If the public schools started to build a better program with better execution, more discipline and hard work instead of b!tching all the time, they wouldn't lose the talent you speak of to the private schools.
Oh by the way weren't there 5 public school champs this past season out of 6.
That is a convenient generalization. It is also wrong. There are a lot of well coached lower division schools with average to good talent who are routinely defeated by similar sized private (and in some cases public) schools with superior size, speed and talent. They may show well for a while just on heart and coaching alone but eventually talent wins. If you have the ability to concentrate talent on a routine basis then I say embrace the advantage, but admit you have it.
Also, one year does not a trend make. Look at the ratio over the years.
"...Our coach told us to get focused. We lost the game (31-8), but it wasn’t because we were still thinking about how nice the school and the facility looked. We just weren’t a very good team that year and Brookstone was good, very good."
As far as our coaches were concerned, they never told us we have to go out and beat these private schools. They didn’t tell us anything special when we played a private school. As players, we thought about it a little bit but it wasn’t a big deal. We wanted to win every game we played, whether it was against a private school or a public school. That didn’t matter to us.
We looked at private schools as just another team. If they were a good team, we really focused on playing as well as we could and beating them. It they weren’t a good team, we concentrated on making sure that we didn’t overlook them.
Yea, it's the same old story, the ones that have all the advantages want to keep the status quo, so they spit out the same lines..."work harder, blah, blah, blah...build a better program, blah, blah, blah...more discipline, blah, blah, blah".
Stizostedion pretty much said it all in his post about the MAC teams. Put them in a major metropolitan area and you wouldn't hear boo from them because half of their players would be at the local private schools.
BLAH BLAH BLAH, privates get all the best players WHA WHA WHA. You're as tired as this thread.
Radio Dave (or whatever his name is)...I think he wants you all around here to view him as a journalist. Clearly, he isn't. He's a man with very strong opinions, advocating for a certain outcome. He's entitled to his opinions, which are disguised as objective reporting. Keep that in mind.
All joking aside, the facts are that small private schools in large urban areas have a tremendous advantage over small public schools.
Just the facts for the three small school divisions since many people do not know the actual facts.
In DIV since 1980, public schools have won 19 state championships and private schools have won 13 state championships.
In DV since 1980, public schools have won 18 state championships and private schools have won 14 state championships.
In DVI since 1994, public schools have won 10 state championships and private schools have won 8 state championships.
Furthermore, there a lot more private schools in DVI than any other division. Secondly, Delphos St. John, Nowalk St. Paul and arguably Newark Catholic are NOT in large urban areas. Finally, small public schools are competing just fine with private schools in larger urban areas, other than Ursuline, please name me the private schools in larger urban areas that are dominating public schools in DIV, DV and DVI. You can't because there aren't any; Here is the list of private schools in the lower divisions that are in one of the 8 largest urban areas of the state that are not steamrolling those poor small public schools year after year: Cleveland Central Catholic, Elyria Catholic, Trinity, Chanel, Gilmour, Hawken, Lutheran East, Lutheran West, VASJ, Canton CC, St. Thomas Aquinas, Warren JFK, Bishop Ready, Chaminade-Julienne, CHCA, Fenwick, Badin, Roger Bacon, Summit Country Day, Cinci Country Day, Dayton Christian, Grove City Christian, Worthington Christian, Youngstown Christian, Cardinal Stritch, Purcell Marian ... I am sure I missed some).
Compare all this with Division I where since 1980, public schools have won 13 state championships and private schools have won 19 state championships. So public schools in the small divisions seem to do just fine against the evil private schools, much better than the publics in DI do. Just correcting this ad nauseam fallacy.
Again public schools compete just fine with privates in the lower divisions, if private schools in the lower divisions had such a "tremendous advantage" they should be winning 70% to 90% of the championships in the lower divisions, they obviously are not.
Radio Dave (or whatever his name is)...I think he wants you all around here to view him as a journalist. Clearly, he isn't. He's a man with very strong opinions, advocating for a certain outcome. He's entitled to his opinions, which are disguised as objective reporting. Keep that in mind.
He also loves to stir the pot on conference membership.
What's often ignored in this debate is that it is a relatively small handful of schools, public and private, that have won titles over the past couple of decades. It looks more like the privates and publics who have built programs with the high goal of winning state titles, along with the proper coaching and scheduling, are the programs that win.
Yet again, more arrogance coming from the parochial fans. Two thirds of Ohio schools want a split....an idea that's come of age. It will happen, and attitudes expressed on this forum are read by more folks than you realize. Perhaps you people are digging your own graves; because, at the end of the day, publics are tired of you and really don't need you and could care less if you're gone at this point.
That is a convenient generalization. It is also wrong. There are a lot of well coached lower division schools with average to good talent who are routinely defeated by similar sized private (and in some cases public) schools with superior size, speed and talent. They may show well for a while just on heart and coaching alone but eventually talent wins. If you have the ability to concentrate talent on a routine basis then I say embrace the advantage, but admit you have it.
Also, one year does not a trend make. Look at the ratio over the years.
Then build a better program. If you have a decent/solid program why would kids want to leave? You talk about superior size, but that's exactly why there are divisions to take care of size disparities. I realize that you need talent, but a well-coached team with mediocre/decent talent can and will beat teams that are poorly coached even though they have more talent overall.
What "convenient generalization" are you talking about?
That's fine to say one year doesn't make a trend, but if 5 of 6 division champs were public then why the need for a split. Clearly public schools can compete and even win.
This whole discussion is a joke and radio dave is just planting seeds with all these ridiculous threads.
Those private schools are stealing my kids self-esteem!! How am i suspose to raise my kid if he can't win a state title in his/her sports?!?! I'm glad the journalist from a state that already has 'split' divisons brought this to a national level.
Some folks seem to think any performance gap is a result of private schools "sucking up talent". I don't see this.
The most talented school in any given year in Ohio is probably Glenville. Public.
St. Ignatius and St. X hardly load up with the D1 talent every year, despite being two of the largest schools in the entire state AND being private (they are two of the largest private schools in the nation).
Six of the ten largest schools in the state for football are in the GMC. Yet that league has been dominated over the years by one of its smallest member schools (Colerain). Colerain has had more players get college football scholarships in recent years than any of the GCL South schools, including St. X. which is a private school that is 40% larger.
There is no private school equivalent to Ft. Lauderdale St. Thomas Aquinas in Ohio, sucking up talent from a huge area and accepting high-profile football transfers through junior year.
Yet again, more arrogance coming from the parochial fans. Two thirds of Ohio schools want a split....an idea that's come of age. It will happen, and attitudes expressed on this forum are read by more folks than you realize. Perhaps you people are digging your own graves; because, at the end of the day, publics are tired of you and really don't need you and could care less if you're gone at this point.
Please provide the link that indicates 2/3 of Ohio schools want a split. The last thing I saw said it was 60-40 said they did NOT want a split. When this split happens as you say, Ohio football will become more and more like New Jersey. What a complete joke that will be.
Some folks seem to think any performance gap is a result of private schools "sucking up talent". I don't see this.
The most talented school in any given year in Ohio is probably Glenville. Public.
St. Ignatius and St. X hardly load up with the D1 talent every year, despite being two of the largest schools in the entire state AND being private (they are two of the largest private schools in the nation).
Six of the ten largest schools in the state for football are in the GMC. Yet that league has been dominated over the years by one of its smallest member schools (Colerain). Colerain has had more players get college football scholarships in recent years than any of the GCL South schools, including St. X. which is a private school that is 40% larger.
There is no private school equivalent to Ft. Lauderdale St. Thomas Aquinas in Ohio, sucking up talent from a huge area and accepting high-profile football transfers through junior year.
The most talented Ohio team I watched play last year was Trotwood-Madison, a public.
Please provide the link that indicates 2/3 of Ohio schools want a split. The last thing I saw said it was 60-40 said they did NOT want a split. When this split happens as you say, Ohio football will become more and more like New Jersey. What a complete joke that will be.
Correct, BulldogBob is wrong and has no idea what he or she is talking about. Last fall the OHSAA hired a professional polling company to conduct a professional poll of schools who have votes in the OHSAA. A good majority was against a split, I believe it was about 60-40 voting against a split. BulldogBob is talking about some dumb survey conducted by Wayne County school officials where 2/3 said they wanted a split, the thing is that only 30% of the schools sent the survey even bothered to respond to it, so yes he is very wrong on that 2/3 number. I would hope Ohio hasn't yet become this wussified and it looks very likely that any vote to split will lose by a much bigger margin than the last two competitive balance votes. A split also could garner legal challenges that would cost even more money and the OHSAA in its press releases and interviews has already hinted that it may no longer exist and may have to dissolve if a split happens. As a result, a new organization would have to be developed to try to exclude private schools, most of which are religious, so this too would also likely have legal challenges costing a large sum of money.
My proposal is that a petition be circulated to get enough signatures so that a vote goes to the OHSAA next spring on limiting competitive balance votes, etc... to once every 4-5 years or so. Wasting time and money doing this year after year is getting absurd, this is not a public school levy. The threshold for getting a matter to a vote via petition is ridiculously too low in the OHSAA and that needs to change also so that a small group of schools cannot hold the entire OHSAA hostage year after year with petitions and votes.
Finally, BulldogBob is not a very respected poster, even by McKinley fans (check out the Federal League Thread). I can almost guarantee that most McKinley fans are against any split. Those McKinley v. Ignatius playoff games in the late 1990s were two of the best high school football games ever in Ohio and not having games like that in the future is a horrible loss for everyone, whether they are public school or private school supporters.
The most talented Ohio team I watched play last year was Trotwood-Madison, a public.
I think per Rivals, they have the most ranked recruits in Ohio this coming season by a fair margin - five kids in the Ohio Top 60 (including two of the top three in the state).
That is at least as many as the Ohio Big Catholics currently possess COMBINED.
OK, Dave...so you work in radio media. That doesn't make you objective.
I have a suggestion. It wouldn't take a lot of work on your part. In Ohio, no private school has won the state softball title since 2004. That's four divisions over eight years. Not one private school winner for 8 straight years in four divisions. 32 public school state champs. It's a big sport in terms of number of participating schools. It's also pretty high profile with lots of players. This year's winners were...North Canton Hoover (D-I), LaGrange Keystone (D-II), Warren Champion (D-III), Convoy Crestview (D-IV). The opponents in the final were all publics as well. Pick up the phone and call the coach of each state champion and ask them why they win and why the privates don't.
Publish a story with your answers.
I know what the overall public/private stats are, but this sport might provide some interesting fodder about who wins and WHY.
Take a shot at this...it wouldn't be too hard and it would be real journalism. You could even slant the story a bit to fit your view of things. You could run a thread on Yappi..."Public Schools Dominate Softball and We Tell You Why!!!"
Yet again, more arrogance coming from the parochial fans. Two thirds of Ohio schools want a split....an idea that's come of age. It will happen, and attitudes expressed on this forum are read by more folks than you realize. Perhaps you people are digging your own graves; because, at the end of the day, publics are tired of you and really don't need you and could care less if you're gone at this point.
Publics want privates gone? In Obama socialist world your absolutely right. People with real intelligence believe that good schools for our children is our only way to succeed in this country, you NE liberals will never go for that though would you? You prefer the substandard level that most of our public shools are operating at now, keep that tax money flowing though.
Then build a better program. If you have a decent/solid program why would kids want to leave? You talk about superior size, but that's exactly why there are divisions to take care of size disparities. I realize that you need talent, but a well-coached team with mediocre/decent talent can and will beat teams that are poorly coached even though they have more talent overall.
What "convenient generalization" are you talking about?
That's fine to say one year doesn't make a trend, but if 5 of 6 division champs were public then why the need for a split. Clearly public schools can compete and even win.
This whole discussion is a joke and radio dave is just planting seeds with all these ridiculous threads.
I was talking about physical size of individual players, not the size of the school. Take a look at the average D5 roster, then look at Ursuline's. Tell me there's no size difference. The same held true of ASVSM and Mooney when they were in D4. Look at their rosters now compared to the average schools in D3.
The generalization I was referring to was the argument that "if only they worked harder and stopped complaining" which is a common refrain around here, because I've used it myself.
By the way, I don't advocate a split. I've embraced the advantage. My school benefits from the ability to attract talent from a wide area. However, there are two huge publics that my school is sandwiched between that are also just as effective at it, if not more so.
Publics want privates gone? In Obama socialist world your absolutely right. People with real intelligence believe that good schools for our children is our only way to succeed in this country, you NE liberals will never go for that though would you? You prefer the substandard level that most of our public shools are operating at now, keep that tax money flowing though.
Now you're turning this political. Why? Let's stick to football because I don't think you're really qualified to have a political discussion. Did you actually pay for your private school education? Your mom and dad will want their money back.
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