So far they have the top 20 up and will continue to add each week. Congrats to all the players. Your dedication has got you to this point, keep up the hard work and good luck at the next level.
How do they rank these kids? Is speed the most important factor? When you have many good players, like these kids are, I would think a lot of these rankings are very subjective because what if you hit really well but someone is better defensively or your agility is good but your speed isn't below a 7. Do pitchers automatically get ranked higher than position players? Do they take grades into consideration? Do the college coaches look at this or by this time, have they already selected their players? Just curious.
Fish does a good job of identifying the invitees. Many of them were also recommended by college coaches and scouts to be in attendance. The event includes all the showcase activities, including running the 60, defense and arm strength, and BP.
The pitchers show their stuff in the games played. All of this info is compiled along with whatever information has been accumulated already.
One thing for sure, all these kids are talented and should be congratulated.
wow, i thought nastold would be #1 in this class for sure
I wouldn't worry much about where they are ranked. They are all pretty good and as long as they get to a college that really wants them, and the player wants the college it is all good. I agree with BENSPAPA that Fish does a very good job getting the right kids there. He is pretty in tune with the College coaches, High School caoches and some other well known sources.
I wouldn't worry much about where they are ranked. They are all pretty good and as long as they get to a college that really wants them, and the player wants the college it is all good. I agree with BENSPAPA that Fish does a very good job getting the right kids there. He is pretty in tune with the College coaches, High School caoches and some other well known sources.
Are these players who have attended a showcase in Northern Ohio. It seems to be missing some very strong players from Southern Ohio.
i think ryan curl is the best player in ohio for the class of 08'. throws 90+ from the outfield and runs a 6.2 60. i think the rankings are pretty accurate
Exactly! Where's Randy Jones at? or Jimmy Brennamen, he was first team all-state as a junior last season! None of these guys were on the first team, except Curl but thats D-2!BJ Willis, who was a big key for princeton's success last year, committed to UC and cant crack the top 20? If there not basing things off of accomplishments Colt Cattani should be on there even though he didn't have the best spring last year, but can play with the best of them any given day..
I still think a lot of these rankings are very subjective; no matter how good of an eye for talent these scouts may have, they can't measure work ethic, how hard a certain kid is going to work to improve over the course of several years (lifting, speed training, etc.), how focused they'll be, etc. These intangibles are very important. I think they are just as important, if not even more important, than, say, how fast a kid is clocked in his senior year of high school. How can someone say one kid is #64 on the list and another is #77 when they may play completely different positions, etc.? Don't get me wrong, though. I'm sure all of these kids are extremely talented, and they all deserve to be there. Congratulations to all of them.
I also believe every kid on the list is a very talented player and the other 80 named to the top 100 will be talented players also. Some will be way over rated and some will be way under rated. Additionally, there will be players not on the top 100 list that are very talented players. Unfortunately that is the way it goes with rankings and even with college recruiting. Baseball is a game that you must see players a number of times to really see their talent against top competition. A player can look great one day and average the next depending on the competition. Some players rise to the occasion to make the big play or get the big hit against the best players and are always in the right spot, others only excel against competition that is not up to the highest standards and are not fundamentally sound which hurts them against top competition. It is very judgemental and based also on 60 times, height, weight and reputations as told by people that are not always biased. Some players have the advantage of having coaches that talk them up to scouts, dad's that run organizations that use their connections with scouting organizations to talk their kid up and/or get them exposure they normally wouldn't earn on their own merits, etc.
Rankings are neat to look at and talk about but the key for players is to continue to get better and to learn more about the game as that will ultimately lead to continued success at whatever college/pro level a player plays at.
I agree. Also, I'm sure there are some very good ballplayers who weren't even invited to this showcase (and who should have been) for whatever reason. It helps for the player to have someone in their corner who will help them reach the next level. There are some very talented players out there who, for some reason, just don't get the recognition they deserve.
i think ryan curl is the best player in ohio for the class of 08'. throws 90+ from the outfield and runs a 6.2 60. i think the rankings are pretty accurate
Ryan Curl is in good company with Carl Lewis 6.12 in the 60 held the World Record for years and Lee Mcrae who holds the World Record at 5.99 in the 60.
Where did the 6.2 time come from for Ryan Curl. I heard Miami had him at 6.5. If that is the case Randy Jones was timed at Midland in the Champion's Summer Showcase at a legit 6.46 and 6.47 respectively beating another strong Speedster Jimmy Brenneman at the same camp. I think is was Randy, Jimmy and Dorian West with the best times. Dorian is in the Top 100 but Randy Jones and Jimmy Brenneman should be there too. Both these young men play on top level summer programs, hit for power and are strong on the base paths.
I agree with BensPapa. Fish does a very good job with the list. His Top 10 will be very accurate from year to year. The evaluation is not solely based upon the players performance at the Buckeye Scout events. I've seen several situations where some of the players in the Top 3 didn't even show-up at the August showcase due to committments elsewhere. Your always going to have good players that may not be ranked where they feel they should be ranked, but Fish does a good job of talking with high school, college, and pro scouts who have seen these kids on several different occasions. What I also see are several Ohio players who play in weak conferences with bloated stats vs. inferior competition. As a result, these players, their friends, and their mom's and dad's all believe they are All Ohio.
The scouts don't lie. Fish has a good network of contacts in the state who do a fair evaluation of the talent in the state.
Gentlemen, what is the point of arguing a kids speed. Don't get into petty arguments over something so trivial. Either a kid is fast, or he's not. I'm sure your not going to be arguing with a college coach during an official visit that "my son can really run a 6.2, despite you having him at 6.45". It's like alot of posters getting on here saying that "I've seen this kid throw 90+mph, he's been seen by alot of pro scouts, he's got interest from several top D1 programs, etc. etc.". There just aren't many of these kids out there. If there are, don't worry you will hear plenty about them, and the scouts will be fully aware of their talent level. As a rule of thumb, I never believe what anyone writes on these boards about a kid running a certain time, or throwing a ball at a certain mph, etc. And when I read about a kid hitting for a .600+ batting average, or hitting 15+ HR's, my first thought is that his high school team most likely is playing against some pretty crappy competition, in a pretty crappy league. I'm not saying it never happens, but when those types of kids come along, your going to see them playing at a Top D1 school and starting their Freshman season, and/or being drafted by the pros in the Top 5 rounds.
Where did the 6.2 time come from for Ryan Curl. I heard Miami had him at 6.5. If that is the case Randy Jones was timed at Midland in the Champion's Summer Showcase at a legit 6.46 and 6.47 respectively beating another strong Speedster Jimmy Brenneman at the same camp. I think is was Randy, Jimmy and Dorian West with the best times. Dorian is in the Top 100 but Randy Jones and Jimmy Brenneman should be there too. Both these young men play on top level summer programs, hit for power and are strong on the base paths.
curl has been clocked 3 times running under a 6.30.. his best was a 6.23.
Just to note the American Indoor (55meter) record is 6.0. This was done on an indoor rubber track in a highly competitive situation in 1986 with electronic timing. This person had indoor spikes and started with blocks for added explosion. (55 meters is 60 yards 5 inches). High schoolers that run 6.3 or less on grass from an upright start should train to be Olympic runners. Point is these players are very fast but times are not exact and not near a 6.2.
It seems like coaches are so obsessed with speed - why not pick a young man because he's a good ball player? What good is speed if the kid isn't a good hitter or a smart baserunner or isn't agile at scooping the balls to make the plays? Track stars do not necessarily equate into good baseball players and this is where scouts and coaches are making their biggest mistakes. Just my 2 cents worth!
Speed and arm strength can't be taught. Hitting, defense, base running, playing the game, etc. can be taught in their opinion. Not saying it is right, just the way it is viewed.
It seems like coaches are so obsessed with speed - why not pick a young man because he's a good ball player? What good is speed if the kid isn't a good hitter or a smart baserunner or isn't agile at scooping the balls to make the plays? Track stars do not necessarily equate into good baseball players and this is where scouts and coaches are making their biggest mistakes. Just my 2 cents worth!
most scouts look at potential and if you run a 6.5 or under and throw 90+ from the outfield you can't teach that.. you can teach a kid how to hit and field better..
most scouts look at potential and if you run a 6.5 or under and throw 90+ from the outfield you can't teach that.. you can teach a kid how to hit and field better..
I disagree. Some young men will never be good hitters - and they can take all the lessons in the world. It all has to do with hand/eye coordination plus timing. If you can teach hitting, why do we keep hearing about all these college coaches pissing and moaning that their bats were cold which is why they lost the game? It's because the batters can't hit; what good is running like a track star if you can't ever get on base? I'm not saying speed isn't important - but it seems like on these threads, some coaches are obsessed with it.
I disagree. Some young men will never be good hitters - and they can take all the lessons in the world. It all has to do with hand/eye coordination plus timing. If you can teach hitting, why do we keep hearing about all these college coaches pissing and moaning that their bats were cold which is why they lost the game? It's because the batters can't hit; what good is running like a track star if you can't ever get on base? I'm not saying speed isn't important - but it seems like on these threads, some coaches are obsessed with it.
i agree that a kid who is fast and can throw and cant hit at all shouldnt get the same chances as a kid who has average speed who can throw and hit.. but if it comes down to a kid being an average hitter with great speed and a great arm most coaches or scouts are going to put them ahead of a kid who can hit and has a good arm but is slow.. b.c coaches and scouts beleive that hitting can be improved a lot easier than speed and they can't teach speed. speed is a big part of baseball and can change a lot of games
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