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  #1  
Old 09-15-17, 06:53 PM
the kid the kid is offline
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Hoover - its time

To start over and get a new coach. Who would be a good replacement? Baum just isn't fitting in. At this game and Hoover looks so weak.
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  #2  
Old 09-15-17, 09:10 PM
Levi Levi is offline
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Idiot Hartenstein ruined Hoover Athletics. If Hoover cares at all about Revenue Sports I think there may be a need for a change not just Football.

I was interested to see how this went this season. Baum's 1st season saw two 6 point wins vs meager opponents. In year 2 Hoover started 3-0 lost 4 straight then won 2 of 3 to finish at 500. Going back to Glass and Hertler Jr. their first years were 4-6 and 5-5, both improved quite a bit in their second season and third. Maybe if Hoover turns this around and manages 6 or 7 wins and gets into the playoffs then my opinion changes. After the past 2 weeks I see McKinley and Jackson being almost impossible wins. Perry and Hartley they are underdogs. Green and Lake are probably pickems.
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  #3  
Old 09-15-17, 09:26 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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6 wins is still doable, and that would mean playoffs. 7 would be a very tall order. I think Lake is a win -- they're rudderless without their QB. Perry, Bishop Hartley, and Green need to be circled on the calendar starting today, since they're not going to do anything but run at you. I think that's the only way forward this season.

I'd get rid of him at 5-5 or less. There has been progress, but not enough.
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  #4  
Old 09-16-17, 08:19 AM
my2sense my2sense is offline
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"After an impressive first week I'm more convinced this team will win at least 7 and play somewhere week 11." - y2h 2 weeks ago.

McK is next up. Hoover usually plays them tough. If Hoover doesn't come to play it could be ugly.

Tough times at NCH. Lot of negatives around the sports programs right now.
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  #5  
Old 09-16-17, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
6 wins is still doable, and that would mean playoffs. 7 would be a very tall order. I think Lake is a win -- they're rudderless without their QB. Perry, Bishop Hartley, and Green need to be circled on the calendar starting today, since they're not going to do anything but run at you. I think that's the only way forward this season.

I'd get rid of him at 5-5 or less. There has been progress, but not enough.
On paper, I see quite a bit of progress from 2016 to this season.

Last year, Hoover struggled to beat Brush and Louisville and they got shut out by GlenOak (28-0).

This year, they were three TDs better on offense and one TD worse on defense (+2) against Brush and Louisville, and with better clock management, had a chance to send GlenOak to overtime or beat them.

If they stay healthy, 6-7 wins are doable, which is probably good enough for a post season game.
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  #6  
Old 09-16-17, 09:33 AM
Red Right 88 Red Right 88 is offline
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Only Week #4

The annual victory over Jackson will provide a lot of computer points this year. They aren't sunk yet.
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  #7  
Old 09-16-17, 09:42 AM
BHSspartans13 BHSspartans13 is offline
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There are only 6 teams with a 3-1 or better record in Region 7. Hoover even hovering at .500 with an upset here or there will be in the picture for a spot.
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  #8  
Old 09-16-17, 02:10 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Originally Posted by just a fan View Post
On paper, I see quite a bit of progress from 2016 to this season.
It's true that Hoover hasn't been embarrassed or anything like that. They've had a chance to win both games they lost. Even if they ultimately end up with a losing record, they'll be better than a couple teams that do make it in Region 7.

But Brush and Louisville are not good teams. We'll see about GlenOak, they may be decent. From outside the program, you can only guess about much of why a particular team succeeds or fails. Maybe Baum is getting everything he can out of his team, but I'm skeptical. The thing that sticks out to me is the lack of consistent production from the offense, something that has only barely improved since Baum took over. Basically next-to-no yardage for three quarters against East and one half against GlenOak. That's with a third-year QB. More likely than not, Hoover starts being unable to pull off comebacks.

Best of luck to them, hope they win every game but week 10.
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  #9  
Old 09-16-17, 02:10 PM
Levi Levi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just a fan View Post
On paper, I see quite a bit of progress from 2016 to this season.

Last year, Hoover struggled to beat Brush and Louisville and they got shut out by GlenOak (28-0).

This year, they were three TDs better on offense and one TD worse on defense (+2) against Brush and Louisville, and with better clock management, had a chance to send GlenOak to overtime or beat them.

If they stay healthy, 6-7 wins are doable, which is probably good enough for a post season game.
Yeah but Louisville is pretty bad this year considering the type of teams they have fielded. Brush hasn't lost since then and beat Mayfield by a similar margin that Jackson did (13 points vs 18 points). Brush was seemingly ahead two TD's most of the game. Still imagine Jackson running clocks Brush or something along those lines.
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  #10  
Old 09-16-17, 02:21 PM
Levi Levi is offline
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Originally Posted by BHSspartans13 View Post
There are only 6 teams with a 3-1 or better record in Region 7. Hoover even hovering at .500 with an upset here or there will be in the picture for a spot.
Yeah, I agree with Jacksonfan03 in that Hoover needs to win 6 to get in. It is possible but hard to be optimistic. If I projected the season I see it as this:

Canton McKinley Heavy underdog
Perry slight underdog
Lake favorite (road game so still raises ?'s but Lake's O is struggling)
Green slight favorite
Bishop Hartley slight underdog
Jackson Underdog

I would project 4-6 or 5-5, leaning 5-5 I expect wins vs Lake and Green. Perry and Hartley despite at home I feel Hoover will be fortunate to earn a split. McKinley is one of those games I just hope they don't get embrassed. Jackson is a rivalry and you never know because the favorite loses quite often in the series and their D showed up last night.

Brush has been a pleasant surprise winning 3 in a row and they may very well contend for a playoff spot as their sked is pretty weak. Louisville stole one from Marlington but now they will feed on the Sisters of the Poor in the NBC. There should be some quality L2's coming there. Green and Lake may bring literally no additional L2's except when they face off and Hoover is by no way a definitive favorite
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  #11  
Old 09-16-17, 03:43 PM
WhatsupDoc WhatsupDoc is offline
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I think Hoover will beat Lake. Lake sounds like this might be the a very very down year for them. Hoover will beat Green because they always have. And I think Hoover will beat Perry because it sounds like Perry didn't play anyone in the non conference. Hoover could go at worse 5 and 5 and not beat a team that we shouldn't beat. Could 5 and 5 make the playoffs?
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  #12  
Old 09-17-17, 04:10 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Originally Posted by WhatsupDoc View Post
I think Hoover will beat Lake. Lake sounds like this might be the a very very down year for them. Hoover will beat Green because they always have. And I think Hoover will beat Perry because it sounds like Perry didn't play anyone in the non conference. Hoover could go at worse 5 and 5 and not beat a team that we shouldn't beat. Could 5 and 5 make the playoffs?
There are some interesting scenarios on Fantastic 50. If Hoover would beat Perry/Lake/Green or Lake/Green/Jackson they'd have about a 50% shot of getting in. He doesn't show any wins over Bishop Hartley, but that would obviously up their chances even more.

I'm skeptical that Hoover beats Perry, even though I think Hoover might end up being a better team by the end of the season. Perry still has a crushing run defense, and Keller has yet to top 135 yards passing this year in a single game. I could see Hoover beating Jackson, that's a given in that rivalry, but I think it's less likely than last year. I would not sleep on Green. They've shown some ability to be dynamic and some defense with a lot of new young players.
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  #13  
Old 09-17-17, 07:13 PM
HSFballFan1 HSFballFan1 is offline
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I have lived in many different cities in Ohio throughout the years and am an avid Ohio high school football fan. While moving around I have followed many high school football teams. I have always used Yappi as a way to follow the different teams throughout the state. I have never posted but the title of this thread has sickened me. I now live in North Canton and, by default, have become a Vikings fan. I have witnessed the end of Hertler’s regime and the beginning of Baum’s. To think it’s time to fire Baum after 2 ľ year is absolutely ludicrous! It is the most Cleveland Browns move that Hoover can make and would be a direct reflection on the impatience of today’s society. Just some food for thought when discussing Baum’s early tenure with the Vikings:

1. Hertler was a fantastic coach and will likely end up in the OHSAA Hall of Fame, but let’s not pretend that he was exactly setting the world on fire toward the end of his career. He left the cupboard absolutely bare when he retired. To see the progress that has taken place within the program in just two years, to me, has been pretty remarkable. Baum catches a bad rep because he came in the same year as Reardon and Budd (they have both been pretty successful). Reardon inherited McKinley after the merger which resulted in one of the largest division 1 schools in the state and a Division 1 recruit at QB. Budd inherited a team that had gone 6-4 the year before (if I remember correctly) with one of the best athletic classes in Jackson history returning and, again, a Division 1 recruit at QB. Baum inherited a 3-7 team that did not win a federal league game and one of those wins was against a Canadian team. It’s apples and oranges.

2. Some are comparing Baum’s first few years to Glass and Hertler’s first few years. I don’t know much about the league history but I would be surprised if the league was as strong then as it is now. Perry has been a state finalist the past two years. GlenOak is consistently qualifying for the division 1 playoffs. Jackson has been the best they have been in a long time. McKinley was not in the league then, let alone merged with Timken. And Lake is still Lake. I could be completely off base, but the schedule Baum is currently facing is far superior than Hertler or Glass had to face at the beginning of their careers. The gimmie game was supposed to be Akron East, and they may be one of the best teams in division 3!
3. Lastly, the progress is there. The last two years Hoover played close games with Brush and Louisville, and this year they smoked both teams. Brush is looking to be pretty solid as the season goes on. Many have said this is a bad Louisville team, but I have seen some pretty bad Hoover teams give some pretty good Louisville teams a run for their money. Hoover lost by a score to Akron East that has a collection of division 1 talent and is one of the more impressive teams I’ve seen in awhile from a talent standpoint. Some are upset because Jackson beat them in week 1. But we need to understand East is the type of team that will get better and better as the year goes on. I wish Hoover could have played them in week 1 rather than week 3, it may have been pretty similar to the Jackson result. Then Hoover lost by a score to GlenOak after getting completely dominated last year 28-0. If you don’t call that progress than you’re clueless. I’m almost certain this thread was started in the first half of the GO game, because the 2nd half was completely dominated by the Vikings. It’s true right now that the Vikings aren’t playing 4 full quarters, but when they get it figured out they will be dangerous!

I think the reason I am so passionate about this is because I have seen a lot of high school football through the years and Baum is doing things the right way! The progress is there by the numbers. You can visually see the progress of the program in the way the players look physically from year 1 to year 3. Opposing federal league coaches have been very complimentary in the paper. I have spoken to some parents of players and they have told me important things are being established within the program, such as, hard work and accountability. I have read articles this year where the players have talked about a brotherhood. Those of us that have played high school football know that is more important than wins and losses in the long run. And those of us that have been around it know that once those traits get established within a program, the wins soon follow.

Last point I’ll make in defense of Baum. If you look at his Fredericktown records the patterns are eerily similar to what is going on at Hoover right now. A couple building years and then a big year right after. I think if we can be patient as a fan base, the Vikings will be back to competing for Federal League titles in the next couple years. He at least deserves a fair shake and 3 years isn’t that. The games this year have been the most exciting since 2012. Good luck to the Vikings the rest of the year and to all the teams in Stark County. Some of the best football around!

Last edited by HSFballFan1; 09-17-17 at 07:50 PM.
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  #14  
Old 09-17-17, 09:17 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSFballFan1 View Post
Budd inherited a team that had gone 6-4 the year before (if I remember correctly) with one of the best athletic classes in Jackson history returning and, again, a Division 1 recruit at QB. Baum inherited a 3-7 team that did not win a federal league game and one of those wins was against a Canadian team. Itís apples and oranges.
There were two Pallottas -- the older one I think was in his senior year when Budd arrived. Balderson's last team in 2014 was senior-heavy and a completely different crew that mostly revolved around the RB (name escapes me). Budd pretty much had to start with all new faces his first year. I don't disagree that he's lucky he got the QB he did for 2016 and the current year.

Quote:
Lastly, the progress is there. The last two years Hoover played close games with Brush and Louisville, and this year they smoked both teams. Brush is looking to be pretty solid as the season goes on. Many have said this is a bad Louisville team, but I have seen some pretty bad Hoover teams give some pretty good Louisville teams a run for their money. Hoover lost by a score to Akron East that has a collection of division 1 talent and is one of the more impressive teams Iíve seen in awhile from a talent standpoint. Some are upset because Jackson beat them in week 1. But we need to understand East is the type of team that will get better and better as the year goes on. I wish Hoover could have played them in week 1 rather than week 3, it may have been pretty similar to the Jackson result. Then Hoover lost by a score to GlenOak after getting completely dominated last year 28-0. If you donít call that progress than youíre clueless.
I agree that there is progress, but I think we might disagree about the amount. GlenOak is a an inexperienced team, they're not directly comparable to last year's team. And I don't think there's any way the result changes if Hoover plays East in week 1 or week 3 -- Jackson was able to do what they did because they have a bigger and more experienced offensive line than Hoover does and a superior quarterback. There really aren't many scenarios in which Hoover beats East -- the final score could have and most of the time would have been worse.

Quote:
Last point Iíll make in defense of Baum. If you look at his Fredericktown records the patterns are eerily similar to what is going on at Hoover right now. A couple building years and then a big year right after. I think if we can be patient as a fan base, the Vikings will be back to competing for Federal League titles in the next couple years. He at least deserves a fair shake and 3 years isnít that.
Just by a quick glance at Hoover's roster, they look like they have a lot of the linebacker corps and so on returning, but will graduate the skill players. So, they could be in a good position in 2018/2019 if they find some playmakers to replace those who graduate.

I think you've got to be careful about hanging on too long to a coach that might have a low ceiling. Not saying that's Baum, but generally the pattern in his first three years seems to be hot-and-cold offense and middling-to-bad defense. Whether a fair shake is three years or five, I don't know. There are very worrying signs in Hoover's last two games, and I think it's fair to say the bad is outweighing the good right now. I still think the season could turn around, but if you're at 3-7/4-6 and your total body of work is around .333 after three years, which is a definite possibility, can you justify keeping him? We'll see how the rest of the season plays out. It's tough to be a rebuilder. I agree about Hertler -- his final game in 2014 was a rare loss to Jackson, and his direct quote to the Repository after the game was a very telling "I'm not leaving because the cupboard is bare." Years in the weight room were going to have to happen, and Baum would be compared negatively to Hertler no matter what.

Good luck to the Vikings.
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  #15  
Old 09-17-17, 09:56 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSFballFan1 View Post
I have lived in many different cities in Ohio throughout the years and am an avid Ohio high school football fan. While moving around I have followed many high school football teams. I have always used Yappi as a way to follow the different teams throughout the state. I have never posted but the title of this thread has sickened me. I now live in North Canton and, by default, have become a Vikings fan. I have witnessed the end of Hertlerís regime and the beginning of Baumís. To think itís time to fire Baum after 2 ľ year is absolutely ludicrous! It is the most Cleveland Browns move that Hoover can make and would be a direct reflection on the impatience of todayís society. Just some food for thought when discussing Baumís early tenure with the Vikings:

1. Hertler was a fantastic coach and will likely end up in the OHSAA Hall of Fame, but letís not pretend that he was exactly setting the world on fire toward the end of his career. He left the cupboard absolutely bare when he retired. To see the progress that has taken place within the program in just two years, to me, has been pretty remarkable. Baum catches a bad rep because he came in the same year as Reardon and Budd (they have both been pretty successful). Reardon inherited McKinley after the merger which resulted in one of the largest division 1 schools in the state and a Division 1 recruit at QB. Budd inherited a team that had gone 6-4 the year before (if I remember correctly) with one of the best athletic classes in Jackson history returning and, again, a Division 1 recruit at QB. Baum inherited a 3-7 team that did not win a federal league game and one of those wins was against a Canadian team. Itís apples and oranges.

2. Some are comparing Baumís first few years to Glass and Hertlerís first few years. I donít know much about the league history but I would be surprised if the league was as strong then as it is now. Perry has been a state finalist the past two years. GlenOak is consistently qualifying for the division 1 playoffs. Jackson has been the best they have been in a long time. McKinley was not in the league then, let alone merged with Timken. And Lake is still Lake. I could be completely off base, but the schedule Baum is currently facing is far superior than Hertler or Glass had to face at the beginning of their careers. The gimmie game was supposed to be Akron East, and they may be one of the best teams in division 3!
3. Lastly, the progress is there. The last two years Hoover played close games with Brush and Louisville, and this year they smoked both teams. Brush is looking to be pretty solid as the season goes on. Many have said this is a bad Louisville team, but I have seen some pretty bad Hoover teams give some pretty good Louisville teams a run for their money. Hoover lost by a score to Akron East that has a collection of division 1 talent and is one of the more impressive teams Iíve seen in awhile from a talent standpoint. Some are upset because Jackson beat them in week 1. But we need to understand East is the type of team that will get better and better as the year goes on. I wish Hoover could have played them in week 1 rather than week 3, it may have been pretty similar to the Jackson result. Then Hoover lost by a score to GlenOak after getting completely dominated last year 28-0. If you donít call that progress than youíre clueless. Iím almost certain this thread was started in the first half of the GO game, because the 2nd half was completely dominated by the Vikings. Itís true right now that the Vikings arenít playing 4 full quarters, but when they get it figured out they will be dangerous!

I think the reason I am so passionate about this is because I have seen a lot of high school football through the years and Baum is doing things the right way! The progress is there by the numbers. You can visually see the progress of the program in the way the players look physically from year 1 to year 3. Opposing federal league coaches have been very complimentary in the paper. I have spoken to some parents of players and they have told me important things are being established within the program, such as, hard work and accountability. I have read articles this year where the players have talked about a brotherhood. Those of us that have played high school football know that is more important than wins and losses in the long run. And those of us that have been around it know that once those traits get established within a program, the wins soon follow.

Last point Iíll make in defense of Baum. If you look at his Fredericktown records the patterns are eerily similar to what is going on at Hoover right now. A couple building years and then a big year right after. I think if we can be patient as a fan base, the Vikings will be back to competing for Federal League titles in the next couple years. He at least deserves a fair shake and 3 years isnít that. The games this year have been the most exciting since 2012. Good luck to the Vikings the rest of the year and to all the teams in Stark County. Some of the best football around!
This sickens you....how do you feel about lowered expectations.

3rd year of Baum's program, 3rd year starting QB, one of the top RBs in the area, more size than Hoover has worked with in a few years...is at least making the playoffs an unreasonable expectation?

You say give it a few more years...so we can expect playoffs in year 5...6....7? Sounds like a Browns rebuilding plan.

Is calling for a change premature, perhaps...by Baum's own admission following the GO game it isn't good enough. A team that has truly turned the corner probably finds a way to take advantage of the opportunities they were handed vs East.....probably finds a way to beat a young GO still searching for an identity.

We've got 6 games left to make a statement, to truly demonstrate progress. We'll see what happens.
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  #16  
Old 09-18-17, 11:15 AM
starkfan36 starkfan36 is offline
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I would tend to agree with much of what HSFballFan1 had to say.
This year's Hoover team has shown growth compared to results from the past two seasons.

More importantly, though, what is the relationship like with the players and coaches?
If, in fact, the players are getting stronger in the weight room and dispensing beatings to a Brush team that is 3-1 and putting up big weeks, a flat out drubbing to a Louisville team that hadn't been beaten in Louisville since 2013, a loss to a good East team, and a close, late loss to a Glenoak team that destroyed Hoover last year, why shouldn't Baum get more time?
Has he developed a good team dynamic? Do the players respond well to him and his staff? Or is the importance of developing relationships with young men no longer a consideration in whether to retain a coach or not?

And if I'm not mistaken, the North Canton district has been in such financial distress that they have been laying teachers off. How does Baum bring in quality coaches if there are no positions to give them?

And perhaps more importantly, if the district is in the financial distress that it has been reported to be, what teaching position do you give to an incoming head coach if you are planning to get rid of Baum?

Simply put, there aren't any positions to give. My understanding is that if the upcoming levy doesn't pass, many teachers in the district would lose jobs. If that's true, what do you offer the new head coach? And if you find a way to get a new coach in, what assistant could he bring? The answer most likely would be none.

Given the current state of what is going on over in North Canton, I might just let this season play out before I would go calling for the coach's head.
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Old 09-18-17, 12:12 PM
Money Ball Money Ball is offline
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Agree. Everyone wants to see immediate progress when you are brought in. While I think there are certain aspects you can look to if you want to see improvement and most of them probably don't really have anything to do wit hWins and Losses. For instance:

1- As starkfan mentioned, how do the kids respond to the HC and the assistants? Do they respond? Are they doing the little things that are required, or are they blowing off the instruction and doing their own thing?

2- Are they disciplined? Do they carry themselves with poise and face adversity with a head held high and an attitude of "No Quit!". Are they making dumb penalties, such as jumping offside, moving early on offense, late hits, facemasks, and unsportsmanlike conduct penalties? To me, these penalties are HUGE in seeing the development of a program. Of course some will happen, but being disciplined and poised is a definitive reflection of the coaches and how the players respond to their instruction.

3- Are the players doing what they need to off the field, especially during the off-season? Are they hitting the weight room, hitting the books, and building relationships of caring for their teammates, school and community? This is also huge. A team that shows community pride and a purpose of civic-mindedness will get incredible support from the community. There is nothing more encouraging, for me, than hearing about a quality football player who goes above and beyond off the field, gets excellent grades, and is well-respected by his teachers and peers.

I think it is so much more than just Wins and losses, so let's not jump the gun. It is high school football everyone, these coaches are not making $3-$4 Million dollars to coach. They are dealing with young, and often immature kids and they are dealing with the ones that have to work with within the school hallways. They do not get to go out and recruit them, unlike the privates and another school in Stark County......
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  #18  
Old 09-18-17, 06:00 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starkfan36 View Post
I would tend to agree with much of what HSFballFan1 had to say.
This year's Hoover team has shown growth compared to results from the past two seasons.

More importantly, though, what is the relationship like with the players and coaches?
If, in fact, the players are getting stronger in the weight room and dispensing beatings to a Brush team that is 3-1 and putting up big weeks, a flat out drubbing to a Louisville team that hadn't been beaten in Louisville since 2013, a loss to a good East team, and a close, late loss to a Glenoak team that destroyed Hoover last year, why shouldn't Baum get more time?
Has he developed a good team dynamic? Do the players respond well to him and his staff? Or is the importance of developing relationships with young men no longer a consideration in whether to retain a coach or not?

And if I'm not mistaken, the North Canton district has been in such financial distress that they have been laying teachers off. How does Baum bring in quality coaches if there are no positions to give them?

And perhaps more importantly, if the district is in the financial distress that it has been reported to be, what teaching position do you give to an incoming head coach if you are planning to get rid of Baum?

Simply put, there aren't any positions to give. My understanding is that if the upcoming levy doesn't pass, many teachers in the district would lose jobs. If that's true, what do you offer the new head coach? And if you find a way to get a new coach in, what assistant could he bring? The answer most likely would be none.

Given the current state of what is going on over in North Canton, I might just let this season play out before I would go calling for the coach's head.
They are talking about knocking down every building in the district save the high school and building new ones...that's what the terrible levy is for. We aren't in financial distress.

As for assistants Baum has brought in his own staff...I guess they didn't have trouble finding positions.

Immediate progress? It's the 3rd year of the program, it should be pretty well in place. Hertler’s second year was a playoff year. Glass's 4th year was a state runner up. Of course all coaches face different challenges but the idea a program can't be established quickly is false.

Sure it takes time to build a program, to learn the kids abilities, for the kids to learn the system and what is expected of them..we are beyond that now. Expectations of being at least one of the top 8 teams in the region shouldnt be too much.

Yea Brush is 3-1...look who they beat (thanks for the L2s though) Louisville is struggling big time...even in their win they gave up 34. (But at least we ended the drought at their place) East is decent but gave us multiple opportunities we didn't capitalize on. Glenoak played well at home as I knew they would but it's a young time still trying to find themselves, Hoover should have been able to find a way to win.

Comparing high school results between two teams year over year is sort of a useless exercise in measuring progress with the amount of turnover in personnel that typically occurs. It doesn't matter if they played a more competitive game with Glenoak this year...it isn't the same GO team. And by that metric if you compare Akron East scores it would show regression.

Bottom line is it too soon to make a determination on Baum's future...this thread is certainly premature. it doesn't mean the seat cant get a little warm. This is a big week...if we can find a way to compete and hopefully beat a very good McKinley team all this talk goes away; we get run off our own field, not a good sign.

Last edited by y2h; 09-18-17 at 08:29 PM.
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  #19  
Old 09-18-17, 09:04 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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As for assistants Baum has brought in his own staff...I guess they didn't have trouble finding positions.
This to me sounds like the biggest problem. The defense immediately tanked when Baum came in. Hertler's were good in the crappy years. The old 5-3 that Hoover was famous for. Did the DC change? I know they're in a spread defense this year.

Still think the jury is out on this year's defense, though. They seem at least serviceable, but Green/Perry/Hartley will tell the tale.
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  #20  
Old 09-18-17, 09:15 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Agree. Everyone wants to see immediate progress when you are brought in. While I think there are certain aspects you can look to if you want to see improvement and most of them probably don't really have anything to do wit hWins and Losses. For instance:

1- As starkfan mentioned, how do the kids respond to the HC and the assistants? Do they respond? Are they doing the little things that are required, or are they blowing off the instruction and doing their own thing?

2- Are they disciplined? Do they carry themselves with poise and face adversity with a head held high and an attitude of "No Quit!". Are they making dumb penalties, such as jumping offside, moving early on offense, late hits, facemasks, and unsportsmanlike conduct penalties? To me, these penalties are HUGE in seeing the development of a program. Of course some will happen, but being disciplined and poised is a definitive reflection of the coaches and how the players respond to their instruction.

3- Are the players doing what they need to off the field, especially during the off-season? Are they hitting the weight room, hitting the books, and building relationships of caring for their teammates, school and community? This is also huge. A team that shows community pride and a purpose of civic-mindedness will get incredible support from the community. There is nothing more encouraging, for me, than hearing about a quality football player who goes above and beyond off the field, gets excellent grades, and is well-respected by his teachers and peers.

I think it is so much more than just Wins and losses, so let's not jump the gun. It is high school football everyone, these coaches are not making $3-$4 Million dollars to coach. They are dealing with young, and often immature kids and they are dealing with the ones that have to work with within the school hallways. They do not get to go out and recruit them, unlike the privates and another school in Stark County......
This in right on the money!
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  #21  
Old 09-19-17, 05:45 PM
jtigerjoe jtigerjoe is offline
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This in right on the money!
So, if a coach brings players with him from his previous school to his new job, it's not recruiting. Or if you steal a quarterback from Northwest, that's not recruiting? Just curious, I wasn't sure how it works in the Fed. They have different guidelines.
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Old 09-19-17, 07:15 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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So, if a coach brings players with him from his previous school to his new job, it's not recruiting. Or if you steal a quarterback from Northwest, that's not recruiting? Just curious, I wasn't sure how it works in the Fed. They have different guidelines.
It doesn't work any different in the Federal League. I can only assume the OHSAA was advised of and looked at the situation with the players coming from Baum's old team (and I admit, it looked suspicious). To my knowledge, Hoover got in no trouble from that. I'm aware of only one local school caught recruiting in the last few years and that was Massillon.
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Old 09-20-17, 07:50 AM
jtigerjoe jtigerjoe is offline
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It doesn't work any different in the Federal League. I can only assume the OHSAA was advised of and looked at the situation with the players coming from Baum's old team (and I admit, it looked suspicious). To my knowledge, Hoover got in no trouble from that. I'm aware of only one local school caught recruiting in the last few years and that was Massillon.
You admit it looked suspicious. You think! I don't think it was looked at by OSHAA. I think Massillon is held to higher scrutiny than other schools. If you look at all the transfers in the Fed, you would have to think something is fishy. For being league brothers, you sure screw each other, and don't bat an eye. Go through the rosters of the Federal league teams and count the transfers. Massillon wouldn't finish in the top five. People in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.
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Old 09-20-17, 07:55 AM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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You admit it looked suspicious. You think! I don't think it was looked at by OSHAA. I think Massillon is held to higher scrutiny than other schools. If you look at all the transfers in the Fed, you would have to think something is fishy. For being league brothers, you sure screw each other, and don't bat an eye. Go through the rosters of the Federal league teams and count the transfers. Massillon wouldn't finish in the top five. People in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.
That's absolutely not true. You need help.
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Old 09-20-17, 07:59 AM
jtigerjoe jtigerjoe is offline
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That's absolutely not true. You need help.
I don't want to have to sit you down and point out the facts. You wouldn't believe it anyway. You guys are high and mighty, and think you are on top of the world. If I needed help, I surely wouldn't come to and idiot like youl
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Old 09-20-17, 08:03 AM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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I don't want to have to sit you down and point out the facts. You wouldn't believe it anyway. You guys are high and mighty, and think you are on top of the world. If I needed help, I surely wouldn't come to and idiot like youl
If I were you, I would avoid the facts too because you don't have them. You hate the Federal League, we get it.
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Old 09-20-17, 08:13 AM
jtigerjoe jtigerjoe is offline
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If I were you, I would avoid the facts too because you don't have them. You hate the Federal League, we get it.
Don't hate the Federal league. Wish we played Hoover, Jackson, and Perry every year. Good games, great crowds. great competition. Just won't bow down to your nonsense. You act as if you guys never get transfers. Not so. Never recruit, not so. These wrestlers showing up at Perry are all by accident? We hire a superintendent who was recommended by the state, who has a great quarterback for a son. We recruit. Perry hires a coach with a state championship winning son. Totally legit. See where I am coming from? There is one fact for you.
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Old 09-20-17, 11:04 AM
starkfan36 starkfan36 is offline
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y2h,

I have it on pretty good authority that the district is in fact experiencing financial difficulties.

The upcoming levy is not only to build new schools. It also includes an operational levy that would presumably be used to pay the teachers in the district who have not had raises in 12 years. Already North Canton has had to R.I.F. (Reduction in Force) teachers over the past couple years.

And my understanding is that if the levy doesn't pass, as many as 15 teachers in the district would lose their jobs with the cuts that would need to be made prior to next school year.

So back to my point from earlier. How do you even begin to talk about hiring a new head coach if there are no teaching positions to be had in the district? And how do you allow a new head coach to bring in his own staff if there are no positions to give?

I apologize for getting the thread somewhat back on topic. I realize many of you want to continue the whole Massillon vs. Fed debate. Have at it!
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  #29  
Old 09-20-17, 11:48 AM
Flood Flood is offline
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Sadly, in today's athletics, most critics don't care about what type of people the coach is developing anymore. It's wins and losses, period. Reflection of our eroding society.
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Old 09-20-17, 04:38 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Sadly, in today's athletics, most critics don't care about what type of people the coach is developing anymore. It's wins and losses, period. Reflection of our eroding society.
That's very true. But is it a given that that is what is going on? Kids at NC were leapfrogged by transfers, and presumably the staff that had worked there was replaced. I don't know the specifics, maybe they retired.

I do think the development of players into conscientious people is far more important, but there should also be the ability to see one's hard work bare fruit and a fair process for getting the chance to do so.

Also, for better or worse, in our society athletics allows kids who are either financially or intellectually unable to reach above where they might otherwise land in post-secondary education and all that goes with it. So there are ways the nicest guy in the world at 0-10 can be a detriment, not a positive.
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