them, they're just dating and the NFL has turned it into some soap opera love story to draw viewers. However, this also makes me want to root against the Hollywood ending. This who situation makes the NFL feel like the WWE as opposed to a real sport.
-Pacheco is a working mans running back. Dude runs hard and doesn't talk about it. He's good out of the backfield, protects when called on to so, and puts his head down for the tough yardage.
-The Chiefs defense... does the NFL even care about defense anymore? I honestly can't even name anyone outside of Sneed on their defense.
49ers:
-I want them to win. I think they're an organization that is run extremely well. I also root for Lynch to have success.
-Kyle Shanahan is a great coach with the way he has managed all of these supers star players. He's also a creative play caller that does a great job finding mismatches for his superstars. Deebo Samual is an example of this over the past few years. Plus, he used to coach for the Browns and the cyinicist in me loves when former Browns coaches win elsewhere.
-I'll take the 49ers defense over just about anyone, although it was hard to watch Chase Young jog around the field in the NFC Championship.
-George Kittle has to be one of the most selfless players in the league. He's a dominant blocker. Kelce gets all the headlines, but Kelce is the best TE in football. I even would venture to say he is more explosive with the ball in his hands.
-They have the most explosive skill group in football with Christian McCaffery as the headliner. I low key love that his dad also played for the 9ers during the 1994 run.
-Purdy is good. Would he be successful elsewhere? It's hard to tell. However, how can you fault a guy for having superstars? I would say that Aiyuk wouldn't be the player he is without Purdy.
underthelights
Well-known member
Precisely. How often is their defense talked about? The NFL doesn't care about defense. I probably could have been more clear in that statement. But seriously, outside of Sneed and Jones, who gets talked about on their defense. Google "Chiefs best players" and what other defensive players pop up?
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
The Chiefs allowed 17.3 pts. per game this season that would have been 2nd in the NFL 20 years ago. Defense still wins Championships.
Underthelights, I agree with you !00% about the 49'ers. It is a first class organization with John Lynch leading the way. It goes back to when the Dibartolos were running them. When my son was young, he wanted a jersey and he told me who he wanted. I told him no, but if he wanted a "Lynch jersey", I would gladly buy it for him. The reason was that as a player, I felt he did it the right way.
Orin Swift
Well-known member
Chris Jones has been arguably the best, and if not then the second best, DT in the league over the last 5 years.
Trent McDuffie is probably KC’s CB1 over Sneed and if he isn’t, he will starting next year
Nick Bolton is one of the best young LBers in the league.
underthelights
Well-known member
Right, I watch football. You missed the point, or perhaps I did a poor job of getting it across.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Based on this thread, I was also going to mention Chris Jones and McDuffie. I guess you remembered their names after the original post? Or you did a poor job of getting your point across. Or both.
underthelights
Well-known member
Man, tough crowd on here today. I guess as long as you achieve a level contentedness by pointing out the discordance of your thoughts and my posts, then I'm thankful I could brighten your day.
underthelights
Well-known member
Kansas City's starting defense for those of you who are choosing to nitpick one part of my post to entertain yourselves today. The point I was getting across is that KC has a top defense, but when the talking heads bring up KC, defense is not the headline. Hence why I questioned, "does the NFL even care about defense anymore?"
Off hand, I didn't think about Jones or McDuffie right away, even though Jones is a top defensive lineman. Again, with all of the theatrics going on with the Chiefs, he is overshadowed and didn't come to mind right away. I'm old. It happens. I stopped memorizing team rosters when I was in grade school.
Last edited:
y2h
Well-known member
Why would defense be the headline in talking about KC? Their run under Reid and Mahomes has been built on offense, of course that's the headline.
The Browns defense was certainly the headline in discussing them this year. If the Steelers were in the SB the headline would be their defense.
underthelights
Well-known member
I had no clue KCs defense was decent let alone elite until the AFC championship game. I thought offensively KC matched up better against the SF defense that is why I picked KC. Now you go back do a little research and it's a no brainer for me to take KC.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
If you truly believe that then bet a fortune on the under. The line is 47 or 47.5 most places.
To me this feels like a higher scoring affair. SF will play a lot of zone to cover their one weakness (corners). Mahomes/Kelce thrive against a zone, and Reid will have a field day. KC's defense has been good, but can be run on. SF has way to much skill to be held down. I think it is a 27-24 type of game. Or higher.
Rooting for the 49ers, never thought I'd ever say those words, a part of me is selfish in that I dont want the media to blow up about Mahomes being better than Brady, but I think that ship has long sailed.
Score prediction:
KC - 34
SF - 17
Crazy Prediction
KC
Kelce - 2 rec TD
Rice - 1 rec TD
Pacheco - 1 rush TD
Butker - 2 FG
SF
McCaffrey - 1 rush TD
Samuel - 1 rush TD
Moody - 1 FG
Game is tied at 14, Purdy throws a pick, KC never looks back.
Score prediction:
KC - 34
SF - 17
Crazy Prediction
KC
Kelce - 2 rec TD
Rice - 1 rec TD
Pacheco - 1 rush TD
Butker - 2 FG
SF
McCaffrey - 1 rush TD
Samuel - 1 rush TD
Moody - 1 FG
Game is tied at 14, Purdy throws a pick, KC never looks back.