Where are most guys going to play? Can A2 continue to gain momentum after a great USAV? Will Op finally be competitive at the older ages? Can Attack add a few more pieces to 18’s and 17’s to be competitive nationally? What about the soon to be 15’s? Finished 11th @ AAU. Can they add a few new players?
Club 2022-2023
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Hobie1Kanobie
New member
A2 will only gain out of Columbus, the Dayton (West) isn't going to offer anything as they don't put effort into that area for some reason. OP will not compete at the upper ages due to lack of solid coaching...Attack needs to realize that the boys needs to be a team (family) to compete more nationally. The talent is there it just needs to be groomed and given some pieces that need to be added, and get rid of the showoffs...that think they are volleyball gods...
Sad to think A2 would not put more effort into Dayton area as they have some great high schools programs. Hopefully Op can add some more coaching depth.
Attack really has ever had the talent to compete nationally that I’m aware of? If so, what year? Going forward it will be even more difficult to compete nationally with the number of guys from the same high dropping to 3.
Attack really has ever had the talent to compete nationally that I’m aware of? If so, what year? Going forward it will be even more difficult to compete nationally with the number of guys from the same high dropping to 3.
Hobie1Kanobie
New member
Agreed, but if you combine 3 top from each school and have them as a team and not as individuals, you might be surprised. The only difference is that out west they play year around on the same teams (including high school) so the water down effect that we have here is going to hurt us nationally. The talent is there is just putting the right pieces together. Kind of like a brother hood.
Totally disagree, the top 8-10 Open teams in the country have rosters full of D1 signees. With at least one of those players becoming college All-Americans. Who from Ohio in the last 10 years is a college All-American? Let alone a full roster of players of this caliber.
Hobie1Kanobie
New member
I said compete not beat...I do realize that D-1/2 signees come out the west but at least here in Cincy they could compete. Unlike now when they are getting their butts kicked, All- Americans are not that plentiful it's just the athlete. They don't have full rosters of those All-Americans, most athletes are not playing volleyball. With only 1-4 partial scholarships out there the true jocks are still football and basketball. There aren't that many All-Americans (and I mean true All-Americans) playing this sport. Again those top 8-10 Open teams are playing together year around, but there are athletes here who can give them a run for their money and who aren't hotdogs but true athletes...
Thanks for the clarification. On my end, by All-American, I meant collegiate All-Americans.
When I think about the top 5, or even 10 best players from Ohio in the last 10 years. Only a few of them are collegiate D1 starters, and even fewer are collegiate All Americans. There are multiple open teams every year that field teams with as much talent as our state has produced over 10 years. That's more of my point
MatchPoint
Active member
Kind of off subject, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Jonah Gilbert goes on to be a collegiate All-American.
Whats the story on him? Did he redshirt? I ask, because he did not accrue any stats this past year. And on that note, the outsides on Grand Canyon that started in front of him have 2 and 3 years remaining at GC.
Use this year 18 Open @ AAU as an example for Attack They finish 4-6 and finished middle of the pack. Zero D1 commitments. You need 1-2 big time players nationally to compete at that level. Not sure what the showoff comment is referring to as most if not all seemed like good kids.
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First of all, it seems like you don't understand what an All-American is. There are AAs in every sport. And i'm not sure what a "true All-American" is for you, but the All Americans in NCAA D1/D2 are generally good enough athletes to have been successful in other sports if they had chosen that. Look at Tyler Mitchem - the dude is 6'11 and touching over 12 feet. You think he couldn't have been successful in basketball or some other sport?
And in regard to your other comment - the teams out west don't all play together year round. The best kids generally end up at the best clubs and it's a mix of schools. Ohio doesn't yet have the numbers to compete like that. For instance, having an all-Moeller club team doesn't help Cincinnati get stronger at a national level. It just helps Moeller.
There is also a trend of some of the best players choosing not to pursue volleyball in college (which is fine) which makes it look worse.
In 2021 Beckelhimer and Kastner could have played D1 somewhere. Maybe Buis as well. This year Maune could have had a shot, and maybe Coleman.
Hobie1Kanobie
New member
What I meant by true All-Americans is the fact that most athletes don't play volleyball (unfortunately) but rather play in more noticed sports. It is coming together finally, look at the soccer in this area or lacrosse it took years to be competitive at the national level. More programs and clubs will equal more talent being drawn away from other areas to become a solid volleyball contention. As far as Tyler is concerned, maybe he couldn't be successful in basketball because he body wasn't made for the constant running and blocking or maybe even shooting, but in volleyball he's a stud because he excels in other areas where his body is made that way.
So I'm just saying that the athletes who can play multiple sports tend not to chose volleyball as it's not as mainstream as the others, but we can compete at a national level just not win in a dominate fashion. But time will tell and it will happen once more and more get involved in the sport.
I think there are a few every year that have D1 protentional, but most don't or won't pursue it in college as they don't want the commitment or have other plans for their lives. Plus the money to be pro isn't there either and that's a huge draw even if you love the game...
Hobie1Kanobie
New member
I totally agree, the numbers are not there for the D1 colleges to look at Ohio, but they will come once volleyball becomes more main stream in 10 years...Just no money in it and that's what drives most.
Hobie1Kanobie
New member
There are some (a choice 1-3) that think they are better than everyone else but in reality they are good to great just need to check the humility button when they enter the building and bring the team up not just themselves (or so they think).
That’s a shame people/kids are that way. Not sure 1-3 means?
As a coach it’s a team sport and the main goal is to be a great teammate which make teams go from good to great. Another exciting club year is coming. Hopefully coaches can instill great life lessons into these young mens life. That’s what it’s truly all about.
As a coach it’s a team sport and the main goal is to be a great teammate which make teams go from good to great. Another exciting club year is coming. Hopefully coaches can instill great life lessons into these young mens life. That’s what it’s truly all about.
MatchPoint
Active member
He means there are one to three (1-3) players that act that way.
Hobie1Kanobie
New member
True...you see it and it's like man it's a team sport and you're pretty good if not great if you could just learn to be a better teammate...
Brambleberry
Active member
This thread has taken an odd turn thanks to our new member. The best Ohio club team possibly ever was Vanguard in 2021. They had a handful of D1 commits. Gilbert, Young, Nusterer, and McDonough. A handful of others went D2. They had the best talent from Ohio, Indiana, and Pennsylvania and finished 10th at Nationals. Jonah and Luke Little were both getting looks with the USAV U-19 national team as well.
Top 10 is my interpretation of teams that are "Competing" at the national level and that type of talent is not just going to appear from bringing in kids from Moeller, Elder, X, Walnut year after year no matter how good of teammates they are on the court or level of coaching they receive.
I love the optimism, and being a great teammate and coachable are necessary qualities to reach the top level, but let's not act like those were the only things keeping any Attack team of recent years from achieving the type of goals you are describing
Top 10 is my interpretation of teams that are "Competing" at the national level and that type of talent is not just going to appear from bringing in kids from Moeller, Elder, X, Walnut year after year no matter how good of teammates they are on the court or level of coaching they receive.
I love the optimism, and being a great teammate and coachable are necessary qualities to reach the top level, but let's not act like those were the only things keeping any Attack team of recent years from achieving the type of goals you are describing
MyNameIsDoug?
Well-known member
And this is a problem and why, if possible, club needs to try and make things more affordable. There could be kids or families who want to play that could potentially be good or better players from public schools or other, smaller private schools, but they're priced out from an early age so they don't get the development the other kids who can afford it get. This isn't a problem unique to volleyball, of course, as soccer has been this way for a long time. And I understand that most costs are probably the way they are for a reason and to keep things profitable, but maybe doing more fundraisers or in school season tournaments could help raise more money. Not getting new jerseys every year could help lower costs for families a bit as well (think Attack and OP both get new jerseys every year? Not positive, though); maybe make that an every couple years sort of deal and try to sell the old ones. I don't know, just spitballing, but as the game grows in Ohio, it'd be nice to see more kids play the game more often and have the opportunities to do so.
Brambleberry
Active member
The issue has always been exposure at a young age. So many kids in Ohio don't even have the opportunity to play volleyball until high school. Some of the Catholic grade schools in Ohio have teams, but unless a high school head coach of a public school is putting in tons of effort to coordinate starting a grade school program (Walnut Hills is the example in Cinci) it's not going to just happen.
I think Attack and OP are both doing their part to combat this by recently starting teams at the 12, 13, 14 age groups which will hopefully translate to players being more advanced by the time they are actually in high school.
Sure club is expensive and could price out families, but all of these kids you are talking about aren't even being given the opportunity to play for their elementary school. Of course they aren't going to play club regardless of cost.
I think Attack and OP are both doing their part to combat this by recently starting teams at the 12, 13, 14 age groups which will hopefully translate to players being more advanced by the time they are actually in high school.
Sure club is expensive and could price out families, but all of these kids you are talking about aren't even being given the opportunity to play for their elementary school. Of course they aren't going to play club regardless of cost.
While I agree all the players mentioned above were great players, none were good enough to play D1.
I have no idea where you are going with this argument. Give a name since you are so adamant about these players!
$100-200 for jersey’s isn’t the main cost. The main cost is the facility. It’s probably 80% of club fees. My guess is AAU basketball and girls club vball is more expensive.
As others have said it more about getting kids playing earlier. Most athletes are still play basketball, football baseball and many other sports at 11/12/13/14 etc.
I guess it depends on your definition of D1. D2 teams technically compete as D1. All of those guys could play at a D2 school. The level of program would be different, but I'm sure they could have found a spot at a Conference Carolina's team or one of the newer D1 teams in the Northeast. And Beckelhimer could have played real D1. I'm not sure he ever received any offers because from what I heard he was quite comfortable in his decision to not attend college from the beginning. However, he certainly had the ability to play at a D1 school. The other guys would maybe be more low D1 to D2 level.
1. You don't think Beckelhimer would have competed for playing time at a D1 school?
2. With only 4.5 athletic scholarships, most D1/2 commits aren't getting much for athletics - much more academics and merit based. The average D1/2 roster size is like 23. Divide 4.5 by 23. That's .19 of a full scholarship if it's divided evenly (which we all know it wouldn't be - places like Hawaii are known to give full scholly's to the big time internationals and the rest of the guys get what's left.
Brambleberry
Active member
NCAA Directory - Directory - Member Listing
web3.ncaa.org
There are only 28 D1 schools with Men's volleyball. Looking at the list, I am not sure he would be a starter at any of the Big West, MIVA,, EIVA, or MPSF schools. IF he wanted to play at a Northeast Conference school, then I could see him getting playing time there
I think he could have started (not necessarily right away) for lower MIVA schools like a Quincy or Lindenwood type. He probably would never have gotten looks from schools out west in the MPSF or Big West, I'll agree there. In the EIVA I think he could have been in the mix for playing time at the bottom few schools.NCAA Directory - Directory - Member Listing
There are only 28 D1 schools with Men's volleyball. Looking at the list, I am not sure he would be a starter at any of the Big West, MIVA,, EIVA, or MPSF schools. IF he wanted to play at a Northeast Conference school, then I could see him getting playing time there