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  #91  
Old 03-16-14, 10:26 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is online now
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SWMC, yes I know guys like that too. But I think our lines of work are very different. I work in mfg, yours sounds more like Office Space, lol.

I went through a stretch like that too in my younger days. Then I got married and had kids and the wife said to knock it off - she expected me home. Best advice I ever got. I am sure a strong family values man such as yourself can appreciate that. Experience has taught me the "workaholic lifestyle" is not a great way to go through life. I work smarter, efficient, I go home, and the work is there in the morning. Of course I do some evening emails and the occasional call but I don't call that work per say. Scheduled overtime, and mandatory 12 hour shifts (or 2 jobs) are a whole different ballgame. I don't kid myself. I am blessed.
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  #92  
Old 03-16-14, 10:51 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
SWMC, yes I know guys like that too. But I think our lines of work are very different. I work in mfg, yours sounds more like Office Space, lol.

I went through a stretch like that too in my younger days. Then I got married and had kids and the wife said to knock it off - she expected me home. Best advice I ever got. I am sure a strong family values man such as yourself can appreciate that. Experience has taught me the "workaholic lifestyle" is not a great way to go through life. I work smarter, efficient, I go home, and the work is there in the morning. Of course I do some evening emails and the occasional call but I don't call that work per say. Scheduled overtime, and mandatory 12 hour shifts (or 2 jobs) are a whole different ballgame. I don't kid myself. I am blessed.
I would agree with that, I work in technology, companies that are traditionally heavy in engineering and development (@70% of the workforce) about 10% in sales, 5% in the corporate office (CxO, Marketing, etc.) and about 10% in production, with the rest being office support and maintenance. There is usually no scheduled overtime, but product/project deadlines have the engineering staff working 16 hour days for a couple of weeks 2-3 times a year. No one insists or schedules time, but people take pride in their work and their schedules. I don't watch the clock, nor do most of the people I work with, I go in around 7am, head home by 5 or 6 most days. When the kids were younger, I never missed a game, concert, or event and would show up to watch practice or coach a team. Even today I will sometimes head out for a game of golf, or a long lunch, or spend a few moments on Yappi.
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  #93  
Old 03-17-14, 04:37 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
SWMC, yes I know guys like that too. But I think our lines of work are very different. I work in mfg, yours sounds more like Office Space, lol.
You do realize that Cinci probably IS "Bill Lumbergh" in his office, right ?
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  #94  
Old 03-17-14, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
I tend to work with the 'C' suite and sales and operations. I get emails from our CEO on weekends, late at night, and sometimes at 4am. I've gotten calls from customer executives at night and on weekends to discuss deployment issues or requirements. Our COO has called at midnight to confirm a production change or my availability for a customer meeting if critical to something that they are working on. If I pop a message to our Product Manager, I generally get a response in a few minutes unless he is sleeping and if he is, I'll have a response shortly after he gets up. On any given week, I'll get several emails from the executive team outside of business hours. Our non-managing engineers typically fit into the 40 hour week.

Our CEO has a beach house and when he and his wife are there, I still get emails, updates, and requests maybe on a more infrequent schedule, but he is thinking about work throughout the day.

It's been that way throughout my career, I remember my 1st boss, he was our CFO, and even with me coming in nights and weekends for software updates and testing on a fairly regular basis - he was almost always there. Nights, Saturdays, and Sunday afternoons. Not all the time, but more times than I remember him not being there. I learned a lot in those early years having lunch with him and our CEO on many Saturdays with none of the formality of the work week to interfere with my questions.
What a freakin' blow hard.

Why are you so needy to post like this? That is what you need to be working on.

All but clock punchers work the same way so get over yourself.

Good grief.

I made my biggest deal from a beach with a cell phone while my 5 year old romped around. Is it virturious that I worked from the beach? or that I devote 2-4 hours a day to business while on vacation? (damned nice vacations) Or that I regularly take calls or produce reports on weekends that I had previous plans for?

NO

What is infinitely more difficult is catching a grimy bus at 7am on a Sunday morning when it's humid and hot or snowing or raining to get to a minimum wage job at WalMart or McDonald. These are the people I admire not some shallow guy that got lucky after using a socialized job training program yet thinks his hard work raised him because of a needy personality.
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  #95  
Old 03-17-14, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post

Experience has taught me the "workaholic lifestyle" is not a great way to go through life.

Of course I do some evening emails and the occasional call but I don't call that work per say. Scheduled overtime, and mandatory 12 hour shifts (or 2 jobs) are a whole different ballgame. I don't kid myself. I am blessed.
Exactly.

Great post.
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  #96  
Old 03-17-14, 09:47 AM
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Clue to all:

The hardest working people in this country are the poor who are called lazy and the laziest folks are the one's who tell you they "earned it."
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  #97  
Old 03-17-14, 09:52 AM
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Apparently NOR is under the impression that he's finally found a clue lying around.
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  #98  
Old 03-17-14, 10:41 AM
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NOR must not know many people, the only people over 18 that I know of that are making minimum wage made a bunch of career and educational mistakes that limit their opportunities. I don't have a lot of sympathy for self-made minimum wage careerists.
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  #99  
Old 03-17-14, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by noonereal View Post
Clue to all:

The hardest working people in this country are the people that took advantage of the opportunities that are still available in this country, worked hard and earned their rewards and the laziest folks are the ones that coast through life expecting someone else to create success for them and demand a cut from everyone else because they are failures.
FYP
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  #100  
Old 03-17-14, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
FYP
What you don't "get" is that most people do not have opportunities. Opportunities are also limited by background which simply means the odds are much longer for some than others.

It's chance for most no matter how "hard" they work. That is why when I see posts like yours, where things "fell" in place yet you take the credit as if you are better than the same guy who did the same things as you but was not so "lucky" I become... intrigued and speak up.
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  #101  
Old 03-17-14, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
NOR must not know many people, the only people over 18 that I know of that are making minimum wage made a bunch of career and educational mistakes that limit their opportunities. I don't have a lot of sympathy for self-made minimum wage careerists.
and this is why you are a republican. It is the party of the egocentric greedy.

It's a character flaw dude, not something that others admire. At least not educated people.
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  #102  
Old 03-17-14, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by noonereal View Post
What you don't "get" is that most people do not have opportunities. Opportunities are also limited by background which simply means the odds are much longer for some than others.

It's chance for most no matter how "hard" they work. That is why when I see posts like yours, where things "fell" in place yet you take the credit as if you are better than the same guy who did the same things as you but was not so "lucky" I become... intrigued and speak up.
Opportunities occur for everyone. If someone doesn't complete their free HS education, that's their self-inflicted wound. If a poor kid takes their Pell Grant and doesn't work hard in college to take advantage of someone else's forced charity, that's another self-inflicted wound. If you can't show up for work on-time and ready to go because you are too drunk or hungover or drug addled, that's another self-inflicted wound. If you think that just because you hang around flipping burgers for 25 years you should make more than the HS kid that wants to replace you, that's another self-inflicted wound.

Some people have to work harder, but it's not impossible and almost every failure I've ever met can be summed up by finding out what their self-inflicted limitation was. It's not the man, it's not an employer, it's not their parents, it's themselves.
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  #103  
Old 03-17-14, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by noonereal View Post
Bullship

It's a slave/slave owner relationship.
really? slaves got wages and benefits? and got to choose which slave owner they would work for and which jobs they would perform?

so what was all the fuss about?
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  #104  
Old 03-17-14, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
Opportunities occur for everyone.
OMG, you really believe this.


Quote:
If someone doesn't complete their free HS education, that's their self-inflicted wound.
This is wrong on so many levels.

First off. it's not free. Second, the educational system in this country is terrible. It is valueless to great number of kids who just don't learn as taught in our school. 3) many kids have pressures and personalities that make high school a whole different animals than it is to others.

I could go on and on but this is off subject to begin with.


Quote:
If a poor kid takes their Pell Grant and doesn't work hard in college to take advantage of someone else's forced charity, that's another self-inflicted wound.
Pell grants don't pay much at all. Anyone trying to go to school on a Pell grant has a very hard row to hoe. Forced charity? What a low life you are.


Quote:
If you can't show up for work on-time and ready to go because you are too drunk or hungover or drug addled, that's another self-inflicted wound.
You are suggesting that people are successfully do not engage in these behaviors. Again, this is just an uneducated lowlife view.


Quote:
If you think that just because you hang around flipping burgers for 25 years you should make more than the HS kid that wants to replace you, that's another self-inflicted wound.
So now you have decided that everyone must have your aspirations or they should be poor. Did I say lowlife yet?

Quote:
Some people have to work harder, but it's not impossible and almost every failure I've ever met can be summed up by finding out what their self-inflicted limitation was. It's not the man, it's not an employer, it's not their parents, it's themselves.
You have no future in behavioral psychology.

Now let's suppose that instead of pushing pens and keys understanding human responses to conditions were the only opportunities you had. You would be a dirt poor lazy bum as you simply would not be able to do it no matter how "hard" you worked.
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  #105  
Old 03-17-14, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by noonereal View Post
He got his start with a work program, the military, now he wants others to work at WalMart for life. This is so typical.

Does not want others to have the social help he had.
virtually anyone can join the military so id say anyone has the access and opportunity he did. you get what you put in...if your skill and knowledge level say Walmart is the best you can do then just be happy you have a job.
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  #106  
Old 03-17-14, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
virtually anyone can join the military so id say anyone has the access and opportunity he did. you get what you put in...if your skill and knowledge level say Walmart is the best you can do then just be happy you have a job.
Didn't you know that the military is an exclusive club that only the non-working investor class has access to?
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  #107  
Old 03-17-14, 12:21 PM
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I've read through here, and myself, SWM, and I believe MU have given real life examples of salary and overtime cases. The pro Obie guys have only presented generalizations and non factual ideas.
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  #108  
Old 03-17-14, 03:10 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is online now
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Didn't you know that the military is an exclusive club that only the non-working investor class has access to?
I remember during field, survival and POW training that it was just like rushing the most exclusive fraternity on campus. The pay was more than anyone could spend, the hours were built around leisure time, and compared to turning on a grill or fryer was some of the least danger potential on the planet. I remember a briefing on a nuclear bomb that I was going to be flying with that someone stocking a Talking Bass must wonder what would happen if that went off while they were stocking shelves.....

And heck, after getting out, the pay dump of accumulated overtime was embarrassing.......
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  #109  
Old 03-17-14, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by noonereal View Post
Awesome!

About time the middle and lower middle class had an advocate in Washington!
ND:

Yes, he is such an advocate instead of creating a climate of good jobs for the working and middle class, they have been pushed to welfare under his policies, yes, a great advocate for increased welfare, what a joke.
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  #110  
Old 03-17-14, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Slide-by View Post
I've read through here, and myself, SWM, and I believe MU have given real life examples of salary and overtime cases. The pro Obie guys have only presented generalizations and non factual ideas.
Sounds like something Hannity would say after listening to Rushbo.
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  #111  
Old 03-17-14, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by noonereal View Post
OMG, you really believe this.




This is wrong on so many levels.

First off. it's not free. Second, the educational system in this country is terrible. It is valueless to great number of kids who just don't learn as taught in our school. 3) many kids have pressures and personalities that make high school a whole different animals than it is to others.

I could go on and on but this is off subject to begin with.




Pell grants don't pay much at all. Anyone trying to go to school on a Pell grant has a very hard row to hoe. Forced charity? What a low life you are.




You are suggesting that people are successfully do not engage in these behaviors. Again, this is just an uneducated lowlife view.




So now you have decided that everyone must have your aspirations or they should be poor. Did I say lowlife yet?



You have no future in behavioral psychology.

Now let's suppose that instead of pushing pens and keys understanding human responses to conditions were the only opportunities you had. You would be a dirt poor lazy bum as you simply would not be able to do it no matter how "hard" you worked.

ND:

Yes, life is what you make of it- NDXUFan's Mom. I would be very happy to compare my mom's life growing up compared to your life. My mom's mom was a cook at Big Boy and her stepfather was a worker in a tobacco warehouse in Maysville, Kentucky, they were dirt poor. My mom was the parent to her sister and brother at the age of 10, because her parents were working a bazillion hours per work. Many times, my mom's family did not have enough food in the house. When my mom was a teenager, she worked at the Russell Theatre in Maysville, Kentucky, even with a 103 degree fever, her stepfather abused her for years. He told her when she was too sick too work, "Get to work,you $%%$#%%$!!!! If my mom's grandfather would have seen how he treated her, he would have knocked him into the next county, he was 6'8" 300 pounds and served in the Marine Corps in WWI. Even by police standards, my mom's childhood was hell on earth. If my mom read your posts, she would say it is filled with excuses and it is a "cop out." In my mom's first seven years she was lucky to live with her grandfather and grandmother on a Kentucky farm, and they worked from sun up to sun down......

You made a comment about investors. My friend is an investor and he works six days per week, 52 weeks per year, he works like crazy. My friend's mother was like the Gunny in Full Metal Jacket, she was on his case, 24/7. One of the crazier things she told him is that "You cannot join the Boy Scouts because you are a Catholic." In addition, she told him that he could not go out for the school sports team, because he would not be the star of the team and she would be embarrassed. When he was getting beaten up by a group of kids at an elite private school, she told him, "We are paying a lot of money for you to go to school there and you would get beaten up anywhere you went to school."

The education system is terrible? Which group has been running the school system and for how long???? How much have we paid in property taxes for lousy schools and incompetent administrators? I guess results do not matter, but excuses do. How long do you think these excuses and cop-outs would last in the private sector or in the real world?

Pell Grants? Again, look at the people who are raising tuition, even faster than the cost of health care, your pals.

This is what happens when you have people making decisions who are not accountable.
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  #112  
Old 03-17-14, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by creek44 View Post
Sounds like something Hannity would say after listening to Rushbo.
Yes, real world cases, not cases from your fantasy land.
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  #113  
Old 03-17-14, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by noonereal View Post
Get over yourself, this is a really stupid post. The hardest working people I ever saw worked 16 hour days, 6 days a week in the weather, exempt from the minimum wage or virtually any other government protection. It was not some flat slob selling shoes like you who put in 15 extra minutes to suck up to the man.


No employer deserves so much as one extra minute of unpaid time. Let the non working investor who was the recipient of your unpaid effers do an honest days work. You people are so brainwashed. What good sheep.
ND:

Yes, I have worked 16 hours, 6 days per week. Who are you to decide what people deserve or to decide what people want to do with their time? By the way, I do not have any money invested in the market.
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  #114  
Old 03-17-14, 08:20 PM
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The conservatives on this forum are sheeple to the rich -- how dare force an employer to actually pay his people for their work!

The liberals on this forum know that the President isn't worried about the 6-figure salary workers or their employers. He's instead just sticking up for the poor guy whose "manager" title is a sad joke for "free labor".
ND:

Is Obama standing up for the poor and working class with increased health care premiums and higher tax rates for the poor and working class, just curious? Does your pal Obama pay overtime for people who work in the White House? Oh, that is right, only eight percent of Obama's friends have ever had a job in the real world.
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  #115  
Old 03-17-14, 08:30 PM
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That's exactly right, and it's exactly what happens when us middle class and poor folks pay higher tax rates for our wages, than the rich do with their "carried interest" rates on investments. Rich guys don't bother with "wages". Rich guys don't bother sending their sons and daughters off to war either.

One huge cash flow and blood trail from the poor to the rich.
ND:

Please explain to me why the assistant manager at the local fast food chain is paying taxes to support rich retirees on Social Security, again?

Yes, your good buddy, Warren Buffet pays very little in income taxes? If he believes he should pay more, he could just write a check to his friend Obama.

More liberal hypocrisy:

In addition, for a man whose career is a lesson in business and personal tax minimization, he is the last person who should be preaching about “fairness” when it comes to taxation. Mr. Buffett, at his death, will most likely, relative to his wealth, be the lightest-taxed American in the history of the republic. The vast majority of his wealth is in the form of unrealized gains in his shares in Berkshire Hathaway Inc., shares that upon his death will be donated almost entirely to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. (He also has donated to foundations run by relatives.) Mr. Buffett is the second-richest man in America, with a net worth estimated by Forbes at $46 billion, and this amount will escape virtually all federal taxation. Moreover, this is also the case for each of the 10 richest Americans — Mr. Gates (Microsoft Corp.), Larry Ellison (Oracle Corp.), Michael Bloomberg (Bloomberg LLP), the Koch brothers (Koch Industries Inc.), and Sam Walton's heirs (Wal-Mart Stores Inc.).

Relative to wealth, my “rich” urologist pays huge taxes, while these folks above pay virtually nothing. Is this “fair”? Moreover, Mr. Buffett's proposal would have virtually zero financial impact on him (and his fellow billionaires), which leads to justifiable charges of hypocrisy. I'm actually surprised that he has gotten away with this so far.

I have a proposal that would be far more “fair” than Mr. Buffett's proposal, and also would happen to affect him personally. I call it the “Buffett/Sanborn rule.” Anyone with an estate over $1 billion pays a federal estate tax of 50 percent before any deductions. Problem of vast untaxed wealth solved.

Mr. Buffett recently signed a letter, along with Mr. Gates and others, calling for a “strong estate tax” because it is “right morally and economically” and “promotes democracy by slowing the concentration of wealth and power.” They note the money is also urgently needed by the federal government. Is it not the height of arrogance for Mr. Buffett to be preaching this when he is doing completely the opposite?

So, Warren, this is now absurdly Orwellian. It's time to embrace the “Buffett/Shttp://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20121227/OPINION/121229960/buffett-is-a-dope-or-hypocrite-or-both#anborn” rule or you are just a complete phony.
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  #116  
Old 03-17-14, 08:35 PM
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"I have never paid my fair share and I am an Obama voter". SUCKERS!!!!!
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  #117  
Old 03-17-14, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by NDXUFan View Post
ND:

Pell grants? Again, look at the people who are raising tuition, even faster than the cost of health care, your pals.

This is what happens when you have people making decisions who are not accountable.
ND: I hate to pop your bubble (well maybe that's a fib) but the primary reason public college tuition is increasing so fast is because most states have decided to cut their funding. Add the fact that federal research money is being cut (roughly by 1/3 so far). University costs are a MUCH different world than your mother or you faced, if you graduated more than a decade ago.

The costs don't go away though, so the schools must raise the price that students pay.

Guess who gets squeezed. It ain't the kids from middle or upper class families.

The poor just keep getting poorer because they're all dumb and lazy?

How convenient.
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  #118  
Old 03-17-14, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by creek44 View Post
Sounds like something Hannity would say after listening to Rushbo.
ND:

No, he just does not live in your liberal fantasy world.
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  #119  
Old 03-17-14, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by NDXUFan View Post
ND:

No, he just does not live in your liberal fantasy world.
You already replied to this one. No seconds!
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  #120  
Old 03-17-14, 08:50 PM
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ND: I hate to pop your bubble (well maybe that's a fib) but the primary reason public college tuition is increasing so fast is because most states have decided to cut their funding. Add the fact that federal research money is being cut (roughly by 1/3 so far). University costs are a MUCH different world than your mother or you faced, if you graduated more than a decade ago.

The costs don't go away though, so the schools must raise the price that students pay.

Guess who gets squeezed. It ain't the kids from middle or upper class families.

The poor just keep getting poorer because they're all dumb and lazy?

How convenient.
ND:

Costs do not go away, I wonder who has posted that on these boards before, yours truly.

Sowell:

The average tuition at American colleges and universities rose every year throughout the decade of the 1980′s, at a rate much higher than the general rate of inflation in the economy. Private colleges led the way, charging not only the highest tuitions but also taking a growing percentage of family income. In academic year 1976-77, the average tuition at private four-year colleges was less than 17 percent of median family income but, by academic year 1987-88, their tuition was more than 22 percent of median family income. By academic year 1990-91, there were 255 private colleges where tuition alone was $10,000 per year or more. By no means were these all distinguished institutions.


Those who want the government to provide subsidies to help meet the high cost of college seem not to consider whether government subsidies might have contributed to the high cost of college in the first place.

In any kind of economic transaction, it seldom makes sense to charge prices so high that very few people can afford to pay them. But, with the government ready to step in and help whenever tuition is "unaffordable," why not charge more than the traffic will bear and bring in Uncle Sam to make up the difference?

The president of a small college once told me that, if he charged tuition that was affordable, even an institution the size of his would lose millions of dollars of government money every year.

In a normal market situation, each competing enterprise has an incentive to lower prices if that would attract business away from competitors and increase its profits.

Unfortunately, the academic world is not a normal market situation.

Some of the ways of cutting costs that a business might use are not available to a college or university because of restrictions by the accrediting agencies and the American Association of University Professors.

There was a time, back in the early 1960s, when my academic career began, when many -- if not most -- colleges had their faculty teaching 12 semester hours and a few had teaching loads of 15 semester hours.

Spending even 15 hours a week in a classroom may not seem like a lot to people who spend 35 or 40 hours a week on the job. However, there is also the time required to prepare lectures, grade tests and do other miscellaneous campus chores.

Even so, 12 hours a week in a classroom is not a killing pace, especially for professors who have taught a few years and have their lecture notes from previous years to help prepare for the current year's classes.

But that was then and this is now. Today, a teaching load of more than 6 semester hours is considered sweatshop labor on many campuses.

Incidentally, since academic class hours are 50 minutes long, 6 semester hours mean actually 5 hours a week in the classroom.

Why was it considered necessary to cut the teaching load in half? Mainly because professors were expected to do more research.

Why was more research considered necessary? Because research brings in more money from the government, from foundations and from other sources.

On many campuses, a beginning faculty member cannot expect to be promoted to a tenure position unless he or she brings research money into the campus coffers.

Once 6 semester hours of teaching becomes the norm, an individual college that tried to economize by having its faculty teach 9 or 12 semester hours could run into trouble with the American Association of University Professors and the accrediting agencies.

The University of Colorado law school had its accreditation by the American Bar Association put in jeopardy simply because they did not spend enough money on books for their law library -- even though their students passed the bar exam on the first try at a higher rate than the law students at Harvard and Yale.

The criteria used by most accrediting agencies are based on inputs -- essentially spending -- rather than results for students.

Competition among academic institutions therefore seldom takes the form of lowering their costs of operation, in order to lower tuition. The incentives are all the other way.

Competition often takes the form of offering more upscale amenities -- posh lounges, bowling alleys, wi-fi, finer dorms.

None of this means better education. But, so long as the customers keep buying it -- with government help -- the colleges will keep selling it.


ND:

As I said before, your guys, not mine.
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