Matches at private courses

 
As someone that had a private course as my home course in high school, it IS a huge advantage (if your team is good AND you have a solid amount of availability to play that course yourself...my team did NOT, so the advantage was minimal). On the flip side, allowing high school kids to play at these private courses exposes a LOT of kids to golf courses they otherwise would NEVER have a chance to play. Growing up in my hometown, i didn't even know our home course existed until freshman tryouts...now, it is one of my favorite courses.

Does it suck if you are competing with that team for a league title...obviously it does, but...YOU should have an advantage at YOUR course too, even if it is public, you play it every day and they don't, so you SHOULD have an upper hand on the opposition when they travel to your course.

Ultimately, let's be realistic, MOST high school golfers won't play in college and are playing in high school because they enjoy the game and/or want to be with their buddies. If they enjoy the game...playing exclusive courses IS a perk...it is all in the perspective. Look at it as "you GET to play an AWESOME golf course" and appreciate that opportunity.
 
brownbuckeye said:
As someone that had a private course as my home course in high school, it IS a huge advantage (if your team is good AND you have a solid amount of availability to play that course yourself...my team did NOT, so the advantage was minimal). On the flip side, allowing high school kids to play at these private courses exposes a LOT of kids to golf courses they otherwise would NEVER have a chance to play. Growing up in my hometown, i didn't even know our home course existed until freshman tryouts...now, it is one of my favorite courses.

Does it suck if you are competing with that team for a league title...obviously it does, but...YOU should have an advantage at YOUR course too, even if it is public, you play it every day and they don't, so you SHOULD have an upper hand on the opposition when they travel to your course.

Ultimately, let's be realistic, MOST high school golfers won't play in college and are playing in high school because they enjoy the game and/or want to be with their buddies. If they enjoy the game...playing exclusive courses IS a perk...it is all in the perspective. Look at it as "you GET to play an AWESOME golf course" and appreciate that opportunity.
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Thanks for this perspective. Its good to think about both sides. I was being too literal i guess, public schools = public courses....but with that Perspective....it is ultimately tit for tat.
 
Why do you feel it’s inappropriate? It’s harder than ever for teams to get access to courses to play- if a private club is willing to allow them on the course, why would that be an issue?
 
Tryouts were held at one, many kids had never had opportunity to play course. If you have played golf, knowing the course could be an advantage.
 
Kballer said:
Why do you feel it’s inappropriate? It’s harder than ever for teams to get access to courses to play- if a private club is willing to allow them on the course, why would that be an issue?
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I agree with this. Many courses in SW Ohio have early evening Legues during the week. Those guys and gals obviously spend more than the HS kids and there is a lot more of them.
 
Therump said:
Tryouts were held at one, many kids had never had opportunity to play course. If you have played golf, knowing the course could be an advantage.
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Ok you said matches as in competitive play against other teams- having tryouts at a private club is definitely a difference deal. Though our golfer had tryouts at a private club due to scheduling a couple of times, it was for varsity only (kids who had been on the JV prior) and the coach was able to have “play” days prior to tryouts. It’s nearly impossible to get on public courses these days so you have to take what you can get. Kids have to miss classes for conference and OHSAA tourneys as this is only way to get tee times
 
Both matches and tourneys, etc...to your point on public courses.....i can get a tee time at any public course in the 50 mile radius, except evenings....which makes sense.
 
Well in football I never got to practice on the opponents field, in basketball I never practiced in the opponents gym, and the same with baseball. Guess what life isn’t fair, work hard, do the right things and u might get the opportunity to join that private club or be a part of a company that has access too it.
 
GrizzlyDad said:
Well in football I never got to practice on the opponents field, in basketball I never practiced in the opponents gym, and the same with baseball. Guess what life isn’t fair, work hard, do the right things and u might get the opportunity to join that private club or be a part of a company that has access too it.
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This is just a dumb statement. Golf is one of, if not THE ONLY sport where home field advantage is so glaring (maybe cross country courses, maybe bowling alleys due to oil patterns).

Football fields, basketball courts, soccer fields, tennis courts, even baseball/softball fields for the most part...they are the same size no matter where you play. Yes...the surfaces may be different, baseball/softball fields may have different fence dimensions, and they will all have their own "quirks" but in general, they offer as even a playing field as possible

There is a reason that the OHSAA FINALLY tried to move teams that have a Sectional tournament hosted by their home course OUT of that Sectional...it is a HUGE advantage. If you put a kid on a golf course that they have never seen and they are playing against others, of similar ability, that play it every day...who would you expect to come out on top? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.
 
brownbuckeye said:
This is just a dumb statement. Golf is one of, if not THE ONLY sport where home field advantage is so glaring (maybe cross country courses, maybe bowling alleys due to oil patterns).

Football fields, basketball courts, soccer fields, tennis courts, even baseball/softball fields for the most part...they are the same size no matter where you play. Yes...the surfaces may be different, baseball/softball fields may have different fence dimensions, and they will all have their own "quirks" but in general, they offer as even a playing field as possible

There is a reason that the OHSAA FINALLY tried to move teams that have a Sectional tournament hosted by their home course OUT of that Sectional...it is a HUGE advantage. If you put a kid on a golf course that they have never seen and they are playing against others, of similar ability, that play it every day...who would you expect to come out on top? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.
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Tournament and regular season are two different things, if you can’t afford to belong to a private club that’s your fault not the people that are members
 
GrizzlyDad said:
Well in football I never got to practice on the opponents field, in basketball I never practiced in the opponents gym, and the same with baseball. Guess what life isn’t fair, work hard, do the right things and u might get the opportunity to join that private club or be a part of a company that has access too it.
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Funny, a simpleton would assume I am seeking access.
 
So...a high school kid should be at a disadvantage because his parents aren't wealthy? Spoken like a true silver spooner!

You play football...you practice on a field that is the same size as the elite kids do...maybe not as nice, but come game time, you know exactly what to expect.

You play basketball, again...you practice on a court the same size with hoops the same height...again, maybe not as nice as the private schools have...but, come game time you know what to expect.

You play golf...you play a COMPLETELY dufferent course...you DON'T know what to expect. So...hold that inner city kid accountable for the fact that he came from less than the rich kid and set it up so the rich kids win again.
 
brownbuckeye said:
So...a high school kid should be at a disadvantage because his parents aren't wealthy? Spoken like a true silver spooner!

You play football...you practice on a field that is the same size as the elite kids do...maybe not as nice, but come game time, you know exactly what to expect.

You play basketball, again...you practice on a court the same size with hoops the same height...again, maybe not as nice as the private schools have...but, come game time you know what to expect.

You play golf...you play a COMPLETELY dufferent course...you DON'T know what to expect. So...hold that inner city kid accountable for the fact that he came from less than the rich kid and set it up so the rich
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brownbuckeye said:
So...a high school kid should be at a disadvantage because his parents aren't wealthy? Spoken like a true silver spooner!

You play football...you practice on a field that is the same size as the elite kids do...maybe not as nice, but come game time, you know exactly what to expect.

You play basketball, again...you practice on a court the same size with hoops the same height...again, maybe not as nice as the private schools have...but, come game time you know what to expect.

You play golf...you play a COMPLETELY dufferent course...you DON'T know what to expect. So...hold that inner city kid accountable for the fact that he came from less than the rich kid and set it up so the rich kids win again.
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I have a feeling this is just the way he wants it....to give his offspring a better chance.
 
brownbuckeye said:
So...a high school kid should be at a disadvantage because his parents aren't wealthy? Spoken like a true silver spooner!

You play football...you practice on a field that is the same size as the elite kids do...maybe not as nice, but come game time, you know exactly what to expect.

You play basketball, again...you practice on a court the same size with hoops the same height...again, maybe not as nice as the private schools have...but, come game time you know what to expect.

You play golf...you play a COMPLETELY dufferent course...you DON'T know what to expect. So...hold that inner city kid accountable for the fact that he came from less than the rich kid and set it up so the rich kids win again.
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Well, I can play 10 different public golf courses and they will all be completely different too.
 
winbypin said:
Well, I can play 10 different public golf courses and they will all be completely different too.
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While in high school, i knew which public courses i would play each year and would travel to them and pay to play them throughout the summer. If i tried to do the same at the private courses, i would have been turned away.

Saying that the courses will all be different makes no difference...so long as those competing on them have some form of access to them.

Golf is a completely different animal from almost all other sports because it is played at a facility that is not owned or operated by the schools that play there. The OHSAA tournaments SHOULD be played at public courses to even the playing field as much as possible.

Holding in season toutnaments at private clubs is all about experiencing what the state has to offer in terms of golf courses, both public and private. These tournaments have no bearing on qualifying for district and/or state tournaments...they are entered by coaches/athletic directors knowing full well that their players likely have not seen or played the courses, but that want to give them access to great courses.
 
brownbuckeye said:
While in high school, i knew which public courses i would play each year and would travel to them and pay to play them throughout the summer. If i tried to do the same at the private courses, i would have been turned away.

Saying that the courses will all be different makes no difference...so long as those competing on them have some form of access to them.

Golf is a completely different animal from almost all other sports because it is played at a facility that is not owned or operated by the schools that play there. The OHSAA tournaments SHOULD be played at public courses to even the playing field as much as possible.

Holding in season toutnaments at private clubs is all about experiencing what the state has to offer in terms of golf courses, both public and private. These tournaments have no bearing on qualifying for district and/or state tournaments...they are entered by coaches/athletic directors knowing full well that their players likely have not seen or played the courses, but that want to give them access to great courses.
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So were you one of those inner city, not rich kids you were trying to stick up for? If you had the means to travel around the area all summer and pay to play on those courses I doubt it.

Every sport encounters different aspects of venues they play on ever year. Going from natural grass to turf is pretty big in soccer and football. Not all basketball courts are the same size. And when basketball gets to playing on college courts they have to deal with a different perspective when shooting on those hoops.

If I am not mistaken, don't the courses offer practice rounds during the OHSAA tournament? Maybe the day before the tournament starts?
 
Good, i apologize, your comments seemed to reflect someone with little knowledge of golf. When you are playing a course for the first time, do you shoot your best scores?
 
Therump said:
Good, i apologize, your comments seemed to reflect someone with little knowledge of golf. When you are playing a course for the first time, do you shoot your best scores?
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Honestly, it just depends how I am hitting at the time. My absolute best score was last summer at a course I hadn't played in almost 30 years. And some of my worst scores are at courses I play frequently.
 
Yes, understable. Sometimes it comes down to pure ball striking, if ya got that day, ya got it. In golf the "field of play" is always different, the more knowledge you have the more prepared you can be for the "field". My point, with plenty of public courses around, competitive matches should be at courses with public access, for equal opportunity of that knowledge. Other sports the "field of play" is considerably regulated because of this.
 
Therump said:
Yes, understable. Sometimes it comes down to pure ball striking, if ya got that day, ya got it. In golf the "field of play" is always different, the more knowledge you have the more prepared you can be for the "field". My point, with plenty of public courses around, competitive matches should be at courses with public access, for equal opportunity of that knowledge. Other sports the "field of play" is considerably regulated because of this.
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There aren't really "plenty" of public courses around though. Several closed in Dayton area the past 3-4 years. Many just don't have openings when HS kids can get on the course due to school schedules. Most courses are full with leagues in the evenings as it is. Some of the private courses look like they have available time in the evenings however.

And you're assuming the kids will actually take the time to go to the public courses to practice anyway. Seems like the teams just have their practice rounds at their home course until it gets to the post season. Some kids I know that play in college now, their parents would take them to the courses where they would be playing sectionals, district, state ahead of time. I don't know if all parents would/can do that for their kids. One of those kids qualified for state last year and there was a designated day for practice rounds(s) for the qualifiers at state. Maybe even districts.

I understand what you're saying. It can be an uphill battle on an unfamiliar course. I feel the better players can absorb that a little better for sure than maybe the average golfers. It seems the better players are likely playing different courses already and just playing more frequently in general. Do you know if the coaches have tried to get access to the private course for a practice round and were denied? Again, the private courses usually have more down times and less play in general...by design. Have the coaches tried to work them in somewhere to prep for a match? I know in other sports the HS coach has worked with local colleges to get them access to a similar environment to what they will be facing in the tournament. Not apples to apples but my point is sometimes where there is a will there is a way.

One thing I think you're overlooking is the fact that you could play the same public course 3 days straight. Pin placement, tee location, course condition, and even the weather/time of day all are factors that will change how players approach the same course from match to match. We see this on the pro tour all the time.
 
There have been some closures, but access to public courses is as easier than 20 years ago. ( Apps, online booking). We are a golf family, so we are the parents you are talking about. We love golf, and travel to as many courses as we can. We take our golfers to the courses they will be playing. Everyone reading this knows why. The speed and slope of greens and hazard locations are as important as first down markers. Im sure you know all this. If able to (financially) a competitive golfer wants too. But even for the opposing team coming in, to compete at a course that the majority golfers cant access seems a lil weird. Good point about the changes in pins, You and others on this board did help me realize it is an opportunity for them to play an exclusive course. As i remember my only times on Piqua CC was during those times .
 
Therump said:
There have been some closures, but access to public courses is as easier than 20 years ago. ( Apps, online booking). We are a golf family, so we are the parents you are talking about. We love golf, and travel to as many courses as we can. We take our golfers to the courses they will be playing. Everyone reading this knows why. The speed and slope of greens and hazard locations are as important as first down markers. Im sure you know all this. If able to (financially) a competitive golfer wants too. But even for the opposing team coming in, to compete at a course that the majority golfers cant access seems a lil weird. Good point about the changes in pins, You and others on this board did help me realize it is an opportunity for them to play an exclusive course. As i remember my only times on Piqua CC was during those times .
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Never had a chance to play Piqua. Definitely will jump at any chance I can get to play there.
 
As someone who has actually coached a golf team, I assure you that the primary reason a golf match or tourney is held at a private course is because they can. Trying to get a block of tee times on a public course has become almost impossible. While a private club limits the number of golfers who can play there a public course has no such restrictions plus a public course is often open 7 days a week where a private course “closes” on Mondays but can often still be used for HS teams (and outings)
 
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