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  #31  
Old 03-26-12, 07:18 AM
TroyTrojan05 TroyTrojan05 is offline
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Originally Posted by cjeagles40 View Post
I have never heard that joke before
It's all in good fun. I mean nothing by it. Look, my opinion isnt going to change anything. Some ppl lean one way, some the other. I just honestly think there should be seperate playoffs. But the way it is now is good enough for me.
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  #32  
Old 03-26-12, 08:13 AM
Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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and a third playoff tourney for AAU players only...

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Originally Posted by TroyTrojan05 View Post
This is going off topic a bit. But all I'm saying is that some schools cant go out and recruit a 7 foot 5 star player and what have you. Some schools have little Johnny and Jimmy who grew up together and live in the same neighborhood. They should be kept seperate and FAIR. But anyways....
How about all the public school kids who pay thousands every year to participate on AAU teams, personal training, summer camps etc?

Just because they are willing to pay more for better results then perhaps OHSAA should have a separate tournament for them too?

Little Jimmy & Johnny are anachronisms.
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  #33  
Old 03-26-12, 09:14 AM
soccoachcincy soccoachcincy is offline
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Originally Posted by superfan88 View Post
Agreed MoeDude. Public schools all over Ohio have 'move-ins' and transfers for many many reasons, most of them athletic. Should Berlin Hiland have to play in the separate tourney as well since the 2nd best player on their team 'moved' into an apartment the last two years so he could play for a state championship? i'm sure that none of the kids (sarc) from Dunbar were influenced to come to play there as opposed to the other public schools in Dayton.

Did every kid from Whitmer grow up within walking distance or are some of those kids from across town near Libby or Waite? Until the p[ublic schools can address any of these issues with rational thought then they can't point the finger at any private schools who the assume recruit regardless of aany available evidence or not.
Another thing people are not discussing is the fact that the privates would have no reason to stay in OHSAA. They would be free to start their own governing body. Public schools could potentially suffer worse. That could create lots of chaos: Transfers from public wouldn't have to sit out a year, privates could openly and blatantly recruit public school kids, international students would be able to participate, etc.
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  #34  
Old 03-26-12, 10:17 AM
Track XC Track XC is offline
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I have never understood why kids have to sit out going public to private but not for private to public.
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  #35  
Old 03-26-12, 11:53 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by Monsignor View Post
How about all the public school kids who pay thousands every year to participate on AAU teams, personal training, summer camps etc?
You've got to have better than that for supporting not separating.

Me? I don't want them separated. No reason other than I like it how it is.
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  #36  
Old 03-26-12, 12:02 PM
PGEMF PGEMF is offline
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Originally Posted by soccoachcincy View Post
Another thing people are not discussing is the fact that the privates would have no reason to stay in OHSAA. They would be free to start their own governing body. Public schools could potentially suffer worse. That could create lots of chaos: Transfers from public wouldn't have to sit out a year, privates could openly and blatantly recruit public school kids, international students would be able to participate, etc.
I have been saying this for awhile now. I live in the DC area. The private schools openly and actively recruit since they are not part of the state associations in DC/MD/VA. The WCAC Champ in hoops this year (Washington Catholic Athletic Conference) was a school that hasn't had much success.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...sNS_story.html

“From a recruiting standpoint, it’s a huge factor,” Farello said. “It gives us credibility and gives them credibility as well. There is definitely an advantage for us to have that relationship and for us to have our kids play at Paul VI and Takeover. We’re not shy about that.”
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  #37  
Old 03-26-12, 12:24 PM
Summa Summa is offline
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Originally Posted by PGEMF View Post
I have been saying this for awhile now. I live in the DC area. The private schools openly and actively recruit since they are not part of the state associations in DC/MD/VA. The WCAC Champ in hoops this year (Washington Catholic Athletic Conference) was a school that hasn't had much success.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...sNS_story.html

“From a recruiting standpoint, it’s a huge factor,” Farello said. “It gives us credibility and gives them credibility as well. There is definitely an advantage for us to have that relationship and for us to have our kids play at Paul VI and Takeover. We’re not shy about that.”
I watched a DC-Baltimore Catholic league game on ESPN and in my opinion, those teams looked like they would absolutely destroy any team in Ohio. I believe it was Gonzaga vs. DeMatha and they both looked like college teams. I believe the announcers said that the schools combined had 12 DI College basketball recruits on their teams. Public schools in Ohio do very well in basketball, but if separation happens, which I think is very unlikely, Ohio privates will likely become ridiculously loaded like those DC area and NJ private schools in basketball.
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  #38  
Old 03-26-12, 12:28 PM
PGEMF PGEMF is offline
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Originally Posted by Summa View Post
I watched a DC-Baltimore Catholic league game on ESPN and in my opinion, those teams looked like they would absolutely destroy any team in Ohio. I believe it was Gonzaga vs. DeMatha and they both looked like college teams. I believe the announcers said that the schools combined had 12 DI College basketball recruits on their teams. Public schools in Ohio do very well in basketball, but if separation happens, which I think is very unlikely, Ohio privates will likely become ridiculously loaded like those DC area and NJ private schools in basketball.
Yep that was on earlier this year. The DC area has their own league (both those schools are part of the WCAC), and the Baltimore area has their own league. DeMatha is in Maryland, but is just outside the DC line. I believe the WCAC breakdown is 3 DC teams, 4 MD teams, and 3 VA teams.
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  #39  
Old 03-26-12, 01:25 PM
Jackets Fan Jackets Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Track XC View Post
I have never understood why kids have to sit out going public to private but not for private to public.
I believe this is only true with respect to one return transfer back to the original public school of residence.
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  #40  
Old 03-26-12, 01:40 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Originally Posted by Track XC View Post
I have never understood why kids have to sit out going public to private but not for private to public.
Not true. If a kid had gone to private schools and then started public school in 9th grade, he has the same right to transfer back to a private school.

One other advantage that private schools have in regards to transfers is if you move, you have only one public school that you are allowed to go to, the new district that you've moved into (no open enrollment schools) but you are free to go to any private school in the state.
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  #41  
Old 03-26-12, 02:11 PM
Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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I actually have a thousand better reasons....

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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
You've got to have better than that for supporting not separating.

Me? I don't want them separated. No reason other than I like it how it is.

However the public school supporters seem to think rich Catholic families are choosing private high schools only for the athletic benefits.

They just don't understand why it is a faith-based decision.

Actually I believe that separate playoff tournaments are inevitable in this era of participation medals.

I also believe it inevitable that soon every public school system will charge true pay-to-participate fees (i.e. $800 per sport instead of some nominal $200 fee) because the current financing method is unsustainable and the voters will not approve tax hikes.
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  #42  
Old 03-26-12, 02:15 PM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Not true. If a kid had gone to private schools and then started public school in 9th grade, he has the same right to transfer back to a private school.

One other advantage that private schools have in regards to transfers is if you move, you have only one public school that you are allowed to go to, the new district that you've moved into (no open enrollment schools) but you are free to go to any private school in the state.
You are wrong... where you went in 8th grade has nothing to do with being able or not being able to transfer. If you start at a private school in 9th grade, you can transfer back to your public school one time with no penalty. If you start at a public school in 9th grade and you decide to transfer to a private school without moving to a new school district, you must sit out one year.
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  #43  
Old 03-26-12, 02:33 PM
Cruiseman Cruiseman is offline
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Originally Posted by Monsignor View Post
However the public school supporters seem to think rich Catholic families are choosing private high schools only for the athletic benefits.

They just don't understand why it is a faith-based decision.

Actually I believe that separate playoff tournaments are inevitable in this era of participation medals.

I also believe it inevitable that soon every public school system will charge true pay-to-participate fees (i.e. $800 per sport instead of some nominal $200 fee) because the current financing method is unsustainable and the voters will not approve tax hikes.
Right! That's why LeBron and his pack went to SV, for religious/faith reasons. lol

Also, your bigger urban school districts in the state will never go PTP.
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  #44  
Old 03-26-12, 03:13 PM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by cincyhoops View Post
You are wrong... where you went in 8th grade has nothing to do with being able or not being able to transfer. If you start at a private school in 9th grade, you can transfer back to your public school one time with no penalty. If you start at a public school in 9th grade and you decide to transfer to a private school without moving to a new school district, you must sit out one year.
This is correct.
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  #45  
Old 03-26-12, 03:31 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyhoops View Post
You are wrong... where you went in 8th grade has nothing to do with being able or not being able to transfer. If you start at a private school in 9th grade, you can transfer back to your public school one time with no penalty. If you start at a public school in 9th grade and you decide to transfer to a private school without moving to a new school district, you must sit out one year.
The rules are clearly stated here:
http://www.ohsaa.org/general/about/Bylaws.pdf
Quote:
EXCEPTION 7 — A student may return to non-public education by transferring from the public
high school located in the district of residence of the parents to a non-public high school and
have her/his eligibility restored at the discretion of the Commissioner’s office provided the following
conditions have been met:
1. That the transfer from the non-public high school to the public high school was not done for
athletic reasons but for purely academic reasons or family circumstances beyond the control
of the student and/or his/her parents; and
2. The student had been continuously enrolled in the same system of non-public education
(e.g., Catholic Conference of Ohio, Ohio Association of Independent Schools, Association
of Christian School International or other category as denoted by the State Department of
Education) beginning in the 6th grade and continuing thereafter through and including the
eighth grade and either:
a) The student began grade nine in a high school within the same non-public system and
shall transfer back to that same non-public high school or
b) The student began grade nine in the public school located in the residential district of the
parents and the transfer back to a high school within the same non-public school system
in which the student was enrolled from grades 6-8 shall occur prior to the start of the
student’s tenth grade year.
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  #46  
Old 03-26-12, 04:28 PM
superfan88 superfan88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soccoachcincy View Post
Another thing people are not discussing is the fact that the privates would have no reason to stay in OHSAA. They would be free to start their own governing body. Public schools could potentially suffer worse. That could create lots of chaos: Transfers from public wouldn't have to sit out a year, privates could openly and blatantly recruit public school kids, international students would be able to participate, etc.
The OHSAA proposal that was generated by the Triway Superintendent (according to the OHSAA minutes) also proposed that it would be illegal for public schools to play against private schools that were not affiliated with the OHSAA. If that were to pass as well as the separate tournament it would all but eliminate the private schools from going and forming their association. The question would arise as to whether the private schools would be able to fill schedules with only other private schools if this rule passed and if they formed a new association


http://www.ohsaa.org/news/board/minJan12.pdf

If you scroll down to page 5 it's the first item on the page.

Public schools recruit too and have transfers other than for academic reasons. Hiland had a basketball transfer, whitmer had transfers, Dunbar had some. It'sz so hypocritical to only accuse privates, who don't all recruit, while many many many publics openly cheat.
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  #47  
Old 03-26-12, 04:31 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by Monsignor View Post
However the public school supporters seem to think rich Catholic families are choosing private high schools only for the athletic benefits.

They just don't understand why it is a faith-based decision.
You wish, I wish but no. It's a social decision. It's who they DON't want their kids sharing space with. It's who they want to have cocktails with. It's who the parent is trying to impress. It's many reasons but faith. Faith based decision? Unfortunately not enough making that decision. If it were, we would certainly see more at Mass and fewer if any non-Catholics at Catholic run institutions (not that I object, just stating).

From the kid's perspective? Again, survey. You'll see that many choose the school for athletic reasons moreso than academic or certainly moreso that faith based reasons. This idea of playing with your AAU buddies is a new thing and I think more prevalent in the public system but I have seen no survey or data to support that. It's only my impression.

I just really do not see ANYONE gaining from a further separation of society. Privates recruit. Publics responded in kind. I've no doubt this is the reality. Don't care. I like it how it is.
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  #48  
Old 03-26-12, 04:36 PM
Carl Rick Carl Rick is offline
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7 of 8 Finalists were Public....the one Private isn't Catholic so that is somewhat rare.
If had two tournaments both would suffer.
Recruiting goes on in all places...not by all but some public do as well. Obviously the major city districts have as much recruiting as the Cathlolic schools. It is great and a bigger accomplishment when hometown kids get to the Final Four without the aid of move ins/transfers. The 3 Public winners had significant transfers/move ins. Whitmer has kids from Michigan.
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  #49  
Old 03-26-12, 04:42 PM
tom 48 tom 48 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Rick View Post
7 of 8 Finalists were Public....the one Private isn't Catholic so that is somewhat rare.
If had two tournaments both would suffer.
Recruiting goes on in all places...not by all but some public do as well. Obviously the major city districts have as much recruiting as the Cathlolic schools. It is great and a bigger accomplishment when hometown kids get to the Final Four without the aid of move ins/transfers. The 3 Public winners had significant transfers/move ins. Whitmer has kids from Michigan.
Summit is Catholic. Other than that, I agree with you.
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  #50  
Old 03-26-12, 05:06 PM
Jackets Fan Jackets Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom 48 View Post
Summit is Catholic. Other than that, I agree with you.
Not a Diocese school, but "independent Catholic" nonetheless.
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  #51  
Old 03-26-12, 05:12 PM
superfan88 superfan88 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
You wish, I wish but no. It's a social decision. It's who they DON't want their kids sharing space with. It's who they want to have cocktails with. It's who the parent is trying to impress. It's many reasons but faith. Faith based decision? Unfortunately not enough making that decision. If it were, we would certainly see more at Mass and fewer if any non-Catholics at Catholic run institutions (not that I object, just stating).

From the kid's perspective? Again, survey. You'll see that many choose the school for athletic reasons moreso than academic or certainly moreso that faith based reasons. This idea of playing with your AAU buddies is a new thing and I think more prevalent in the public system but I have seen no survey or data to support that. It's only my impression.

I just really do not see ANYONE gaining from a further separation of society. Privates recruit. Publics responded in kind. I've no doubt this is the reality. Don't care. I like it how it is.
I send my kids to a private school for the faith-based education. I also send them to the private school because the education in the public school is a joke in my school district. I live in the 'city' and there is no way that I am going to send my kids to a lousy city school to get a subpar education that will result in their opportunities being adversely effected later in life. I have chosen to separate my kids because I know they will be better off getting the education they are receiving compared to the joke of an 'education' they would receive in their public school. We pay tuition and it isn't easy but it is worth every penny I pay for my kids future. I'd be willing to bet that many other parents, if they had a chance through vouchers or other financial aid, would be more than ready to get their kids out of the same situation my kids would be in. I'm not saying that every public school is poor but ours is and I'm not willing to take that chance with my kids.
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  #52  
Old 03-26-12, 05:39 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superfan88 View Post
I send my kids to a private school for the faith-based education. I also send them to the private school because...

...bunch of other stuff...
So basically,

you're agreeing with my post?
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  #53  
Old 03-26-12, 06:22 PM
Cruiseman Cruiseman is offline
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  #54  
Old 03-27-12, 07:45 AM
basketballwarrior basketballwarrior is offline
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Yes but the public

schools that are winning, well most them, all have a lot of transfers or fed by AAU prgrams so whats the difference? They might as well all be private.
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  #55  
Old 03-27-12, 08:24 AM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackets Fan View Post
Not a Diocese school, but "independent Catholic" nonetheless.
Is there some point to these efforts to properly pigeon-hole Summit Country Day? Does it matter in some way whether it's private but not Catholic, private and Catholic, private and Catholic and run by the Diocese?
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  #56  
Old 03-27-12, 08:24 AM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Privates recruit. Publics responded in kind. I've no doubt this is the reality.
Really? Methinks your history book had the first several chapters ripped out of it.
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  #57  
Old 03-27-12, 08:57 AM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
Is there some point to these efforts to properly pigeon-hole Summit Country Day? Does it matter in some way whether it's private but not Catholic, private and Catholic, private and Catholic and run by the Diocese?
Don't think it matters. I do know it costs about 18k a year to attend.
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  #58  
Old 03-27-12, 09:04 AM
Revelation Revelation is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Rick View Post
. Whitmer has kids from Michigan.
Incorrect, someone fed the same line to the OHSAA and after sitting outside of houses for 6 weeks they allowed the kids in question to continue to compete and are continuing to compete today. Don't believe everything you hear.
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  #59  
Old 03-27-12, 09:29 AM
Jackets Fan Jackets Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
Incorrect, someone fed the same line to the OHSAA and after sitting outside of houses for 6 weeks they allowed the kids in question to continue to compete and are continuing to compete today. Don't believe everything you hear.
No one I'm aware of has charged the basketball team with Michigan players. it has a different transfer issue.
Football is another matter with respect to Michigan.
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  #60  
Old 03-27-12, 09:57 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackets Fan View Post
No one I'm aware of has charged the basketball team with Michigan players. it has a different transfer issue.
Football is another matter with respect to Michigan.
So

cough up some names. You wouldn't want to be accused of casting unfounded accusations would you?



Quote:
Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
Really? Methinks your history book had the first several chapters ripped out of it.
You know you're not supposed to think. It's gone wrong for you so many times in the past....

Seriously, yeah I don't think the recruiting thing can be ordered but in a do-over statement, let me say that back when parish schools were parish schools I think the public company run teams would have been the recruiters over the local parish schools but in general, the privates went non-local before the publics went open enrollment so... semantics who was first.
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