New Guard Vs. Old Guard at Jackson

I

I Am Jackson

New member
It seems to me that recently their has boiled to the surface tensions regarding the direction in which Jackson is currently headed.

The old guard doesn't like the BOE, doesn't like the addition to the high school, doesn't approve of the direction of the football and basketball programs, doesn't like the fact that the lights are turned out and music blares during the basketball games and doesn't like the fact that our colors have changed to a black and purple combination instead of the traditional purple/gold. The old guard wants the school and community to be in the mold of Hoover, Massillon and Perry.

The new guard generally supports the BOE's decisions and loves the addition to the High School. As one NGO (New Guard Order) told me "it's like a big in your face We Are Jackson when you walk into the building." The New Guard loves the new attitude of the football and basketball programs, loves the fact that the school isn't worried what the Repository and those in the community will say about their brashness and cockiness. The new guard likes the combination of school colors. The new guard wants the school and community to be in the mold of Hudson and Upper Arlington in Cbus.

People have made comparisons that this is very comparable to what happened on "Lost" where the others were taken over by the Dharma Initiative. I'll have to agree with that comparison.

Is this accurate??


Boom Outta Here..........
 
 
Love the old guard vs. new guard argument. That usually translates into 'pays the bills' vs. 'doesn't.' Would that be a fair assessment?

It seems that the heavy burden of property taxes tends to fall on the 'old guard' since they tend to be property owners. The nonsense of suggesting they move if they can't afford to pay more is just that - nonsense.

Instead of trying to classify us as old or new guard, how about a discussion on how best to fix school funding. Seems much more productive to me.
 
I think what you are saying is a fair argument although members of the NGO might disagree with you concerning who pays property taxes and who doesn't.

I think there are many members of the NGO who have kids in the school system and are supporting the direction the BOE is taking the community. I'm sure they also pay property taxes. I think it's fair to disagree with those decisions certainly but what I constantly hear from OGO members is that they want the school system to be in the mold of Hoover, Massillon and Perry and that is not what the NGO wants.

I understand the OGO's belief that the BOE is wastefully spending their money. These are also the same people for some reason who seem to not like the mix of school colors and the attitude of the athletic programs. It seems that the whole philosphy of the OGO seems to be a belief that the way things were are better than the way things are becoming.

I have no dog in this fight but I think it's intersting that the two camps are starting to bring their differences to the surface. Just last week I saw students from Jackson making the sign of the NGO to their friends.

Boom Outta Here......
 
Personally, I don't see any logic when people want to classify us as old vs. new guard. That only serves to divide our community.

To me, the issue should be old funding vs. new funding methods. For years, JT voters approved all levy and bond issues. The school system pushed it too far. We now have inside millage, three bond issues and two 'emergency' levy that account for about 75% of all property taxes. Then, factor in the stealth tactics used by the BOE and administration to get the most recent levy passed could easily come back to haunt them when they try to get the larger 'emergency' levy approved again.

Regardless of the fancy HS, change in school colors, lack of administrative leadership, it still comes down to how to best fund our schools. I'm still a big fan of local levies. It helps the electorate maintain control. I'd had to see total state support since I'd hate to see us become as bad as Cleveland. My vote would be to see all districts get the same level of state support and allow local districts to supplement as the voters want.

Tag you're it.
 
For the record, I guess I could be considered "middle guard"....lol. Okay....lots and lots of rambling here.......so bear w/me.....

School Colors: Provided we keep purple as a dominant color, I don't care if we move away from yellow towards black, as some teams have done (e.g. football). The younger kids seem to like black, and since they're the ones wearing the uniform - I don't mind it being our alternate color. Just don't mess w/the purple.

Budget Woes & Leadership: I get a kick out of this, because so many people think that the financial & administrative issues that we've been having lately appear to be exclusive to this time frame the 2000's). However, what many don't realize is that this has happened before and under the guidance of a man many think is great - Joe Larson. In the late 80's, we had numerous levies fail and the entire district had some serious budgeting woes. As we were planning our new HS to be built in 1976, the money management was so problematic that we squandered away having a natatorium (it would've been built where the Center for Performing Arts is now). Instead of having our own home pool, we were content letting oru kids swim at the old Seminary - then when that went to private hands, the Branin Natatorium. Now our we have a closer pool - and we see the problems w/that. Anyhow - the point is that we need to realize that we've had these problems in the past and we've worked through them. In generations past where budget woes were a problem, we would probably have had ten times more problems w/the electorate if the transparency was as clear as it is today - back then, you couldn't just get online and see the 5-year forecast. Technology has made things more accessible and thus problems become more readily apparent - prior to this - those problems could be 'swept under the rug' easier. And since we had problems w/passing levies back then, imagine if the electorate knew what today's electorate knows!!!!! Plus it doesn't help that the state/federal government is paying less for our schools than EVER before. Heck, just since Mr. Larson retired, our state funding has been sliced dramatically - requiring us to pay even more out of our own pockets.

Building an Athletic Program like Hoover: How is this a bad thing? Did you know there are SEVEN team state trophies sitting in Hoover's showcases. Do you know how many are in Jackson's? I'll give you a hint.....you don't need ONE finger to count them on. In fact, we are one of only two school in the entire Federal League without a team state title of ANY kind (the other is - surprisingly enough - Perry). Prior to Jackson narrowly edging out the Vikes for the All-Sports trophy last year, Hoover won SIX straight all-sports titles. And they are on pace to easily win it this year, as they now hold a comfortable sixteen point lead going into Spring, which is virtually insurmountable. Hoover placed better than Jackson in the Fed in EVERY SINGLE WINTER SPORT this year. EVERY one of them!!!! Obviously Hoover knows how to play ball, so I have no problem trying to emulate them.

Being Like Massillon: If you're talking about anything other than football, I'll end my spiel here. However, I would LOVE to have the football fanbase and tradition Massillon has. Did you know that the Tigers average more home fans at their games than our entire stadium holds? That's pretty amazing! They've been to three state title games in the playoff era and won 22 state titles prior to that era. That's pretty amazing and I'd love to see that football success occur here at Jackson.

Now - do I want to sacrifie academics for athletics - oh HECK NO!!! However, I'd love to see us stop being the #2 or #3 or #whatever team in the state and see a few #1's!!! Or to at least be respected as a serious powerhouse - instead of a mid-major. We can do it if we really focus on it as a community. Some days I think we're so content w/our great acadmemics and reasonably good athletics, that we get lulled into thinking "reasonably good athletics" are good enough. Or that winning the Federal League trophy in whatsoever sport is a great success when it should be a mere stepping stone to a state title.

I love that we have some (now) well-established youth sports in this township - we've come a LONG way in that aspect. But we must keep demanding that absolute best out of our kids and stop coddling them with the "oh hey look - you won the Federal League, it's okay that you didn't win states" attitude. While I'm delighted we may have won the FLC and perhaps that's all we really had the talent to, we really need to push ourselves even HARDER to be #1 - not just in our league, but in the state. In all sports. And if that means putting down the danged PS3 and/or skipping a trip to the mall, then so be it.

And above all else...for crying out loud....we need to stop with the "snobbish" "elitist" attitude some have in this community. I am so sick and tired of cheers like "wash our Lexus" at ball games. Do our kids honestly think that that makes us better than lesser-financially-advantaged kids from Perry or McKinley or wherever? No, it just pisses thtem off even more to beat us on the mat, court and/or field. Show some freaking respect to those around us.

/end rant/

(Please forgive the typing errors....I'm not going back to edit it, but I'm sure you get the points.)
 
Hey Purple, Good post. Helps put things in perspective. Any ideas how best to deal with the level of state funding. Personally, I'm sick that we get maybe a 10% return on our state tax dollars while Cleveland gets something like a 1000% return.

BTW. Hope you don't mind me joining your forum for a change.
 
JimHardy said:
Hey Purple, Good post. Helps put things in perspective. Any ideas how best to deal with the level of state funding. Personally, I'm sick that we get maybe a 10% return on our state tax dollars while Cleveland gets something like a 1000% return.

BTW. Hope you don't mind me joining your forum for a change.
Click to expand...

If I had any ideas....I'd be running for state legislator and would likely win!!! And glad to have you join our forum. Good to see you here.

And yes - I'd rather have the local control. We see what happens when government takes control of things at the local level. Not usually a pretty sight.
---

As far as I go - I want to see what's best for Jackson, as I've been a member of this community for nearly 40 years. That would be long enough to remember:

~ when Belden Village was built (the kids LOVED those giant dirt piles!)
~ when The Strip was still a gravel pit and the hill on Portage was MUCH higher going by it
~ when Strausser Road looked like it was the victim of a bombing run
~ when Wales Square still belonged to Jackson and Best Products was the anchor of it
~ when Piggly Wiggly and Krogers and McArdle's IGA were members of our community
~ when JHS was still on Mudbrook
~ when our police force was born with (not joking) flesh-toned and brown cruisers
~ when Sohio was there instead of Family Video
~ when Monty's was the place to hang out after school
~ when the one room school house housed the Jackson Journal - and later "The Dairy Cup" and was still on Wales!
~ when Fulton Road was only two lanes through Lake Cable....and that was plenty
~ when you could drive on Mt. Pleasant from Highmill to North Canton without making a turn (granted this was a good thing - it's nice to see CAK grow)
~ when Sauder was a junior high school

The point is not to lament changes to our township, but to sit back and realize where we were, what mistakes we've made and to not repeat them, and what successes we've had and how to build on them. If we refuse to remember our history & blindly look at just the present, sometimes we don't see the big picture of what Jackson is.

PS to "I am Jackson" - you DO have a dog in this fight if you grew up here, live here now, or work here.
 
Wow, I counted and I can only say that I 'remember' 6 of the items on your list. It makes me wonder how anyone else could claim the name "I am Jackson."
 
PolarPurple- I do have opinions about the community but I haven't made my decision yet whether I'm NGO or OGO. I respect and understand the arguments on both sides. I think your articulation of our community's history puts a better perspective on the current BOE's decisisons in the mind of the OGO.

I like the addition to the high school, understand that people are angry at the BOE and the higher taxes, property taxes are usually a reflection of the community and any area that has high commercialization and a good school system will have higher property taxes.

The school colors debate seems a moot point as the NGO going as far back as the 90's wanted an alternative black while still maintaing the traditional purple/gold but the OGO would have none of it.


I do agree with you PolarPurple about trying to match Hoover's athletic accomplishments, but I think when the OGO talks about emulating Hoover, Perry and Massillon they are talking about more in identity than athletic awards.
The music and lights turning out during the basketball games seems to reflect this new tradition. The OGO was always big on Jackson trying to play second fiddle to Hoover in a sorry attempt to emulate their students and community. But Jackson has always been about brashness and cockiness and that has finally come to fruition.
I never really had a problem with kids doing the rich chants because every wealthy school district does it and it's cliche to think that anyone would take it that personally...that's who Jackson is and that's what school districts like Jackson do (Hudson, Upper Arlington). We are not like Hoover or Massillon or Perry and shouldn't act like them just to appease a fading tradition of Jackson playing second fiddle to these schools.
They have their identities and we have ours.


Best of luck to those involved in the OGO Vs. NGO debate

Mr. Jim Hardy, I didn't name myself I Am Jackson....I was given it.


.......Boom Outta Here
 
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Hum... Can I assume it's a given name? If so, sorry for making it an issue.

How about "We are Jackson"? Even we "OGO" types don't want the school system or community to fail. I figure we just have different outlooks as to what's needed.
 
The old guard did more with less.

Also wanted to add that the "New Guard" doesn't necessarily mean younger. There are many people in my neck of the woods who have moved into jackson from outside the area, like akron, who commute and have no idea what it was like 20 years ago. They don't realize how good we had it.
 
polar_purple said:
If I had any ideas....I'd be running for state legislator and would likely win!!! And glad to have you join our forum. Good to see you here.

And yes - I'd rather have the local control. We see what happens when government takes control of things at the local level. Not usually a pretty sight.
---

As far as I go - I want to see what's best for Jackson, as I've been a member of this community for nearly 40 years. That would be long enough to remember:

~ when Belden Village was built (the kids LOVED those giant dirt piles!)
~ when The Strip was still a gravel pit and the hill on Portage was MUCH higher going by it
~ when Strausser Road looked like it was the victim of a bombing run
~ when Wales Square still belonged to Jackson and Best Products was the anchor of it
~ when Piggly Wiggly and Krogers and McArdle's IGA were members of our community
~ when JHS was still on Mudbrook
~ when our police force was born with (not joking) flesh-toned and brown cruisers
~ when Sohio was there instead of Family Video
~ when Monty's was the place to hang out after school
~ when the one room school house housed the Jackson Journal - and later "The Dairy Cup" and was still on Wales!
~ when Fulton Road was only two lanes through Lake Cable....and that was plenty
~ when you could drive on Mt. Pleasant from Highmill to North Canton without making a turn (granted this was a good thing - it's nice to see CAK grow)
~ when Sauder was a junior high school

The point is not to lament changes to our township, but to sit back and realize where we were, what mistakes we've made and to not repeat them, and what successes we've had and how to build on them. If we refuse to remember our history & blindly look at just the present, sometimes we don't see the big picture of what Jackson is.

PS to "I am Jackson" - you DO have a dog in this fight if you grew up here, live here now, or work here.
Click to expand...

Wow....your list brings back a lot of memories. Speaking of Monty's- anyone else recall how he used to lock the front door to his store when he went out to pump gas so that the teenagers from the high school wouldn't steal stuff from his store? I always thought that was funny when I was little and we went there with Mom to buy plants for our garden every spring.

Also, you forgot to list Rice's Pharmacy. Remember the lunch counter/soda shop thing they had there where you could order breakfast, lunch or ice cream treats? I loved going there with my friend from Lake Cable and her Dad on Saturdays for ice cream sundaes/cones, etc. I miss that place. :(

I agree with your "middle guard" thing too. I've lived in Jackson since 1968, and I agree with points on both sides.
 
I have one word and it is Evolving!!! That is what this community is doing. I have heard stories about the what once where GlenMor now stands or the old Frank Farm. Nothing stays the same that is why we have memories. And always remember no matter if you are Old Guard or New Guard....

WE ARE ALL JACKSON!!!

Go Bears!!!
 
I think it's foolhardy not to be worried about how people perceive the extravagance of the addition to the high school, especially considering the state of the economy at this time. Haschak and her cronies should have been more conservative with their spending - this "in your face, we don't care what you think - we are Jackson" mentality obviously didn't fly because look how long it took them to pass this levy.

These people were irresponsible and out-of-touch with what's truly important, which is the academics and even the sports and other extra-curriculars. They could have made do with less of a building and focused on the academics and sports, music, etc. - then maybe people would have been more willing to pass the levy sooner.

Also, Haschak and company has a P.R. problem because many parents feel they can be condescending and even rude, and not providing answers to various question or concerns.
 
I support the Kids

Hometeam said:
I think it's foolhardy not to be worried about how people perceive the extravagance of the addition to the high school, especially considering the state of the economy at this time. Haschak and her cronies should have been more conservative with their spending - this "in your face, we don't care what you think - we are Jackson" mentality obviously didn't fly because look how long it took them to pass this levy.
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Bottom line is that it did pass.

Hometeam said:
These people were irresponsible and out-of-touch with what's truly important, which is the academics and even the sports and other extra-curriculars. They could have made do with less of a building and focused on the academics and sports, music, etc. - then maybe people would have been more willing to pass the levy sooner.
Click to expand...

If you recall there was a faction of the community that blamed it on the sports and felt on the academic side they offered to much.

Hometeam said:
Also, Haschak and company has a P.R. problem because many parents feel they can be condescending and even rude, and not providing answers to various question or concerns.
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I agree with that statement. Many people said they would vote NO until she was gone. But then you started to hear people say they will vote NO based on the next Super. Times do change and some do not like it. For example you still have some people who do not like The "Q". Well this is what is like today in the NBA and they want the past its not going to happen.
 
Darksider_99 said:
Bottom line is that it did pass.



If you recall there was a faction of the community that blamed it on the sports and felt on the academic side they offered to much.



I agree with that statement. Many people said they would vote NO until she was gone. But then you started to hear people say they will vote NO based on the next Super. Times do change and some do not like it. For example you still have some people who do not like The "Q". Well this is what is like today in the NBA and they want the past its not going to happen.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I support the kids, also.

I never heard of the faction that blamed it on sports and too much academics; I just heard the complaints about the lavish spending by Haschak and Company and their attitudes in general toward the parents.

I don't think people are resistant to change - they just want the right kind of change. People didn't trust Haschak and the BOE. But now that the buildings have already been built and the levy passed, time to move on and this time around, make sure it's really all for the kids rather than trying to outdo our neighboring school districts by saying "my h.s. is bigger than YOUR h.s." and other such superficial nonsense. I'd rather see the money go into supporting our teachers and the kids.
 
Darksider_99 said:
Agreed. But on a side note have you seen the size of the schools they are building in Columbus. College Campus comes to mind.
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Columbus is such a big city (and I would think economically it's in better shape than Stark County) - I'm sure there's a LOT of kids going to this one school. Also, it's different if people trust the school administrators; maybe the administrators have a good rapport with the parents. Jackson Twsp. administrators certainly did not.
 
I've heard plenty about the distrust and distaste of the current administration. However, given the weakness of the BOE, the only option is to wait for Haschak to retire in a bit over a year. Hopefully, the BOE will opt to actually look for an administrator that's qualified instead of an insider.
 
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