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  #301  
Old 04-01-12, 08:06 PM
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It's about time to go Old Yeller on Sizemore. If you are rebuilding, which this team is, do it right.
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  #302  
Old 04-01-12, 10:07 PM
finishline654 finishline654 is offline
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http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...n-with-indians

Asdrubal Cabrera reportedly signs 2-year extension worth $16.5 million. This keeps Cabrera under contract through 2014. He's making about $4.5 million this year.
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  #303  
Old 04-02-12, 01:20 AM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2012/st...lorado-rockies
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  #304  
Old 04-02-12, 05:39 AM
RidgeRams2008 RidgeRams2008 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finishline654 View Post
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...n-with-indians

Asdrubal Cabrera reportedly signs 2-year extension worth $16.5 million. This keeps Cabrera under contract through 2014. He's making about $4.5 million this year.
Holy . Is that spending money on good players?
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  #305  
Old 04-02-12, 07:50 AM
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The surprising part is that if Ubaldo's actions were intentional (which I think we all know they were), that he hit his intended target.
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  #306  
Old 04-02-12, 11:17 AM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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LOLz @ Jim Tracy and the Rockies management calling anyone else gutless. These are the same clowns that had a pitcher make a start and pitch one inning knowing he was essentially traded.
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  #307  
Old 04-02-12, 01:06 PM
Clyde Frog Clyde Frog is offline
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I did laugh when Tracy said that Jimenez hitting Tulo was the most gutless thing he'd seen in 35 years of baseball. Really? Hitting a guy on the arm in Spring training is the most gutless thing you've seen?
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  #308  
Old 04-02-12, 01:24 PM
Jhubbs77 Jhubbs77 is offline
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Yeah he sounds like a baby
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  #309  
Old 04-02-12, 01:45 PM
Clyde Frog Clyde Frog is offline
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It's sounding like Roberto Hernandez Heredia will be getting some type of suspension from Major League Baseball once he arrives back in the U.S. Could be up to six weeks.
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  #310  
Old 04-02-12, 09:02 PM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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The Reds break the bank to keep Votto a Red forever. Meanwhile, up in Cleveland....
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  #311  
Old 04-02-12, 09:21 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Originally Posted by cjb56 View Post
The Reds break the bank to keep Votto a Red forever. Meanwhile, up in Cleveland....
An NL first baseman is going to be making $22.5 million at 38 years old? Sorry, mid-size markets like Cleveland need to make wiser decisions than that. I know that's not the popular way to look at things and I know it's much easier to simply say that the Tribe should just throw more money around like the big markets, but that's not how the organization is going to build a winner. I like what they did with A-Cab and we need more of that.
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  #312  
Old 04-02-12, 09:29 PM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
An NL first baseman is going to be making $22.5 million at 38 years old? Sorry, mid-size markets like Cleveland need to make wiser decisions than that. I know that's not the popular way to look at things and I know it's much easier to simply say that the Tribe should just throw more money around like the big markets, but that's not how the organization is going to build a winner. I like what they did with A-Cab and we need more of that.
So you think the Reds should have just let Votto walk?
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  #313  
Old 04-02-12, 09:59 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sig Hansen View Post
So you think the Reds should have just let Votto walk?
I guess, it's hard to say since I'm not a Reds' fan. But as a Tribe fan, if they threw that kind of contract at a first baseman that age (even with those numbers), I wouldn't be terribly excited. I just think that there are better ways for mid-market teams to spend $22.5 million a year, better values to be had spread over several positions...assuming you have a GM who knows what he's doing (which is debatable for the Tribe at this point).
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  #314  
Old 04-03-12, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
I guess, it's hard to say since I'm not a Reds' fan. But as a Tribe fan, if they threw that kind of contract at a first baseman that age (even with those numbers), I wouldn't be terribly excited. I just think that there are better ways for mid-market teams to spend $22.5 million a year, better values to be had spread over several positions...assuming you have a GM who knows what he's doing (which is debatable for the Tribe at this point).
Like Casey Kotchman, Derek Lowe and Grady Strikemore?
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  #315  
Old 04-03-12, 09:48 AM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
I guess, it's hard to say since I'm not a Reds' fan. But as a Tribe fan, if they threw that kind of contract at a first baseman that age (even with those numbers), I wouldn't be terribly excited. I just think that there are better ways for mid-market teams to spend $22.5 million a year, better values to be had spread over several positions...assuming you have a GM who knows what he's doing (which is debatable for the Tribe at this point).
MVPs don't come around too often.
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  #316  
Old 04-03-12, 10:14 AM
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Bennies is mad because the Reds get to keep one of the best players in baseball
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  #317  
Old 04-03-12, 02:44 PM
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seriuosly ---Uboldo Jiminez gets 5 games for throwing at tUlo's ribs????!!! what a joke ...only time a pitcher should get suspended is if he throws above the shoulders at someone or does something stupid like roger clemmens did when he roid raged and threw the broken bat back at Mike Pizza and said he though it was the ball
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  #318  
Old 04-04-12, 11:53 AM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Quote:
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Bennies is mad because the Reds get to keep one of the best players in baseball
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sig Hansen View Post
MVPs don't come around too often.
I don't know that he'll have many more seasons like 2010, but if he does, I think they'll be in the first half of this extension (i.e. before age 33).

Look, I understand why the Reds felt they had to do this and I understand why the fans are excited. But like Fielder's contract in Detroit, the back half of that deal is absolute albatross for what you can expect him to be producing. Detroit has been spending like drunken sailors over the past few years, so they can sort of weather that impending storm, but the 2018 Cincinnati Reds are going to really have their hands tied paying an aging first baseman with maybe an .850 OPS something like 20% of their entire payroll.

All I'm saying is that while I wish the Tribe would spend more, I don't want them to make moves like that. I want them to spend money on starting pitching and guys that can produce at the premier positions (C/SS/2B/CF).
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  #319  
Old 04-04-12, 12:06 PM
MickeyMantle MickeyMantle is offline
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A couple things here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
but the 2018 Cincinnati Reds are going to really have their hands tied paying an aging first baseman with maybe an .850 OPS something like 20% of their entire payroll.
I'm not sure it's wise to estimate the Reds' 2018 payroll at this point for a couple reasons. First, what is normal in 2012 will be likely very low in 2018, so Votto's salary is likely to be less than 20 percent of the team payroll. Second, signing Votto for this kind of money sure makes it seem like the Reds will spend more as the years go by. Castellini wants to win and he is likely aware of the fact he'll need to spend more to surround Votto with players who can win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
I want them to spend money on starting pitching and guys that can produce at the premier positions (C/SS/2B/CF).
Starting pitching is the riskiest position to spend money on, based on the fact that our arms tend to break down as pitchers.

Regarding the premier positions argument, Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, Joey Votto, Miguel Cabrera (really a 1B), Adrian Gonzalez, MArk texiera and Eric Hosmer say first base is a premier position at this point in baseball history. I'd really struggle to take seriously the idea that SS or 2B is a premier position all-around, though I think you're hinting at the "strong up the middle" argument that really only works (and is valid) defensively.
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  #320  
Old 04-04-12, 03:54 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMantle View Post
I'm not sure it's wise to estimate the Reds' 2018 payroll at this point for a couple reasons. First, what is normal in 2012 will be likely very low in 2018, so Votto's salary is likely to be less than 20 percent of the team payroll. Second, signing Votto for this kind of money sure makes it seem like the Reds will spend more as the years go by. Castellini wants to win and he is likely aware of the fact he'll need to spend more to surround Votto with players who can win.
Good points and the first part is something I did think about. In 2006, the Reds payroll was about $61 million. This year (2012), it's about $76 million. Assuming* another ~25% increase in the next six years, we're looking at about a $100 million payroll, which means Votto's $21 million salary is about 20%.

*It's very possible that the Reds will increase their payroll moving forward, so I understand why these numbers are hard to predict. However I think we can both agree that they won't be spending as much as franchises like the Yankees or Red Sox who could both more easily absorb such a contract.

Quote:
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Starting pitching is the riskiest position to spend money on, based on the fact that our arms tend to break down as pitchers.
Risky? Sure. But it's also a big impact position and personally where I'd like to see a bulk of an organization's investment going. If the Tribe insisted on throwing that kind of money at someone, I'd be less upset at them doing so for Sabathia or Lee than a first baseman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMantle View Post
Regarding the premier positions argument, Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, Joey Votto, Miguel Cabrera (really a 1B), Adrian Gonzalez, MArk texiera and Eric Hosmer say first base is a premier position at this point in baseball history. I'd really struggle to take seriously the idea that SS or 2B is a premier position all-around, though I think you're hinting at the "strong up the middle" argument that really only works (and is valid) defensively.
I guess that's partially my point. The list of guys like Tulowitski, Reyes, and Avila, is a lot shorter. It's a lot more difficult to find a big offensive producer at catcher/middle infield than at first base or left field, even if the actual numeric production of the former category of players is lower than that of the latter. Offensive talent up the middle is a premium. You can rarely teach a great hitter to play shortstop...you can almost always teach him to play a serviceable first base or left field, which is all that's necessary at those positions.

Additionally, you can always move a catcher or middle infielder further along the defensive spectrum to other positions as they age and their skills deteriorate. There's nowhere to move an NL 1B or AL DH.

I just think it's a questionable investment for any team that will likely have other, bigger needs in five or six years, that's all. In the short-term, it certainly makes sense, but I think you have to look at the whole contract to determine whether it's a good deal for the club. And keeping this related to the Indians, since that's the context under which the discussion began (and we had a similar one about Fielder a few months back): I just don't get upset that they're not going out and signing first basemen to long-term deals.
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  #321  
Old 04-04-12, 10:22 PM
Clyde Frog Clyde Frog is offline
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Going to my first Opening Day tomorrow. Anyone have tips on where to go before the game? I'm getting up there around 11:30am and my friends and I want to hit up a bar or two before the game, but we want to try to find a place that won't be wall-to-wall with people if possible.
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  #322  
Old 04-04-12, 10:27 PM
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Thirsty Parrot right behind the stadium is a good bet. It is likely to be packed tommorow, as it is a frequent pregame place.
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  #323  
Old 04-04-12, 10:44 PM
Clyde Frog Clyde Frog is offline
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My friend mentioned going to a place called Flannery's (sp.)? Know anything about it?
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  #324  
Old 04-05-12, 07:50 AM
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My friend mentioned going to a place called Flannery's (sp.)? Know anything about it?
Never been there but have heard good things.

Got a chuckle out of an article on ESPN. In the "comments" section one of the posters said they should rename the "disabled list" the "Sizemore List."
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  #325  
Old 04-05-12, 04:11 PM
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So you think the Reds should have just let Votto walk?
so you think he's worth 23 million dollars when he's almost 40? he might not even still be in baseball by then (retire) but would still have to pay him 23 mil
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  #326  
Old 04-05-12, 04:12 PM
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Like Casey Kotchman, Derek Lowe and Grady Strikemore?
which one of them got a 10 year 22.5 mil deal?
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  #327  
Old 04-05-12, 04:14 PM
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good start for the Tribe, Masterful preformance by Masterson. try to take the series tomorrow.
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  #328  
Old 04-05-12, 04:48 PM
RidgeRams2008 RidgeRams2008 is offline
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F$%*ing Chris Perez.
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  #329  
Old 04-05-12, 05:03 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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I wish they would have traded him and made Pestano closer.
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  #330  
Old 04-05-12, 08:28 PM
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The Indians were scoreless in 15 of 16 innings today. Fifteen innings of guys taking terrible swings at pitches way out of the strike zone. Cabrera had a chance to win the game with the bases loaded and one out in extra innings and swung at the first pitch, which was about eight inches outside and tried to pull it. Naturally, he rolled over on it and grounded into a double play. This occurred right after the previous batter had walked.

The Tribe had seven hits in 16 innings. The whole team opened the season in a batting slump.
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