Eventually the OHSAA will be splitting into 20 divisions. MoeDude is a prophet.
Double-dipping Dan Ross and company also need the revenue from an expanded tournament to support their lifestyle.
Why split only football? Why not all the other sports too? Or is it just because football is the great cash-cow? How come we don't hear complaints from the public school supporters in those sports too?
In a couple years after 100% pay-to-play is the established standard (instead of some nominal $200 fee) the number of kids standing on the sideline of a public school team will be greatly reduced. Fact.
Then Dan Ross and company will have to re-jigger the whole formula to accomodate the remaining football juiceboxers.
In reality this makes winning a title easier not only in the division of former D1 teams, but also in the largest division, since now instead of facing a really good team that would have been in as a smaller D1, a team gets to face a subpar team from the large division that wouldnt have even made the playoffs previously.
That same logic applies to every division. It will be easier in D3 also. 32 teams will make the playoffs under this system which wouldn't make it under the current system. Not all of those teams will be in the top 2 divisions.
The arguments against this are the same as the arguments against going from 3 divisions to 5 and going from 5 divisions to 6.
They should also put the smallest 10% in D7 and divide the rest among the other 5 divisions, if they have any clue about statistical distribution. That make more sense than any proposed competitive balance formula.
They should also put the smallest 10% in D7 and divide the rest among the other 5 divisions, if they have any clue about statistical distribution. That make more sense than any proposed competitive balance formula.
If it's socialism now, it was socialism when they went to six teams, it was socialism when they went to five teams, and it was socialism when they went to three teams.
The MAC is a great league and the biggest reason for their success is this "socialism". Their dominance in the lower divisions is very impressive but without a divisional split, very few people would even recognize those schools.
In a previous post I've already conceded that numbers do have a an impact. But I would agree it was "socialism" when they expanded from 3 divisions to 5 and then 6 and now 7. The main thing more numbers does give a team is the ability to two platoon which does make a difference in how durable a team can be.
As for the MAC, I've seen them play and there are many years their lower Division teams can compete very well with a higher division teams.
What I find interesting about this whole discussion is that most of the whining does come out of the NEO posters where the politics does tend to lean toward a more Liberal(aka Domcrat) point of view.
What I find interesting about this whole discussion is that most of the whining does come out of the NEO posters where the politics does tend to lean toward a more Liberal(aka Domcrat) point of view.
Nope I am a Republican. Your socialism comparison is just BS.
No it wouldn't They already do that for week 1 at some events.
I don't see the OHSAA going to festival 1 ticket good for all games,
with the games running one right after the another even with the hoopla
for the winners.
I believe Canton and Massillon host the championships in 2013... I see a Sunday Division I title game being played in Canton. As for Columbus, three days of doubleheaders (two for one ticket prices).
Last edited by DaveDawg : 04-12-12 at 03:25 PM.
Reason: info
In a previous post I've already conceded that numbers do have a an impact. But I would agree it was "socialism" when they expanded from 3 divisions to 5 and then 6 and now 7.
No more so than when they expanded from one division to two in 1965.
Of course they did -- because there are more coaches in D2-D5 than in D1 and D6. Any allocation which is based on facts and an elementary understanding of statistical distribution would have fewer schools in D1 and D6 and the most in D3 and D4. But because such a distribution would mean more schools in each of D2-5, it is perceived as being unfair to those schools.
3 games Massillon. 3 games Canton. 1 game Perry Heights?
How much attendance does the D5 or D6 games usually get? Maybe my alma matre Central Catholic could get a state title game? Turf and dead smack in between Fawcett and Paul Brown.
Of course they did -- because there are more coaches in D2-D5 than in D1 and D6. Any allocation which is based on facts and an elementary understanding of statistical distribution would have fewer schools in D1 and D6 and the most in D3 and D4. But because such a distribution would mean more schools in each of D2-5, it is perceived as being unfair to those schools.
I'm guessing most coaches lack the elementary understanding of statistical distribution. It is obvious the OHSAA Board of Directors lacks this understanding.
It has nothing to do with who I root for. This is socialisim at it's best. Instead of rewarding the hard work to be a winner we continue to strive toward the "everyone gets a trophy" attitude. In SWO we have the MAC to show that "open enrollment" and "private" school has nothing to do with how to be a successful football program.
The bottomline is if you build it they will come. Look at what Hilliard has done because they made a commitment to be a top notch program. Look at Princeton during the Coach Mancuso days, and Colerain now but mostly under Coach Coombs. Even Moeller isn't as dominant as it once was because they no longer have a coach like Coach Faust. St. Ignatius is where they still are because of the consistency of having the same coach and program for so many years.
You may have a few isolated programs like Youngstown Ursuline and Mooney that have been dominant in their areas for years, but so has The Big Red from Stuebenville.
It's the continued softening of America and the whiny jerks who want everything made easy instead of working hard to reap the fruits of the labor.
In the MAC we all witness small town football at it's best where teams of young men bust their backsides in the off season and the coaches work them hard on technique.
While some moron is whining about not having a fair chance there is someone else working harder and longer in the weight room and on the field making themself better.
So if 32 of the 72 make the playoffs, why not just include the whole field, it would only add another week, then every school can say they make the playoffs every year. That would be a boon for recruiting! Or you could have a consolation playoff system where every team gets to play one more game regardless of their record, that would make all the mommies and daddies happy. I totally disagree with this, and nobody will have to play hard schedules because 50% of the teams are in. I have to agree with Moedude on this one.
Ohio Stadium hosts the championships in 2013.
Division I can play on the field, Division II can play on the second deck and Division III on the top deck all the while Division VII can play in the press box...the fans can sit across and watch. Then repeat the same the next day
Overall, I agree with the decision, there's a huge disparity between the largest schools in the division. Even Dallas Jaskson of Rivals.com agreed with the disparity.
Unlike FL, TX, CA, AZ, and other states, Ohio has very few large schools. Back in 2009, a school with an enrollment of 500 boys would have fallen in Bowl III in CA, 4A-II in AZ, div 3A in TX, and Div IIA in FL.
In doing some research, I noticed that in states like CA, TX, FL, and even AZ, the bottom level of the top division is about 1000-1200 boys. Ohio only has 9 schools with more than 1000 boys.
What both of us basically agree on is that Ohio should've kept it at 6 divisions and distributed the rest of the schools equally among the five remaining divisions.
I think you and many athers are being naive about what the real complaint is. You want to use the size as an excuse. I will concede that to a point it is true that if you have numbers you stand a better chance of finding some raw talent. But here in Cincinnati we have Lakota East, Oak Hills and Fairfield, three of the biggest schools in the state male enrollment wise and their football programs have done nothing outside Fairfield lone state title around 2 decades ago(Fairfield hasn't even come close to that level of play for years).
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Hey Moedude did you forget 2000 and 2001 when Fairfield beat the Crusaders in the first round of the playoffs and then beat them again the next year in the Showdown! I’ll admit those games weren’t exactly played yesterday but I wouldn’t call them ancient history either!
BTW, if you look at 40 years of AAA/D1 history how many public schools have won the title? By my count only 9 different public schools have won it in 40 years of competition! So while Fairfield’s trophy may be gathering dust it still stands as an incredible accomplishment for a public school district.
BTW, I DON'T WANT A SPLIT PLAYOFF. Let’s keep the publics and privates in the same playoff system.
Finally, I don’t see anything wrong with adding a 7th division. There was to wide a gap in the enrollment from top to bottom in D1 and this rectifies the situation to some extent.
They already do that for week 1 at some events.
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