Completely wrong. Davidson has the 38th largest enrollment in the state. That puts them in the upper third of D1. IOW, they are the exact kind of school the cognizant on here claim can compete.
So what is your arbitrary dividing line to determine who is capable of competing with the big boys?
This isn't even mentioning that Davidson's enrollment was definitely bigger in 2006 and maybe even bigger in 2009. Bradley just opened in 2009 after all. 708 is still a way bigger number than 495 for Jerome or 516 for South .
Also in your region, there are no power privates or monster D1 publics. Most schools are from split districts and have enrollment less than 750. South and Mayfield are a region with Mentor/Strongsville on top of Ignatius/Eds.
So you really only can encounter a bigger school or private if you get to the final 4. Davidson has gotten over the hump twice and I respect that but still 700 something is a big difference from 500 something.
As I said, using your theory, Lake Catholic at 320 in D2 or D3 should be up in D1. They are after all within 200 boys of some D1 schools.
That's a completely inaccurate representation of the MAC's success. If you want to analogize the MAC with D1, then you would have the MAC schools competing in D2. The results might be a bit different in that case, eh?
Not as different as the juiceboxers would think. The Coldwater teams that beat Mooney would have worn out those years' D2 champs. Worn them out.
OHSAA Board Adopts Recommendation to Add Seventh Football Division
Division I Will Be Reduced to 72 Schools; Plan to Begin in 2013
COLUMBUS, Ohio – The Ohio High School Athletic Association will be adding a seventh tournament division in football beginning in 2013, Commissioner Daniel B. Ross has announced. The addition of a seventh division was approved by the OHSAA’s Board of Directors by a 6 to 3 vote during its regularly scheduled meeting on Thursday.
The plan will place the top 10 percent of schools based on enrollment in Division I, with the remaining 644 schools divided evenly among the next six divisions. This will leave 72 schools in Division I with the other six divisions averaging approximately 108 schools. Each of the seven divisions will continue to qualify 32 teams to the tournament. Currently, the six OHSAA football divisions are comprised of an average of 120 schools per division.
The plan for adopting an additional division was in response to a concern by some OHSAA member schools about the enrollment disparity that exists in Division I, where the current range is 494 males at the lower end of the division to 1,164 at the top. Based on current enrollment data, the lower end of Division I would increase to 600 males. Committee meetings were held to address the issue and the recommendation to add a seventh division came from the committee.
“Adding a seventh division not only helps address the enrollment disparity in Division I, but it also will create 32 more tournament opportunities for student-athletes, their schools and their communities, many of which have never or rarely experienced the playoffs,” Ross said. “The committee members believe that this is an issue unique to football, especially since not all schools qualify for the OHSAA football tournament.”
A separate committee, comprised of OHSAA Board and staff members, school administrators and officers of the Ohio High School Football Coaches Association, will be formed to finalize the details of this plan. Among the details to be determined: adjustments to the Harbin Computer Ratings with the addition of another division; regional breakdowns and assignments for Division I, and dates in which specific divisions will play their tournament contests, including logistics of an additional state tournament contest.
Approval of an “athletic count” formula, which is included within a competitive balance proposal that OHSAA member school principals will vote on during the annual referendum process that will occur between May 1 and 15, would also be factored in before placing schools into their respective tournament divisions.
The next two-year cycle for reassigning schools to tournament divisions begins in the fall of 2013. Based on current enrollment figures, a sample of the football tournament divisional enrollment ranges when adding a seventh division would be (again, keeping in mind that this will change before the 2013 season): Division I – 600 to 1,164; Division II – 410 to 599; Division III – 288 to 409; Division IV – 216 to 287; Division V – 159 to 215; Division VI – 114 to 158, and Division VII – 30 to 111. The current football tournament divisional enrollment ranges, which run through through 2012, are: Division I – 494 to 1,164; Division II – 327 to 493; Division III – 243 to 326; Division IV – 172 to 242; Division V – 120 to 171, and Division VI – 30 to 119.
This is the first time the OHSAA has expanded the number of football tournament divisions since 1994, when a sixth division was added. Five years later, the number of tournament qualifiers in each division expanded from 16 to 32. When the tournament first began in 1972, there were three football tournament divisions, and expansion to five divisions occurred in 1980.
Maybe -- but that's only 2 of 21. 9.5% is a bit different than 100%, no?
No, they were just two examples of many. Could the MAC powers compete on a regular basis with D2 powers? That's rhetorical (that means the answer is clear to anyone who knows even the least amount about the topic being discussed).
OHSAA Board Adopts Recommendation to Add Seventh Football Division
Division I Will Be Reduced to 72 Schools; Plan to Begin in 2013
COLUMBUS, Ohio – The Ohio High School Athletic Association will be adding a seventh tournament division in football beginning in 2013, Commissioner Daniel B. Ross has announced. The addition of a seventh division was approved by the OHSAA’s Board of Directors by a 6 to 3 vote during its regularly scheduled meeting on Thursday.
The plan will place the top 10 percent of schools based on enrollment in Division I, with the remaining 644 schools divided evenly among the next six divisions. This will leave 72 schools in Division I with the other six divisions averaging approximately 108 schools. Each of the seven divisions will continue to qualify 32 teams to the tournament. Currently, the six OHSAA football divisions are comprised of an average of 120 schools per division.
The plan for adopting an additional division was in response to a concern by some OHSAA member schools about the enrollment disparity that exists in Division I, where the current range is 494 males at the lower end of the division to 1,164 at the top. Based on current enrollment data, the lower end of Division I would increase to 600 males. Committee meetings were held to address the issue and the recommendation to add a seventh division came from the committee.
“Adding a seventh division not only helps address the enrollment disparity in Division I, but it also will create 32 more tournament opportunities for student-athletes, their schools and their communities, many of which have never or rarely experienced the playoffs,” Ross said. “The committee members believe that this is an issue unique to football, especially since not all schools qualify for the OHSAA football tournament.”
A separate committee, comprised of OHSAA Board and staff members, school administrators and officers of the Ohio High School Football Coaches Association, will be formed to finalize the details of this plan. Among the details to be determined: adjustments to the Harbin Computer Ratings with the addition of another division; regional breakdowns and assignments for Division I, and dates in which specific divisions will play their tournament contests, including logistics of an additional state tournament contest.
Approval of an “athletic count” formula, which is included within a competitive balance proposal that OHSAA member school principals will vote on during the annual referendum process that will occur between May 1 and 15, would also be factored in before placing schools into their respective tournament divisions.
The next two-year cycle for reassigning schools to tournament divisions begins in the fall of 2013. Based on current enrollment figures, a sample of the football tournament divisional enrollment ranges when adding a seventh division would be (again, keeping in mind that this will change before the 2013 season): Division I – 600 to 1,164; Division II – 410 to 599; Division III – 288 to 409; Division IV – 216 to 287; Division V – 159 to 215; Division VI – 114 to 158, and Division VII – 30 to 111. The current football tournament divisional enrollment ranges, which run through through 2012, are: Division I – 494 to 1,164; Division II – 327 to 493; Division III – 243 to 326; Division IV – 172 to 242; Division V – 120 to 171, and Division VI – 30 to 119.
This is the first time the OHSAA has expanded the number of football tournament divisions since 1994, when a sixth division was added. Five years later, the number of tournament qualifiers in each division expanded from 16 to 32. When the tournament first began in 1972, there were three football tournament divisions, and expansion to five divisions occurred in 1980.
So 32 of the 72 teams in D1 will make the playoffs, there's going to be some lopsided scores in the early rounds.
Damn Riverside just missed. Although if the competitive balance thing goes through, you could see schools like Glenville/Massillon elevated and the low end of this graph have some teams go down.
Region 1 would still have St Ignatius, St Edward, Mentor, Solon, Strongsville, Warren Harding, Euclid, Fitch, Boardman.
Looks like South/Mayfield are the ones going down. Glenville would open a spot but they will (and should) end up in D1 when things to through
Damn Riverside just missed. Although if the competitive balance thing goes through, you could see schools like Glenville/Massillon elevated and the low end of this graph have some teams go down.
I dunno -- if you listen to the folks on here, Massillon won't get any bump for tradition, and they'll certainly get a free lunch credit.
They might get the open enrollment penalty, but that's yet to be formalized. The district as a whole nets about 40 kids per year (boys and girls) across all 12 grades, or about 6 boys in grades 10-12. Will OHSAA really decide that those 6 boys should bump their enrollment number by 30+?
Moe: There is no defense, period, that a school like St. X or Mentor be put in the same playoff division as schools like Olentangy Orange and Dublin Jerome (with fewer than 500 boys). if you think this is "socialism", I have a new found loss of respect for a Moeller diploma.
I think you and many athers are being naive about what the real complaint is. You want to use the size as an excuse. I will concede that to a point it is true that if you have numbers you stand a better chance of finding some raw talent. But here in Cincinnati we have Lakota East, Oak Hills and Fairfield, three of the biggest schools in the state male enrollment wise and their football programs have done nothing outside Fairfield lone state title around 2 decades ago(Fairfield hasn't even come close to that level of play for years).
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Your "build it and they will come" shows how narrow minded, parochial, and off-base you are. Especially when you list Hilliard Davidson as an example. They are a closed enrollment, split district, suburban school.
You look at all the top football programs over the past 20-30 years and when each program was at its best you look at the coaching staffs, the support of the boosters for those programs and the attitude of the kids buying into the coaching philosophy and you'll see a common theme. I'll give Coach Coombs credit, maybe behind closed doors he may have complained about the Moeller's and the St. X's of the world but on the field he was too busy building his own powerhouse versus whining about any of the so called unfairness that exists. Winning programs have a common element in that they have solid coaching staffs and support.
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Kids don't move to the Davidson district for football. The numbers of 'transfers' they've had I could count on one hand and none played any roll in their '06 or '09 state championships.
Again, the "Build they will come" goes beyond transfers. It a program attitude that is built that creates pride in the programs. "If you build it they will come" doesn't always mean transfers or recruits, although in many cases that will eventually be a result. Building a winning program brings dedication and pride from the players themselves and contrary to what MentorGrad2002 believes, success does breed harder more dedicated work. Because once you are on top all the nay sayers want to see you fall so it does take even more effort to maintain what you have achieved.
If it was all about athletic ability and talent and having a wide drawing area then why hasn't Cleveland Glenville won a state title?
Lambeau Fields, it is socialism. It's about trying to make everyone the same. I think you are being blinded by all the other rhetoric being thrown out there.
Glenville has only been around in this capacity for like 10 years. They were one wide open missed catch in the endzone from beating Davidson in 2009 for the title and have made the final 4 in other years. That is a far cry from missing the playoffs or having a chance to win one playoff game in your best season.
Hard work only takes you so far. I think it is beyond stupid to think schools with 500 something kids in a closed enrollment have the same chance for success as publics with 1000 kids and privates with a drawing area 5-6 counties wide. Again this isn't socialism because not everyone has the same opportunities to succeed. These schools have a different set of rules.
It is easy as a Moeller fan to think this way though.
It seems to me, and I've been wrong before, that in the TRAC Findlay, St. John's Jesuit and Whitmer will have trouble being in the playoffs considering the other 5 TRAC teams will be D2 or D1a(whatever). Think they would have to count on a lot of points from OOC games.
Lambeau Fields, it is socialism. It's about trying to make everyone the same. I think you are being blinded by all the other rhetoric being thrown out there.
If it's socialism now, it was socialism when they went to six teams, it was socialism when they went to five teams, and it was socialism when they went to three teams.
The MAC is a great league and the biggest reason for their success is this "socialism". Their dominance in the lower divisions is very impressive but without a divisional split, very few people would even recognize those schools.
Socialism, lol. The NFL is socialism. Roster caps, salary caps and revenue sharing. Small markets compete on the same level field as big markets. Thats why the NFL is great and baseball and basketball are a joke.
If it's socialism now, it was socialism when they went to six teams, it was socialism when they went to five teams, and it was socialism when they went to three teams.
The MAC is a great league and the biggest reason for their success is this "socialism". Their dominance in the lower divisions is very impressive but without a divisional split, very few people would even recognize those schools.
Exactly. I guess MoeDude wants Moeller and Summit Country Day to compete in the same division
In reality this makes winning a title easier not only in the division of former D1 teams, but also in the largest division, since now instead of facing a really good team that would have been in as a smaller D1, a team gets to face a subpar team from the large division that wouldnt have even made the playoffs previously.
Last edited by MANOWAR : 04-12-12 at 02:48 PM.
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