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View Poll Results: AL MVP?
Mike Trout - Anaheim 7 22.58%
Miguel Cabrera - Detroit 23 74.19%
Other (Please specify) 1 3.23%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 10-05-12, 12:30 PM
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Who should win the AL MVP?

Mike Trout: .326 AVG., 30 HR, 83 RBI, .399 OBP, 129 runs, 49 SB, 10.7 WAR

Miguel Cabrera: .330 AVG., 44 HR, 139 RBI, .393 OBP, 109 runs, 6.9 WAR, won triple crown

I figure these are the only two candidates. Didn't bother with any others.

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  #2  
Old 10-05-12, 12:31 PM
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LOL I put Anaheim. Old habits. LA Angels, I meant.
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  #3  
Old 10-05-12, 12:39 PM
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I know people think that the triple crown is some sort of big deal, but Trout had a historic season and his team won more games than Cabrera's. I expect this to be a close race, but give me Trout all day. He saves runs defensively and was more valuable offensively.
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  #4  
Old 10-05-12, 01:39 PM
Duke Silver Duke Silver is offline
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Trout
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  #5  
Old 10-05-12, 07:54 PM
Clyde Frog Clyde Frog is offline
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Miggy. He did something that's happened only nine other times in baseball history.
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  #6  
Old 10-05-12, 09:22 PM
coolguy coolguy is offline
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Miggy... i'm sure eventually there will be a flaw with this "WAR" stat that every analyst is drooling over
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  #7  
Old 10-06-12, 08:36 AM
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Cabrera had a great year, but in most years his numbers are not good enough for a triple crown. It's a completely overrated achievement. And for those saying "his team made the playoffs!" the AL Central sucked. The Angels had more wins than Detroit.
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  #8  
Old 10-06-12, 08:56 AM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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Adam Dunn
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  #9  
Old 10-06-12, 10:20 AM
100club 100club is offline
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"Other" shouldn't be a choice its Cabrera or Trout... I went with Miggy, the Triple Crown is such an impressive feat it's tough to vote for anyone else (although Trout's season was pretty damn good also).
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  #10  
Old 10-06-12, 10:25 AM
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A player winning the triple crown depends a lot on how the whole league is performing. Trout was more valuable to his team. It's called "Most Valuable Player" not "Most Outstanding Player." Trout's WAR was top 20 in MLB history. He's in the same sentence as Ruth and Gehrig re: his value to his team. That can't be overlooked.
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  #11  
Old 10-06-12, 10:28 AM
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Best WAR single-seasons:

+ = Hall of Famer

1. Babe Ruth + (13.7) 1923
2. Babe Ruth + (12.6) 1921
3. Babe Ruth + (12.1) 1927
4a. Roger Hornsby + (12.0) 1924
4b. Carl Yastrzemski + (12.0) 1967
6a. Barry Bonds (11.6) 2001
6b. Barry Bonds (11.6) 2002
6c. Babe Ruth + (11.6) 1920
9. Lou Gehrig + (11.5) 1927
10. Babe Ruth + (11.4) 1924
11a. Cal Ripken + (11.3) 1991
11b. Honus Wagner + (11.3) 1908
13a. Ty Cobb + (11.1) 1917
13b. Mickey Mantle + (11.1) 1957
13c. Babe Ruth + (11.1) 1926
16. Mickey Mantle + (11.0) 1956
17. Willie Mays + (10.9) 1965
18a. Joe Morgan + (10.8) 1975
18b. Stan Musial + (10.8) 1948
20a. Willie Mays + (10.7) 1964
20b. Mike Trout (10.7) 1946
23a. Ty Cobb + (10.6) 1911
23b. Rogers Hornsby + (10.6) 1921
25a. Barry Bonds (10.4) 2004
25b. Robin Yount + (10.4) 1982
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  #12  
Old 10-06-12, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recently View Post
Cabrera had a great year, but in most years his numbers are not good enough for a triple crown. It's a completely overrated achievement. And for those saying "his team made the playoffs!" the AL Central sucked. The Angels had more wins than Detroit.
Wow, so in your expert opinion Cabrera had zilch going to bat and playing third base almost every game all season knowing he had to produce runs and hold down third base. And in August and September his stats meant nothing to you in a pennant race?

Miggy all the way. Triple Crown cinches it!
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  #13  
Old 10-06-12, 12:26 PM
Duke Silver Duke Silver is offline
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Wow, recently is the voice of reason in here..
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  #14  
Old 10-06-12, 02:07 PM
MontetheCarlo MontetheCarlo is offline
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Trout wins the tiebreaker because he's an American.
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  #15  
Old 10-06-12, 02:24 PM
Nelson Van Alden Nelson Van Alden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurri-Comet View Post
Wow, so in your expert opinion Cabrera had zilch going to bat and playing third base almost every game all season knowing he had to produce runs and hold down third base. And in August and September his stats meant nothing to you in a pennant race?

Miggy all the way. Triple Crown cinches it!
+1. I love how Recently's downplaying the Triple Crown, it hasn't happened in over 40 years for a reason.
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  #16  
Old 10-06-12, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recently View Post
A player winning the triple crown depends a lot on how the whole league is performing. Trout was more valuable to his team. It's called "Most Valuable Player" not "Most Outstanding Player." Trout's WAR was top 20 in MLB history. He's in the same sentence as Ruth and Gehrig re: his value to his team. That can't be overlooked.
Agree with your first statement, but hitting .331 with 44 home runs and 139 RBI's is pretty damn good regardless of how the rest of the league is performing... Only Posey had a higher batting average in the NL and no one had a higher homerun total or came close to him in RBI's. Again, what Trout did was simply amazing, but winning the Triple Crown is even more impressive. And your statement about "Most Valuable Player" not "Most Outstanding Player" is absolutely true, but I don't understand how you are using that to defend Trout. The Angels had a loaded team and failed to make the playoffs. The Tigers were trailing the White Sox the entire season and ended up getting hot and making the playoffs, mainly due to Cabrera also getting hot and finishing off the season strong.
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  #17  
Old 10-06-12, 05:07 PM
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The triple crown categories are extremely overrated. Also, Cabrera is a poor base-runner and a defensive liability. Trout was a tremendous defensive player, a terrific base-runner and an all-around better offensive player.

If you give Cabrera MVP, you're basically saying that value to a team means nothing and that you value silly stats like batting average, home runs and RBI. Again, Trout had a historic season. Only very few other players did what he did.
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  #18  
Old 10-07-12, 04:10 PM
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Cabrera had the historic season! Ask Frank Robinson. Or any of the old-timers who really understand statistics that go back in baseball history.

Saber-metrics are NEW Age. Great, Trout gets Rookie of the Year.
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  #19  
Old 10-07-12, 05:16 PM
DennisRodman DennisRodman is offline
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Old 10-07-12, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Hurri-Comet View Post
Cabrera had the historic season! Ask Frank Robinson. Or any of the old-timers who really understand statistics that go back in baseball history.

Saber-metrics are NEW Age. Great, Trout gets Rookie of the Year.
What if Cabrera wins Triple Crown with these numbers:

.302 AVG
29 HRs
107 RBI

Those are good numbers. Not great. But by everyone's logic in here, he wins MVP because he won the Triple Crown. What if Josh Hamilton had hit two more home runs this season? What if Trout hits five points higher? We aren't even having this argument. Mike Trout had a season that ranks up there with Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Barry Bonds and some of the truly great players that have ever played the game.

Miguel Cabrera's numbers have been done many times, but because the AL was a little down this year and he happened to win some sort of mythical achievement, we crown him MVP? Please.

Trout was more valuable to his team. His team won more games because of him than Detroit won because of Cabrera. Trout was clearly more valuable, and if the writers vote for Cabrera, they're essentially saying that they value three meaningless stats over dozens of meaningful stats that Trout was better in.
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  #21  
Old 10-07-12, 05:30 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Guys. It's Miguel Cabrera. Trout had a great year, but this really shouldn't be up for debate.

And that WAR stat is lame
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  #22  
Old 10-07-12, 05:32 PM
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Guys. It's Miguel Cabrera. Trout had a great year, but this really shouldn't be up for debate.

And that WAR stat is lame
WAR is way better at determining value than batting average, home runs or RBI. If home runs and RBI are great stats, then Adam Dunn is an elite player and a hall of fame candidate.

You're right, there should be no debate here. It should unanimously be Trout.
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Old 10-07-12, 05:33 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Recently, what is your point? Cabrera DIDN'T put up those numbers, he posted numbers far better, so I'm not sure what you are arguing there. If he had put up the numbers you posted he wouldn't be the MVP, simple as that
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Old 10-07-12, 05:35 PM
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People believe that Cabrera should be MVP BECAUSE he won Triple Crown, not because he put up crazy numbers. Trout put up better numbers in far more important stats. Why are we suddenly pretending that batting average, home runs and RBI matter more than anything else?
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Old 10-07-12, 05:36 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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I'm also not sure how you can argue that batting average and RBIs are meaningless stats. Driving in the most runs for your team while also batting higher than everyone is meaningless?
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  #26  
Old 10-07-12, 05:39 PM
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Your RBI numbers depend a lot on your teammates in front of you. Joey Votto is a superior hitter but doesn't drive in the runs Cabrera does because he doesn't have protection behind him or consistent hitters in front of him.

Average is overrated. What if you bat .340, but barely get walked, hit for no power and hardly drive in runs? Are you an elite player? Christ, most MLB players admit that average is overrated.

Again, Trout was better in far more categories, and far more important categories. If Cabrera doesn't win the triple crown, even with his numbers, this isn't even a debate. But because the media acts like the triple crown is the rarest achievement in sports, we're supposed to ignore everything else that makes a player valuable?
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Old 10-07-12, 05:40 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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People believe that Cabrera should be MVP BECAUSE he won Triple Crown, not because he put up crazy numbers. Trout put up better numbers in far more important stats. Why are we suddenly pretending that batting average, home runs and RBI matter more than anything else?
What are these far more important categories that Trout put up better numbers in? OPS? No. Are you valuing stolen bases more than every other stat?
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Old 10-07-12, 05:44 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Your RBI numbers depend a lot on your teammates in front of you. Joey Votto is a superior hitter but doesn't drive in the runs Cabrera does because he doesn't have protection behind him or consistent hitters in front of him.

Average is overrated. What if you bat .340, but barely get walked, hit for no power and hardly drive in runs? Are you an elite player? Christ, most MLB players admit that average is overrated.
Right, average by itself can be overrated, but combined with power and driving in runs it is the whole spectrum of hitting. And Cabrera mastered all of it this year
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  #29  
Old 10-07-12, 05:46 PM
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When determining value, WAR is the best stat. Trout's WAR was at a historically high number.

But anyway: Trout had more triples, scored more runs, had a higher OBP, walked more, stole more bases, and played much better defense. That's what nobody is talking about in this: Cabrera is a defensive liability and is basically a DH playing 3B because nobody else on the team could. Trout is going to win a Gold Glove. He saved runs instead of costing his team runs.
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Old 10-07-12, 05:52 PM
Duke Silver Duke Silver is offline
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Recently has ethered everyone.
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