Mason football: the overall program?

S

Skoalbandito

Member
It was suggested that a thread on the school forum for yappi would be a better place for an honest conversation to take place about the Mason football program, direction, issues and concerns and other things. SWMCinci has over 14,000 posts on yappi, so he obviously has some background knowledge. He followed the program through the Sedmak years and Castner's first year or two, but no longer follows it as close. There are a pretty wide variety of opinions of how the overall program is doing. Not even sure if this forum gets much attention, but I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread here in the hope that mostly Mason followers can share their thoughts. Like I stated in the other threads, I have a son in the middle school program and am concerned about some of the things I've heard and seen. I'm also fairly new to Mason, so I don't have the background history of a lot of things. Curious to hear more about people's experiences with a program that seems to struggle to consistently do as well as most other sports at the high school.
 
 
I'm hoping you can get this gen'ed up, it has been a while since there were decent and thoughtful conversations on Mason Football that didn't get co-opted or just turn into an anti-this or anti-that rant.

I can tell you that the parents in Mason are incredibly involved (good and bad). I coached for several years in the youth program and started to get involved with the touchdown club as my son hit 7th grade. I encourage you to get involved in the program because you can get a pretty balanced look at how and why things work like they do.
 
Skoal, the overall health of the football program is good. If it was so bad the workouts would not be as well attended as they are! Are there bumps? Of course. A football program the size of Masons is bound to have some malcontents. I've come to realize Coach Castner is correct when he talks about the 10-80-10 rule. You're going to have 10% who believe and will work hard to achieve any goal. These are your leaders and they're passionate about what they do. You have 80% who just go along for the ride and lack the passion but like what they are doing. You then have the bottom 10%. The whiners, complainers and blamers. It's never their fault and they're getting screwed. Usually these are the most vocal and demand the most attention. These are also the people who are usually always right! Brian Castner is neither a saint or a devil. He's a football coach. You may not always like him but in the end it doesn't matter.
 
I have been around since 2004 on this site and seen Mason go from a good big D2 school in the FAVC to a pathetic, huge D1 school when they entered the GMC. Now, they have finished in top half of the GMC every year but 1 since Castner has taken over. That is a fact, records speak for themselves. Also, another thing that I think speaks volumes of what is finally starting to show progress are the lack of kids leaving Mason to go to private schools. I can't think of a single kid who decided to go to the GCL who has had a significant contribution.

But I know your fear is in with the constant coaching turnover which I agree is a big deal. I have heard it is because he asks way too much of his coaches even the volunteers which are a lot of the coaching changes. People take half contracts so Mason can have more coaches which equates to like $1000 for a whole season after taxes. You can find the coaches pay on Masons School website.

In the end, your kid is in the right spot for academics and many other reasons to be at Mason. If football is your kids only focus I feel like that may be part of your issue. Too many parents in Mason thing their kids are D1 athletes and spend thousands on private instruction to try and make this happen. I have heard parents call it an investment into free college tuition. But they don't realize a small percentage of players get D1 scholarships, you have to be exceptional and no matter where you play that scholarship will be there. Mason just has many other programs and classes that add value to your STUDENT athlete.
 
I appreciate the feedback from each of you. My kid is probably like most middle school kids, just likes playing sports, is pretty good at football and baseball. Maybe he'll continue to develop; maybe he'll decide to do other things. He even has expressed interest in running track too, as the boys & girls track programs sure seem to excel. I don't have any delusions about the college hopes like you mention. I'm not one of those over-involved dads pushing his kid to the limits. Just would like to see him have as many opportunities to be a part of something bigger than himself so that he gets those valuable life lessons by playing sports. Just would like to see him continue to participate in maybe two sports. I have heard that football at the high school level is more than simply a big time commitment for these kids, it's a massive time commitment and many wind up focusing only on football. Due to the off-season workouts. I get the need for strength; just not so sure it should take priority over other sports. Then again, he's only in middle school, so yes, a lot can change. If the head coach expects too much of a time commitment from his assistants, enough that a large number say see you, then I'd have to think the time commitment expected from the players is similar? And no, I don't need the lecture about being a champion, or building greatness, that I've heard him speak about at banquets and parents meetings recently. Just keep it in it's proper perspective is all I ask. I'm hearing conflicting reports on that. thanks again for offering your thoughts.
 
Skoalbandito said:
I appreciate the feedback from each of you. My kid is probably like most middle school kids, just likes playing sports, is pretty good at football and baseball. Maybe he'll continue to develop; maybe he'll decide to do other things. He even has expressed interest in running track too, as the boys & girls track programs sure seem to excel. I don't have any delusions about the college hopes like you mention. I'm not one of those over-involved dads pushing his kid to the limits. Just would like to see him have as many opportunities to be a part of something bigger than himself so that he gets those valuable life lessons by playing sports. Just would like to see him continue to participate in maybe two sports. I have heard that football at the high school level is more than simply a big time commitment for these kids, it's a massive time commitment and many wind up focusing only on football. Due to the off-season workouts. I get the need for strength; just not so sure it should take priority over other sports. Then again, he's only in middle school, so yes, a lot can change. If the head coach expects too much of a time commitment from his assistants, enough that a large number say see you, then I'd have to think the time commitment expected from the players is similar? And no, I don't need the lecture about being a champion, or building greatness, that I've heard him speak about at banquets and parents meetings recently. Just keep it in it's proper perspective is all I ask. I'm hearing conflicting reports on that. thanks again for offering your thoughts.
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If your son is willing, he should play every sport possible at Mason. Football is the one sport you listed that doesn't cut. Track you can participate just like football but may not be on the varsity. All sports at Mason require a ton of dedication but I think there are far too few multi sport athletes at Mason. Their are football players who should wrestlers and vice versa. There are basketball players who could help the football team. There are soccer players that could probably kick in the NCAA. But at Mason kids generally get fixated on one sport.

All that rah rah from Castner is just trying to motivate a crowd and yeah it gets old after hearing it for 5 years because it is the same thing every time. But like SMWCinci stated if you question you should get involved with the Touchdown Club you really see how things are going.
 
Actually, if you look at the stats for football, there may be too many multi-sport athletes...... The GMC used to provide stats on athletic participation and 80% of the Mason football team played other sports. That was above every other school but Middletown and Hamilton - Colerain was like 25%. Most of the GMC multi-sport athletes participated in sports that reflected their football talents like track or wrestling, in Mason there were those but a lot of baseball, basketball and lacrosse as well.
 
eastside_purple said:
Multi-sport athletes is a good thing.
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I agree eastside, but apparently this head coach has gained a reputation of trying to persuade some of the kids from participating in track. Telling them that football workouts take priority. Was told he often tells kids they are expected to be at football workouts even though track pre-season workouts are going on right now and track is the next sport up for some. This has been consistent for the time we've been in Mason so far. I was told from the track coach directly that this has been an ongoing issue.
 
ALL coaches tell the kids that they should concentrate on one sport. At least a couple of years ago, most of the varsity baseball players played baseball only. They play spring ball, fall ball, winter ball, and with a club team after the HS season. I don't think that has changed.

When we 1st moved to Mason, when the Comets were still in the FAVC, the kids did what most of us did as kids. Football in Fall, basketball in the Winter, and track or baseball in the Spring. You are right, multi-sport athletes is where school sports should be.

With the 3 head coaches I dealt with in Mason, while there was a push for year-round workouts, I can tell you that none of the 3 had serious problems with multi-sport athletes. Coach Castner had no problem with my son wrestling or running track or playing baseball. It was just a question of if he was getting in the right amount of workouts and if there were no games/matches or other sport workouts, my son did the regular football schedule.
 
Skoal, part of the problem with track is it cuts into so many areas of football. Beginning in March and running through April football has their 5:00 AM workouts. These workouts include competitions and team building exercises. They usuall go four days a week. Coaches use these to evaluate talent as well as a kids physical and mental makeup. If a boy is participating in track he misses this entire period. This puts him and the coaches at a disadvantage as far as what he brings to the table.

Having said this, I've never heard Coach Castner discourage participation in other sports. In fact he's actually encouraged kids to wrestle and play basketball. I could see though where the timing of track might be a problem.
 
Here is some information that should not be overlooked by Mason Football folks

1. Mason runs a WingT Offense. Why is a school like Mason running a gimic offense? This is an amateur move. Mason should be running a spread offense with the QBs they have up and coming. I am guessing Mason lost one of the best 8th grade QBs in the City that was in their youth program because of this offense.

2. Mason needs to be doing more to promote their football program. They have some of the nicest facilities in the state. They should be able to battle Moeller and St.X for players.

3. Mason needs to go hire an elite coach. Mason should be grabbing Pat McClaughlin from Reading. He is one of the best Coaches in the City because he knows how to develop talent and put together gameplans.
 
College#19 said:
Here is some information that should not be overlooked by Mason Football folks

1. Mason runs a WingT Offense. Why is a school like Mason running a gimic offense? This is an amateur move. Mason should be running a spread offense with the QBs they have up and coming. I am guessing Mason lost one of the best 8th grade QBs in the City that was in their youth program because of this offense.

2. Mason needs to be doing more to promote their football program. They have some of the nicest facilities in the state. They should be able to battle Moeller and St.X for players.

3. Mason needs to go hire an elite coach. Mason should be grabbing Pat McClaughlin from Reading. He is one of the best Coaches in the City because he knows how to develop talent and put together gameplans.
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How is the Wing-T a gimmick (sp btw) offense?
 
College#19 said:
Here is some information that should not be overlooked by Mason Football folks

1. Mason runs a WingT Offense. Why is a school like Mason running a gimic offense? This is an amateur move. Mason should be running a spread offense with the QBs they have up and coming. I am guessing Mason lost one of the best 8th grade QBs in the City that was in their youth program because of this offense.

2. Mason needs to be doing more to promote their football program. They have some of the nicest facilities in the state. They should be able to battle Moeller and St.X for players.

3. Mason needs to go hire an elite coach. Mason should be grabbing Pat McClaughlin from Reading. He is one of the best Coaches in the City because he knows how to develop talent and put together gameplans.
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Yeah, I wish I had a dollar for every one of the 8th grade phenoms who was going to turn the local high school scene on its head. I watched him in a few games this year and didn't come away impressed. Just because Daddy says it doesn't necessarily make it so.

I'd also venture to guess preparing for Colerain, the Lakotas and Sycamore week in and week out is a bit different than Taylor, Deer Park and Finneytown.
 
DaPope said:
How is the Wing-T a gimmick (sp btw) offense?
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Because Football has evolved well past this dinasour offense. Stop the Bucksweep and you will stop the WingT offense. Most of the high schools that use it today is because they don't have the lineman that can block, but Mason can get get linemen. The WingT requires perfect execution, otherwise you are totally out of luck. And you are completely screwed in 3rd and long situations. And at the end of the day kids with possible major talent don't want to play in this offense thus another reason why Mason loses so many kids to the private schools. Even the coaching staff at Fenwick has figured this out which is why they are dropping the WingT.
 
College#19 said:
Because Football has evolved well past this dinasour offense. Stop the Bucksweep and you will stop the WingT offense. Most of the high schools that use it today is because they don't have the lineman that can block, but Mason can get get linemen. The WingT requires perfect execution, otherwise you are totally out of luck. And you are completely screwed in 3rd and long situations. And at the end of the day kids with possible major talent don't want to play in this offense thus another reason why Mason loses so many kids to the private schools. Even the coaching staff at Fenwick has figured this out which is why they are dropping the WingT.
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If you look at the teams in the GMC a great many of them are ball control offenses. They may not run the WingT but are not geared to the pass. The unsuccessful ones are the ones who throw 20+ times a game. I may not love the WingT but its basically just a possession offense. I also don't believe Mason has lost "major talent" as of late. In actuality the kids leaving has been far and few between. This eighth grade class is the first in a while to have a large group going elsewhere. I think this is due to many of the parents thinking their kids walk on water. I've been in the stands and heard the talk. A great deal can change within this next four years!
 
I would say look at St.X and Moeller roster and there are lots of Mason kids on their rosters. I also would tell you the top two QB prospects in the 8th grade that played at Mason are heading elsewhere. I have no issue with ball control offense but run a power spread or open up the wingT to resemble more what a school like Auburn does using read option. Mason has the talent in the current 9th and 10th grade classes to win playoff games, but the offense is going to be their reason for losing games they could win. I am also going to say this, there is a ceiling with the WingT, you can only do so much at the major high school level. Let me also state this, Colerain can run the triple option because Colerain has the athletes to run the triple option. Mason does not have Colerain type speed on their team. Maybe after the much hyped classes of 2018 and 2019 graduate without making major runs in the playoffs Mason will realize they need to make a change.
 
Just to put it out there the current freshman and sophomores have been deemed not coach-able because of their high and mighty attitudes. They have no concept of team play.
 
College#19 said:
I would say look at St.X and Moeller roster and there are lots of Mason kids on their rosters. I also would tell you the top two QB prospects in the 8th grade that played at Mason are heading elsewhere. I have no issue with ball control offense but run a power spread or open up the wingT to resemble more what a school like Auburn does using read option. Mason has the talent in the current 9th and 10th grade classes to win playoff games, but the offense is going to be their reason for losing games they could win. I am also going to say this, there is a ceiling with the WingT, you can only do so much at the major high school level. Let me also state this, Colerain can run the triple option because Colerain has the athletes to run the triple option. Mason does not have Colerain type speed on their team. Maybe after the much hyped classes of 2018 and 2019 graduate without making major runs in the playoffs Mason will realize they need to make a change.
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This is where I call BS because you have zero clue what you are talking about. Please name a single player that has went to St. X or Moeller that has left in the last 6 years and has actually made a contribution? I am sure you can name a bunch of kids who will be starters on a GCL JV team as a junior, but there really hasn't been a player who has been on varsity for a GCL school. There hasn't been 1. One could argue Mason has had more kids come into the program from the GCL schools than that have left. There is this perception that Mason has all this talent or should have all this talent, but that comes from the inflated value of middle school sports.

Every year there is a class that is unbelievably talented. The current junior class in my opinion is the most talented class I have seen in years, but that is my opinion. Regardless if both QBs leave thats because they know they wouldn't start as a sophomore and one of them ultimately would be a back up. Same could be said about Jake Harris who was pinned as the future Mason QB as a 7th grader. Funny thing if he doesn't find a new position he won't take a varsity snap until he is a senior. Kids mature, kids grow, kids move in and out. The delusional thought that middle school success equals high school success is insane.

As far as the Wing T goes, its a simple ball control offense that doesn't require much speed. You just mentioned that Mason doesn't have talent so really they should run an offense that caters to them. And honestly once Lamotte went down last year it was obvious that Mason has 0 varsity receivers. They had to convert DBs to offense. I think the offense was a great choice regarding personnel. Doesn't matter how good a QB is if there are no receivers to catch the ball. And really a ceiling to the Wing T? There is at least a team running the Wing T come championship weekend every year.
 
I am not going to list kids names in high school by their specific names, just not the right thing to do. But you are either in denial or just plain out of the loop if you don't know which kids from Mason are starting or very high on the depth chart at St.X and Moeller. Labeling kids as uncoachable is ridiculous, maybe it is just a coach that is letting parents play politics which sadly goes on way too much at a school like Mason for all sports. Guarantee Mason competes with GCL teams with a better coach who would be running a better offense.
 
I would point out that Mason didn't win much in the GMC until they went to the Wing T. Not saying what anyone said is absolutely false, just pointing out a little truth.
 
College#19 said:
I am not going to list kids names in high school by their specific names, just not the right thing to do. But you are either in denial or just plain out of the loop if you don't know which kids from Mason are starting or very high on the depth chart at St.X and Moeller. Labeling kids as uncoachable is ridiculous, maybe it is just a coach that is letting parents play politics which sadly goes on way too much at a school like Mason for all sports. Guarantee Mason competes with GCL teams with a better coach who would be running a better offense.
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I mean nothing against any of the kids that left they have to do what they think is best for their families. But I stand by my statement. I should clarify I am only thinking about kids who went to and played football for Mason through 8th grade. If a kid went to a private school before 8th grade that is clearly a family decision to send their kids to a private school for their reasons. I am talking about the kids who leave public schools to go to private schools for athletics as the reason.
 
College#19 said:
I am not going to list kids names in high school by their specific names, just not the right thing to do. But you are either in denial or just plain out of the loop if you don't know which kids from Mason are starting or very high on the depth chart at St.X and Moeller. Labeling kids as uncoachable is ridiculous, maybe it is just a coach that is letting parents play politics which sadly goes on way too much at a school like Mason for all sports. Guarantee Mason competes with GCL teams with a better coach who would be running a better offense.
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There are no kids from the past three years who left Masons program and are making an impact at Moe or X,..period. A handful of players have gone to X but with only moderate success at the JV level and no impact on varsity. There may have been kids who came up through St. Sue's and then went to a Parochial but then that is to be expected. Can't lose what you didn't have! Like I said, I watched both 8th grade QB's at Mason this year and did not come away impressed. They get to Moe or X and they'll realize those coaches won't know or care what they did in 8th grade. Hard truth.
 
Comets Fan said:
Just to put it out there the current freshman and sophomores have been deemed not coach-able because of their high and mighty attitudes. They have no concept of team play.
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So, I need to verify this. Mason last year had a roster of 121 boys. 33 of these were seniors and 40 were juniors. That's 73 upperclassmen out of 121. 73 coachable boys out of 121 should be enough to fill a varsity roster I would think. That leaves 48 boys who you say the coaches told you were not coachable. Well then tell me, with 73 coachable upperclassmen how did 8 uncoachable sophomores earn their varsity letters and on a playoff team at that?? Let me enlighten you. Many if not all ran special teams plus one was a starter. A majority of those remaining 7 were at least #2 on the depth chart at their respective positions. So where were all of the remaining coachable juniors and seniors among those 73? Sounds like the Class of 2018 was very coachable despite your assertions! It also sounds like that axe of yours is about down to a nub.
 
Nb

OK Mason fans, what's the deal with a student athlete transferring from Mason to Moeller in the middle of a quarter this late in the year. Not going to mention any names but his initials are NB. Here he is a pretty good football player??
 
MoellerFan1 said:
OK Mason fans, what's the deal with a student athlete transferring from Mason to Moeller in the middle of a quarter this late in the year. Not going to mention any names but his initials are NB. Here he is a pretty good football player??
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If it's who I think it is, he didn't even play last year. He would probably would be no higher than JV this year given the load of running backs. He's okay but nothing fantastic.
 
MoellerFan1 said:
OK Mason fans, what's the deal with a student athlete transferring from Mason to Moeller in the middle of a quarter this late in the year. Not going to mention any names but his initials are NB. Here he is a pretty good football player??
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He is probably the number 3 RB in his class at Mason and possibly number 6 on the varsity depth chart. I would even put the best sophomore RB over him. That being said he could possibly be a great safety. He would probably have a shot as a varsity safety at Mason, but the safety position is next years biggest weakness in my opinion.
 
The Myth said:
He is probably the number 3 RB in his class at Mason and possibly number 6 on the varsity depth chart. I would even put the best sophomore RB over him. That being said he could possibly be a great safety. He would probably have a shot as a varsity safety at Mason, but the safety position is next years biggest weakness in my opinion.
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I know this kid, his family, and some about this situation. Personally, I don't think he ever got a fair shot since he played at St.Su grades 4-8. But I will admit the kids ahead of him on the depth chart are really good players. But from the first week he started playing at Mason there were issues. Looking back the family made a poor decision, the kid should of gone to StX or Moeller as a freshmen and he might not of because as most everyone sees this kid as a DB. He is one of the fastest kids in the city. His dad played D1 college football and was a DB. We will see what happens at Moeller. I got feeling he ends up playing DB at Moeller.
 
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