2022-23 Indiana Hoosiers

14Red

14Red

Well-known member
I'll likely be posting alot about Indiana and since we are only a short distance away, and there may be some Hoosier fans on here, I'll start a thread. This can also be a big ten basketball thread as well.

I'm really optimistic about this year's version of the Hoosiers. It's been tough sledding over the last few years, especially the expectations of the Archie Miller era that we downhill fast. Mike Woodson inherited a couple of really good, classy seniors in Trayce Jackson-Davis and Race Thompson and they will be the unquestioned leaders of this team. Last year transfers Miller Kopp and Xavier Johnson came to IU and provided some much needed support. NOW, Woodson has hit the jackpot with a freshman class that could put IU back in the contention for not only a big ten title, but a deep tournament run.

First test, passed. Nationally probably not alot of juice, but this team going to Xavier and winning Friday night was big. IU has had a really tough time winning on the road in the big ten the last few years. Xavier has a home court advantage like alot of big ten teams do, so getting out of there with a hard fought win is impressive. Simply put, we'll go as far as Jackson-Davis takes us. He's a guy who who maybe never thought he'd be at IU 4 years initially. But he's an old school 4, back to the basket, post ups and rarely takes shots outside of 5 foot. That's doesn't blend well with today's brand of NBA basketball. I give Trayce alot of credit for sticking it out. Too many times in the past these guys leave too early for the NBA, not ready and they don't ever become a player they become, or they don't have a college career they expected. A few names in my mind from IU's recent history is OG Annoby, Noah Vonleah and Thomas Bryant. TJD will walk out of IU, barring injury as one of the programs greatest players ever. And that's saying something. If you're over 40 years old, you remember how dominant Indiana basketball was in the 70's and 80's.

HUGE difference in this year's and last years teams with the addition of freshman Jalen Hood-Shafino, Malik Reneau, CJ Gunn and Kaleb Banks. Hood-Shafino and Reneua are plug and play, ready to go freshman. Add them to TJD, Thompson, Johnson and Kopp and suddenly IU has a 7-8 man rotation they never got to last season. Add holdovers Jordan Geronimo, Trey Galloway and Tamar Bates and you may see Woodson go with 10-11 guys on certain nights and matchups.
Pretty excited to see this season unfold. Next test is North Carolina Nov 30.
 
 
And how could I ever forget maybe one of the biggest busts from IU, Romeo Langford.
 
14Red said:
I'll likely be posting alot about Indiana and since we are only a short distance away, and there may be some Hoosier fans on here, I'll start a thread. This can also be a big ten basketball thread as well.

I'm really optimistic about this year's version of the Hoosiers. It's been tough sledding over the last few years, especially the expectations of the Archie Miller era that we downhill fast. Mike Woodson inherited a couple of really good, classy seniors in Trayce Jackson-Davis and Race Thompson and they will be the unquestioned leaders of this team. Last year transfers Miller Kopp and Xavier Johnson came to IU and provided some much needed support. NOW, Woodson has hit the jackpot with a freshman class that could put IU back in the contention for not only a big ten title, but a deep tournament run.

First test, passed. Nationally probably not alot of juice, but this team going to Xavier and winning Friday night was big. IU has had a really tough time winning on the road in the big ten the last few years. Xavier has a home court advantage like alot of big ten teams do, so getting out of there with a hard fought win is impressive. Simply put, we'll go as far as Jackson-Davis takes us. He's a guy who who maybe never thought he'd be at IU 4 years initially. But he's an old school 4, back to the basket, post ups and rarely takes shots outside of 5 foot. That's doesn't blend well with today's brand of NBA basketball. I give Trayce alot of credit for sticking it out. Too many times in the past these guys leave too early for the NBA, not ready and they don't ever become a player they become, or they don't have a college career they expected. A few names in my mind from IU's recent history is OG Annoby, Noah Vonleah and Thomas Bryant. TJD will walk out of IU, barring injury as one of the programs greatest players ever. And that's saying something. If you're over 40 years old, you remember how dominant Indiana basketball was in the 70's and 80's.

HUGE difference in this year's and last years teams with the addition of freshman Jalen Hood-Shafino, Malik Reneau, CJ Gunn and Kaleb Banks. Hood-Shafino and Reneua are plug and play, ready to go freshman. Add them to TJD, Thompson, Johnson and Kopp and suddenly IU has a 7-8 man rotation they never got to last season. Add holdovers Jordan Geronimo, Trey Galloway and Tamar Bates and you may see Woodson go with 10-11 guys on certain nights and matchups.
Pretty excited to see this season unfold. Next test is North Carolina Nov 30.
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For the first time in a long time I watched an IU game and didnt walk away disgusted.

LEts hope we can keep building and not fall off again after talent (TJD) leaves. I wanna dust off my spot on the bandwagon but man it has been tough over the years.
 
Thavoice said:
For the first time in a long time I watched an IU game and didnt walk away disgusted.

LEts hope we can keep building and not fall off again after talent (TJD) leaves. I wanna dust off my spot on the bandwagon but man it has been tough over the years.
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I'm not sure it's going to be long lasting, at this point the only freshman that I've heard that could be a one and done is Hood-Shafino, but we'll see how this season goes. I think Woodson has proven over a short time that he can recruit and with IU's fanbase, I think the Hoosiers are in a good spot with the new NIL deals.
 
14Red said:
I'm not sure it's going to be long lasting, at this point the only freshman that I've heard that could be a one and done is Hood-Shafino, but we'll see how this season goes. I think Woodson has proven over a short time that he can recruit and with IU's fanbase, I think the Hoosiers are in a good spot with the new NIL deals.
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I am of the ole General days and held a grudge for a long, long time. When he returned a few years ago it was a way for me to forgive, but not forget. Had a good, short run and fell back to earth. Crean did what he could, came along at an impossible time after when they hired that shyster who was already in trouble and it wrecked the program. I cringe that he is doing well at, well i forget where he is at now (houston maybe?) because it was a stoopid hire.

Had high hopes during the Miller days and that disappointed. Liked Woodson hire, but thought it wouldnt work but doggone it, he just may work out. Need some outside shooting to compliment the inside game but I prefer this style over teams who live and die by the three.
 
Well voice, looks like me and you eh? We are cut from the same cloth, I grew up in the Knight era and loved those Hoosier teams in the 70's and 80's. Unfortunately we had to live through the end of the Knight era and I'm not going to say he didn't have alot to do with it. As he got older, he became more and more defiant and tone deaf, not unlike guy I grew up liking in Pete Rose.
It amazes me these older college coaches who seem to do whatever they want and they never adjust to the times. I REALLY like what Knight stood for - discipline - graduate players - no cheating. But he also didn't adjust to the modern athlete.
Kelvin Sampson was a bad hire, but they wanted and needed to make a big splash. Funny that today, Sampson is probably fine because the NCAA has pretty much wiped it's hands from any recruiting violations.
I kind of wish they would had rode it out with Mike Davis, but maybe he simply wasn't going to do what the boosters wanted. That last team that made the NCAA final with him was magical.
I really liked Tom Crean, I thought he was pushed out again because the boosters wanted too much from the coach. The Hoosiers have not got back to his teams yet.
I thought Archie was going to be a good hire, but it was evident that he's just not able to recruit top talent and the style we played was horrid. I think today, the big time programs you have to play the AAU/ one and done game with kids. It drives me nuts how so many kids think they are one and dones and they obviously are not. I think 4 years ago, if you told TJD he was still going to be in Bloomington he's say you were crazy. I have so much respect for that kid because he didn't chase the money like so many before him have. Romeo Langford's pro basketball career is basically over. He's can't even get minutes on bad NBA teams. He's got a career of Gleague or going overseas.
I said it watching his one year at IU. He could not shoot, he played very lackadaisical. I can't believe the Celtics picked him at #12.
 
Nice win for the Hoosiers last night against a North Carolina team that was #1 last just last week. They've now lost 3 in a row. I'm going to curb my enthusiasm just a little until the big ten gets underway. If IU can continue this trend into the big ten season, then we may get excited come March. Now unlike big ten football which is trash, big ten hoops is really good, although they can't seem to win national championships. It's been what, since the early 2000's with Michigan State's last big ten national championship.
Purdue looks like they are going to be for real again this year, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin is normally good. Wonder if Illinois may drop off a bit.
 
You forgot to mention Maryland.

Minn shot lights out, Edey only so-so and Purdue still won by 19. Minn was without one of their best. It was close until half-way through the 4th. As fouls and watching players bounce off Edey built-up but he has decent back-up. Good solid Indiana players. The two Fr that came in are running the team. Past that, we're short on true PG's. Michigan bests us in the post the last two years and I don't expect anything less this year. Indiana has speed all over the floor. The teams with solid pg depth will wear on Purdue.

B10 going to be a dog-fight and they may actually be worth the typical over-rating that goes on with them.

Purdue's wins only showed Gonzaga over-rated as usual and that Duke is young. If their coach is any good, the Duke at end of season will look nothing like Duke at the beginning. They're going to be tough. NC? Who predicted that? Houston? Juries out. Wins are there but not quality. VA looks tough again.
 
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Incredibly disappointing loss at Rutgers on Saturday for IU. I had really hoped we were beyond this playing like crap on the road. Until IU can prove they can make 3's regularly, this will be the theme. Pack the paint and let the Hoosiers chuck it from the cheap seats. Thank goodness Miller Kopp showed up or we'd had 30 for the game. TJD was completely neutralized by the zone and few adjustments were made. Jalen Hood-Shafino was a late scratch with back spasms.....what 18 year old has back spasms?? Is this Romeo Langford 2.0?
 
eastisbest said:
Someone tell them the game has started.
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You can't win the game in the first 10 minutes, but you sure can lose it. It's amazing that down 26, they were able to pull it to 3. It amazes me how a team at Indiana, as big of tradition that basketball program has, they play 10-15 "big" games a season, to come out and look like a mid major team in games.
Couple of things to keep in mind with IU. TJD has to be healthy and play well for this team to be really successful. He's dealing with a back issue and he's not the same guy he was 3-4 games ago. Jalen Hood-Shafino? Big time freshman, missed his 3rd game with a back injury. I mean how does an 18 year old have a lingering back problem. At Kansas this week and it's going to take all we've got at a high level to not make this a really tough day.
Good things, Miller Kopp, who's been invisible at times in his two years at IU, is on a scoring binge. Now is that a good thing tough? IU has some talented freshmen that would probably see more minutes, but if they are playing from behind and Kopp is a legit scoring option, they can't take him out much.
Secondly, Race Thompson, who seems lost in the Woodson system, hit 4 3's and played real well.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
Rock, Chalk, Jayhawk. Bobbt Knight was IU bball period.
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IU plays Kansas next season, Dec. 16 at Bloomington. I'll continue to say this is good for IU. They need to start being able to play away from Assembly Hall. For some reason, this program has evolved to being a completely different team at home than on the road. So the Hoosiers big 3 games this season, they beat North Carolina at Bloomington, lost to Arizona on a neutral floor, and lost to Kansas at Lawrence. I'll add in Xavier as a big game because it's a good program and IU actually won that one on the road. So in the 4 games, 2-2. This team is still a work in progress. The Rutgers loss was very telling, again another road loss in conference. Saturday's game may have been one where you lose the battle and the war. If Xavier Johnson is out for a signifiant time, that's not good.
 
WOW....trouble in Bloomington. As I've posted on there before, the biggest word in sports is Expectations. It can make and break your programs.

IU, with nearly all their key players back this season, adding a good freshman class looked to be a contender for the big ten and even possibly at the national level. Well...things are not going well. Archie Miller has to be smiling somewhere.
Now the recent struggles has been largely contributed to injuries to point guard Xavier Johnson and more recently Race Thompson. However, even with those two out, you cant...
- lose a 21 point first half lead at Iowa
-lose at Northwestern
-lose at Penn State

IU will most assuredly drop out of the top 25 and may have a difficult time getting back, and this team looks like a bubble team or maybe not even make the NCAA tournament. THAT would be a major disappointment and could very well get Mike Woodson fired.
I feel for Trayce Jackson-Davis. He's going to go down as one of the best individual players in IU history, and not even a sniff of a big ten title, or any success in the NCAA tournament.
 
eastisbest said:
What's the issue? Where are they playing badly?
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Sorry for the delay, it has been really hard analyzing IU basketball over the past 5-6 years. Yogi's senior year is the last really good team they had. They seem to get pretty good talent, but there is just alot of inconsistency in their play. They seem to be great at Assembly Hall, and not so great away from it. As much as I like Mike Woodson, it doesn't seem like it's changed much since Archie Miller's departure. I know for most of us, Bob Knight's shadow still casts very large in Indiana. Back then, it didn't matter, IU won home games - nearly all of them - and they won a majority of their road games.
To me, I'd think road games would mean less today because these kids play all over the country in high school and AAU tournaments. Way back when, many kids never left their state until they had a college road game.
Now since this writing, the Hoosiers have reeled off 4 straight. Wisconsin, @ Illinois, Michigan State and @ Minnesota. The least impressive being last night at Minnesota for a Gopher team who was missing it's 3 best players. IU trailed the entire first half, did get the lead and lost it late, and TJD pulled a rabbit out of his hat and carried us to a win.
So IU is in a much better spot that a few weeks ago, but still can be a struggle for this team.
I'll say this, Trayce Jackson-Davis will go down as on of IU's all time greats. Sadly, he'll not likely be on a team that was a big winner.
 
I don't see them near as much as you do. I believe the Purdue - IU game is coming up. Woodson brings in more talent and I think he's a fine coach. Where Painter perhaps is better is that the pieces he brings in, fit the puzzle. They may not be the best talent, high school awards aside. But they fill a need, so they tend to play well together. But that kind of team can always be beat by superior talent that can beat their one-on-one assignments.

Knight's shadow hangs over more than IU. My greatest sports disappointment is that Keady not got the ring. Class on and off. There's some great stories about the friendship of Keady and Knight... off the court. On the court? lol. Hell on fire.

One of these threads got talking about old-time, players we'd seen. I couldn't have asked for a much better time to attend a B10 school. Unfortunately, I just missed the 76 team and Buckner, Crews (hellava coach), Abernathy, Wilkerson and May. Even so, the talent I saw from IU alone., including the 81 team....
 
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eastisbest said:
I don't see them near as much as you do. I believe the Purdue - IU game is coming up. Woodson brings in more talent and I think he's a fine coach. Where Painter perhaps is better is that the pieces he brings in, fit the puzzle. They may not be the best talent, high school awards aside. But they fill a need, so they tend to play well together. But that kind of team can always be beat by superior talent that can beat their one-on-one assignments.

Knight's shadow hangs over more than IU. My greatest sports disappointment is that Keady not got the ring. Class on and off. There's some great stories about the friendship of Keady and Knight... off the court. On the court? lol. Hell on fire.

One of these threads got talking about old-time, players we'd seen. I couldn't have asked for a much better time to attend a B10 school. Unfortunately, I just missed the 76 team and Buckner, Crews (hellava coach), Abernathy, Wilkerson and May. Even so, the talent I saw from IU alone., including the 81 team....
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Matt Painter is the best coach no one's ever heard of. Very unheralded and I just think Purdue has this stigma because they've never won it all. I'd say since 1990, Purdue and Michigan State, possibly Ohio State has been the best big ten basketball programs. Oh throw Wisconsin in there as well. I bang the big ten football wise, but the big ten basketball wise is really good, they just can't get a national championship. You are 100% correct, you rarely hear of Painter having big recruiting classes. He gets guys who are going to stay, they play a more traditional post up style offense and it works for them. You're right too, they tend to get overmatched deeper in the tournament with just better players.
I actually went to Purdue's basketball camp as a kid several years, Lee Rose was the coach the first year I went, then Keady after that.
It was tough to get close to Knight as an opponent, but Knight respected Keady because he didn't let Knight push him around and he ran a clean program. The only thing people remember about Knight is the negatives. We need more guys like him in college sports. Knight ran a clean program and did not allow the boosters and others to get to the kids. Most of today's coaches just play this game with recruits and do just about anything to get recruits. College sports is so slimey now. Really sad.

Really liked the 81 team. Randy Whitman, Ted Kitchell. Too bad Kitchell had such a bad back, he could had been a really good pro. And it was really cool back then because in state kids wanted to stay close to home. By the time it was in the 80's, you recruited IU, they didn't recruit you. If IU was interested in you, you paid attention. Steve Alford and Damon Bailey never visited another school.
 
Needless to say, that IU win over Purdue Saturday was epic. Hoosiers are up and down and all around. Home game tonight vs. Rutgers, SHOULD be a win but with this group, you just never know.
 
14Red said:
Needless to say, that IU win over Purdue Saturday was epic. Hoosiers are up and down and all around. Home game tonight vs. Rutgers, SHOULD be a win but with this group, you just never know.
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IU might have a shot. They've got some pieces yet to get consistency from.

The #1 is more a reflection of the competition others have been seeing. Ive said since first game, Purdue is a good team, not great. They have interesting stories but not much in the way of an effective and reliable offense. They over play on D handing out open shots. Part of my problem may be watching Toledo games in which they shoot 40-50% on threes and six deep above 33%. They have mid-range. Has Purdue even shot a mid-range?

The worst part of the game though, listening to a particular announcer that doesn't know how to let a game be the center of attention.
 
eastisbest said:
IU beats Rutgers. Got to make you happy?
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Definitely happy with the win, but man was that a bloodbath. IU played great the first 15 minutes, getting a 13-14 point lead, and from that point on, Rutgers outplayed us. Thank goodness they were cold as ice. Other than TJD and an unusual performance from Miller Kopp, we really struggled on offense, especially down the stretch. All in all though, win is a win is a win. Rafael Davis, who was back at the Big Ten Network studios, said after the game IU could be a final four contender??? Bruce Webber said he's never seen a team go from being so poor defensively to great in a matter of 6 weeks. The next few weeks will be key for this team, 4 of the next 5 are on the road, including Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue. If we can work our way through that without falling apart, this team should be able to get the double bye for the big ten tournament. To me, you have to have a top 4-5 seed in the big dance to legitimately have a shot to advance to the final four. Now I'm not sure I agree with Davis because this team just isn't athletic enough in the 2 and 3 positions. You get outside the big ten and there are some real players in those positions. I hope Xavier Johnson can somehow come back AND be effective. JHS is really showing his youth with the ups and downs.
 
Well I'll admit, I was pleasantly surprised that IU went to Ann Arbor and got a W. That's big for this team. And frankly they didn't even play all that well. TJD was really good as ususal - other than free throws, and JHS just plays so well for a freshman. IU is at Northwestern and home for Illinois this week.
 
I really thought NW would come in flat Wednesday vs. IU after the big win Sunday. IU came out flat and it cost them. They did come back in the 2nd half and tied it, but spotting that big lead early was their downfall.
 
What a win for the Hoosiers in West Lafayette Saturday night. That's rare. And especially with TJD not scoring much. Jalen Hood-Schifino put his name in the history books of the IU / Purdue rivalry with a dominating 35 point performance. I was pretty high on Purdue earlier in the year, but the last month they've looked tired and I think teams are figuring them out. Now I've said all along they play closer to their ceiling game in and game out, but I just don't know that they can make a serious tournament run.
 
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