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  #91  
Old 04-18-18, 01:53 PM
dado6 dado6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrycrane View Post
UMM yes the data holds up. I'm not talking inner city schools exclusively , and Cincinnati votes Republican largely.
Cincinnati (the city definitely does not vote Republican).

https://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/ohio

Hillary won Hamilton County (where Cincinnati is) by 10%, and it would have been by more if not for the heavily Repub suburbs pulling for Trump.

The Cincinnati City Council is 7 Dems, 2 Repubs, 1 Independent. Hamilton county commission is 2 Dems to 1 Repub.
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  #92  
Old 04-18-18, 01:56 PM
Buck_98 Buck_98 is offline
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Originally Posted by dado6 View Post
Cincinnati (the city definitely does not vote Republican).

https://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/ohio

Hillary won Hamilton County (where Cincinnati is) by 10%, and it would have been by more if not for the heavily Repub suburbs pulling for Trump.

The Cincinnati City Council is 7 Dems, 2 Repubs, 1 Independent. Hamilton county commission is 2 Dems to 1 Repub.
Please delete this post it has too many facts in it.
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  #93  
Old 04-18-18, 01:58 PM
dado6 dado6 is offline
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Originally Posted by Buck_98 View Post
Please delete this post it has too many facts in it.
Sorry, I'm one of those white, college educated folks who majored in a technical field (engineering). I deal with facts and cause-and-effect........something lost on many people, I fear.
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  #94  
Old 04-18-18, 02:02 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
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Originally Posted by dado6 View Post
Sorry, I'm one of those white, college educated folks who majored in a technical field (engineering). I deal with facts and cause-and-effect........something lost on many people, I fear.
You must be a Democrat.... everyone knows that college educated people are Democrats.
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  #95  
Old 04-18-18, 08:56 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Hannity is getting into Alex Jones conspiracy TV territory. Yappi posters buy into it and post it. Sandyhook, Pizzagate, Seth Rich, 9-11.
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  #96  
Old 04-19-18, 07:28 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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Originally Posted by dado6 View Post
Sorry, I'm one of those white, college educated folks who majored in a technical field (engineering). I deal with facts and cause-and-effect.........
Racist
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  #97  
Old 04-19-18, 08:24 AM
19AL63 19AL63 is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Racist
Now that is funny !!!!!!! and brought a smile to this old man's face.
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  #98  
Old 04-19-18, 08:28 AM
jmog jmog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrycrane View Post
I get the numbers in reference to the national numbers and when I say FOX is highest rated I mean among CABLE news networks .

I think the reason the Polls said Clinton was going to win and then didn't wasn't because the polls are bad [ they are usually fairly accurate } or were trying to mislead, but rather that people sometimes don't tell the truth when answering questions.

Many people I figure didn't want to admit they were voting for Trump as has been speculated . Most out here say they aren't big fans or big 'Trump guys" . Not big fans they say .


Some will say he has kept some promises and the tax cuts are great or like the far right Gorsuch pick for the court , but won't say they are BIG Trump supporters .

Fox news? No one out here says they watch on a regular basis , not one person? OK may be no one watches at all . My bad , I figured based on some of the rhetoric some were watchers but if you guys say you don't watch , you don't watch I guess.


In summation

Some say they weren't voting for Trump but did it appears. No one likes, watches or barely know who Hannity is . No one is a Real big Trump supporter and of course Fox is akin to My Space , something that some used to use but no one does anymore.


Got It , anyway stat majors have set me straight , barely anyone watches those shows on Fox I was wrong to assume some of you did, I apologize fellas.
I apologize that facts fly directly in the face of your "feelings".
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  #99  
Old 04-19-18, 08:50 AM
jmog jmog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrycrane View Post
Check graduation rates ACT , SAT scores , rankings of schools , and after you do that tell me where these schools are . private schools , public , whatever.


Are you telling the better outcomes are I areas that vote Republican and are mostly conservative ?

Not close , large majority of top high schools are in areas that vote Blue, must be the memory and regurgitating advantages , clearly the thinking advantage goes to the South and other Conservative areas
I just checked the first two standardized tests...ACT and SAT...

I went off the blue vs red in the 2016 electoral college map...

For the ACT...
The average blue state scored 22.8 while the average red state scored 20.8.
Supporting your theory...

For the SAT
The average blue state scored 1085, the average red state scored 1150.
Oh wait, not supporting your theory...
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  #100  
Old 04-19-18, 08:54 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrycrane View Post
Many people I figure didn't want to admit they were voting for Trump as has been speculated . Most out here say they aren't big fans or big 'Trump guys" . Not big fans they say .


Some will say he has kept some promises and the tax cuts are great or like the far right Gorsuch pick for the court , but won't say they are BIG Trump supporters .

Fox news? No one out here says they watch on a regular basis , not one person? OK may be no one watches at all . My bad , I figured based on some of the rhetoric some were watchers but if you guys say you don't watch , you don't watch I guess.


In summation

Some say they weren't voting for Trump but did it appears. No one likes, watches or barely know who Hannity is . No one is a Real big Trump supporter and of course Fox is akin to My Space , something that some used to use but no one does anymore.
.
I've never had a problem saying I support Trump and I think he's doing a hell of a job. I voted for Trump because IMO he correctly identified the biggest problems facing this country and his proposed solutions offered the best chance to solve those problems. I would have voted for Trump over any democrat candidate.

At the same time I am fully aware of Trump's failings. His overinflated ego; his remarkably thin skin; his inability to stay on message; his likely shady dealings in the past around his construction business and his boorish, frat boy behavior. But ultimately these things don't amount to a hill of beans in contrast to the strengths he brings to the presidency.

With respect to Fox news, did it ever occur to you Harry that conservatives never got their "rhetoric" from Fox! That maybe we already believed & spoke this way! What Fox did was conduct some marketing research and found out there was a sizable audience of right wing folks who were not being served by the left wing MSM. It seems to me that people don't follow Fox news on the issues, Fox news follows the right wingers on the issues.
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  #101  
Old 04-19-18, 09:48 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19AL63 View Post
Now that is funny !!!!!!! and brought a smile to this old man's face.
Well thank you, but understand that there are plenty of people who would claim your opinions are racist examples of white privilege.
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  #102  
Old 04-19-18, 10:25 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Right,

I don't really watch ANY news. I read. Mostly the major news sites. Not interested in their opinions or the opinions of pundant entertainers. Do my best to separate fact from other. If there's not concrete evidense of facts, I take it as other. Regardless, it doesn't affect my decisions. Life experience affects my decisions.
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  #103  
Old 04-19-18, 10:42 AM
19AL63 19AL63 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Well thank you, but understand that there are plenty of people who would claim your opinions are racist examples of white privilege.
Wonder what they would say if they know I grew up in a town the was white white white. Not one black, not one minority that was not married to a white that I can remember. So what did I do when I went to college? Became close friends with a black student. This was in the early 1960's and he being from Al. taught me much about what it was like to grow up in the south. A real to life education not taught in the classroom.
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  #104  
Old 04-19-18, 10:52 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is online now
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Pretty much easty. I read or hear a newsworthy event. The more consequential the more you check it out. Ie. verify on multiple sources right and left. Though some level of bias is unavoidable per our political leanings, it is not that difficult to determine some level of legitimate.
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  #105  
Old 04-19-18, 06:58 PM
gneiss rocks gneiss rocks is offline
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I watch some Fox, maybe a couple hours a weak, about the same with CNN and CBS.
I have a job where I can often listen to various podcast or news from through out the country from NPR to Hannity. I like to listen to all sides to form my opinions. I also skim through read Zero hedge and Drudge.
I like independent journalist the best and you tube provides a great platform as they are not bought and paid for or beholden to special interest.
As far as my political beliefs I am a left leaning fiscally conservative libertarian.

I would compare today's news and politics to a lane in the bowling ally with the bumpers up on the right and the left, making sure you end up in the same place. Neo liberals and neo conservatives rule the mainstream media and will tell you how to think.
Much of both sides are controlled by the same special interest and when both sides agree watch out.
When you step back and watch they often front run news stories and prep for what is already planed created or revealed. The recent "Russians might soon hack us" and "fake video technology" would be my guess for the next false flag or fake news to come. They about have to be done with the gas attack crap by now...time to move on.

Here is a great discussion of this very topic from a independent who seems very non non partisan in his views... as he openly criticizes both side fairly equally.
What Ed Schultz reveals gives great insight into the control behind today's "journalism".
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  #106  
Old 04-19-18, 07:25 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Public School Ranking by State

Overall Rank
(1 = Best)
State
Total Score
‘Quality’ Rank
‘Safety’ Rank
1
Massachusetts
78.16
1
1
2
New Jersey
66.92
2
15
3
New Hampshire
64.65
4
14
4
Wisconsin
64.25
6
7
5
Vermont
64.09
5
11
6
Virginia
63.77
8
8
7
Minnesota
62.68
7
18
8
Connecticut
61.31
3
33
9
Iowa
61.06
11
9
10
Maine
59.93
16
4
11
Illinois
58.32
9
21
12
Delaware
58.09
29
2
13
North Carolina
57.68
27
6
14
Colorado
56.28
15
20
15
Kansas
56.24
23
16
16
Pennsylvania
56.10
28
10
17
Utah
55.95
24
17
18
Oklahoma
55.22
37
3
19
Maryland
54.79
10
35
20
North Dakota
54.67
17
23
21
Florida
54.02
31
12
22
Indiana
54.00
14
27
23
Ohio
53.51
22
24
24
Washington
53.36
26
5
25
Rhode Island
52.96
21
28
26
New York
52.52
20
32
27
Kentucky
51.58
13
41
28
California
51.45
39
13
29
Montana
51.40
19
37
30
Nebraska
51.22
12
44
31
Missouri
50.94
25
36
32
Michigan
50.55
30
26
33
Wyoming
50.40
18
42
34
Texas
49.15
33
29
35
South Carolina
48.58
40
22
36
Idaho
47.44
38
31
37
South Dakota
47.40
34
39
38
Georgia
47.32
36
38
39
Hawaii
47.23
43
19
40
Nevada
40.99
45
34
41
Arizona
40.91
48
25
42
Tennessee
40.58
35
49
43
Oregon
40.38
41
48
44
Alabama
39.06
42
46
45
Alaska
38.20
47
43
46
Arkansas
37.97
32
50
47
Mississippi
35.99
49
45
48
District of Columbia
35.85
50
30
49
West Virginia
35.42
46
47
50
New Mexico
34.79
51
40
51
Louisiana
27.42
44
51
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  #107  
Old 04-19-18, 07:29 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Both Red Blue represented , but overall in terms of growth economically, real estate , overall capital , and general economic success , Blue 'Counties ARE THE LEADERS , in these areas. Many more Red Counties in this country many small of course, but Blue Counties is where the majority og explosive economic growth occurs.

You can google those figures
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  #108  
Old 04-19-18, 07:34 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Cost Students

Half the weighting in evaluating education goes to pre-K through 12th grade. Overall, the generation progressing through school now is the most educated ever. In the 2016 Census, the source of this data, almost 90 percent of Americans had earned a high school diploma or GED. Wide differences exist in the education levels in the states, however. Rates of less than a ninth-grade education range from 11 percent in California to 3 percent in Utah. Iowa leads the nation in the percentage of students graduating from high school, slightly more than 90 percent, which is one of the key metrics involved in the Best States education ranking. The early start that children gain from pre-K education also is a factor. With nearly a quarter of children enrolled in preschool nationally, the Best States ranking shows New Jersey with the greatest, at almost one-third.

Best States for Pre-K - 12
Pre-K - 12 Rank

State
College Readiness

High School Graduation Rate

NAEP Math Scores

NAEP Reading Scores

Pre-K Quality

Preschool Enrollment

#1
Massachusetts
2
13
1
2
24
4
#2
New Hampshire
3
7
2
1
-
17
#3
New Jersey
6
2
4
5
14
2
#4
Vermont
7
11
5
3
30
1
#5
Connecticut
1
14
20
4
36
3
#6
Maine
17
12
18
14
6
7
#7
Minnesota
27
32
3
6
6
9
#8
Iowa
33
1
14
16
29
8
#9
Rhode Island
12
29
29
29
1
6
#10
Montana
24
19
9
7
-
32
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  #109  
Old 04-19-18, 08:22 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrycrane View Post
Cost Students

Half the weighting in evaluating education goes to pre-K through 12th grade. Overall, the generation progressing through school now is the most educated ever. .......
And yet comparative scores vs their counterparts in other countries show that American students continue to fall farther and farther behind those of other countries in critical and scientific skills..........
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  #110  
Old 04-19-18, 08:39 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrycrane View Post
Public School Ranking by State

Overall Rank
(1 = Best)
State
Total Score
‘Quality’ Rank
‘Safety’ Rank
1
Massachusetts
78.16
1
1
2
New Jersey
66.92
2
15
3
New Hampshire
64.65
4
14
4
Wisconsin
64.25
6
7
5
Vermont
64.09
5
11
6
Virginia
63.77
8
8
7
Minnesota
62.68
7
18
8
Connecticut
61.31
3
33
9
Iowa
61.06
11
9
10
Maine
59.93
16
4
11
Illinois
58.32
9
21
12
Delaware
58.09
29
2
13
North Carolina
57.68
27
6
14
Colorado
56.28
15
20
15
Kansas
56.24
23
16
16
Pennsylvania
56.10
28
10
17
Utah
55.95
24
17
18
Oklahoma
55.22
37
3
19
Maryland
54.79
10
35
20
North Dakota
54.67
17
23
21
Florida
54.02
31
12
22
Indiana
54.00
14
27
23
Ohio
53.51
22
24
24
Washington
53.36
26
5
25
Rhode Island
52.96
21
28
26
New York
52.52
20
32
27
Kentucky
51.58
13
41
28
California
51.45
39
13
29
Montana
51.40
19
37
30
Nebraska
51.22
12
44
31
Missouri
50.94
25
36
32
Michigan
50.55
30
26
33
Wyoming
50.40
18
42
34
Texas
49.15
33
29
35
South Carolina
48.58
40
22
36
Idaho
47.44
38
31
37
South Dakota
47.40
34
39
38
Georgia
47.32
36
38
39
Hawaii
47.23
43
19
40
Nevada
40.99
45
34
41
Arizona
40.91
48
25
42
Tennessee
40.58
35
49
43
Oregon
40.38
41
48
44
Alabama
39.06
42
46
45
Alaska
38.20
47
43
46
Arkansas
37.97
32
50
47
Mississippi
35.99
49
45
48
District of Columbia
35.85
50
30
49
West Virginia
35.42
46
47
50
New Mexico
34.79
51
40
51
Louisiana
27.42
44
51
Whose ranking and what are the measurables?
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  #111  
Old 04-20-18, 05:28 AM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Whose ranking and what are the measurables?
Looking at the top it says "total score, quality rank and safety rank". Not sure who's compilation this is, but using safety to generate an academic ranking is a joke.
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  #112  
Old 04-20-18, 06:30 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
Looking at the top it says "total score, quality rank and safety rank". Not sure who's compilation this is, but using safety to generate an academic ranking is a joke.
How do you measure safety? Is it the number of instances a kid gets a scraped knee on the playground or does a kid need to get shot for it to be counted as an incident?

What constitutes "quality"? If Harry is judging quality then it would need a lot of liberal teachings to be "quality". Do you judge quality by how much money is spent? Drop out rate? ACT scores? State testing scores? Student grades? Number of students who go on to college?

There are so many ways to measure. I just want to know how they measured each school.
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  #113  
Old 04-20-18, 08:04 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
......
There are so many ways to measure. I just want to know how they measured each school.
As Mark Twain said "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." If you go look at these "rankings" for public entities you will undoubtedly find out that part of the ranking is how much they spend on XXX. Not whether or not it was money well spent. I prefer to know the ratio of students that go on and GRADUATE from college (signifying that they were actually prepared for their post-secondary education not just accepting government grants to go to college and failing) and how much was spent on their education. What their test scores indicate (rising, falling, ranked among peers), and their rank within the state and nation with regards to attainment of the Blue Ribbon recognition.

Is "safety" really a ranking for how well someone is educated? Like including free lunches in the ranking. Tell me the actual results and then tell me why those results are significantly better/worse than others doing the same job/function. Don't try to make people feel good, make them understand.

People that throw there things out usually don't want you to look under the covers as to what it really means. Like healthcare "ranking", inevitably public-financed gets ranked higher than for profit. Making someone that can't/won't pay for healthcare feel better about receiving it is better than how many people are saved from cancer, or the ratio of people dying from various disease/injury factors or how quickly you can see a doctor or specialist......
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  #114  
Old 04-20-18, 10:20 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Harrycrane View Post
Both Red Blue represented , but overall in terms of growth economically, real estate , overall capital , and general economic success , Blue 'Counties ARE THE LEADERS , in these areas. Many more Red Counties in this country many small of course, but Blue Counties is where the majority og explosive economic growth occurs.

You can google those figures
Harry you are making an argument the left & anti-Trump folks have been making for at least the last year. On the surface it looks impressive but once you scratch the surface it means absolutely nothing because the stats you quote, from state GDP's to the rankings of various school districts, doesn't tell you ANYTHING about the QUALITY of those who did or did not vote for Trump.

First take GDP. The argument is that the richest and most productive parts of the USA voted for Clinton over Trump. Well so what. Consider California & New York, the two biggest Blue States according to population and economic output data. Why are these states so "rich" and "productive"? Is it because of progressive left practices? Or is it because both states are endowed with enormous natural resources and unique geographical locations?

Focus in on NY and you find a state that was blessed by one of North America's best natural harbors. Relatively close to Europe and ice free year round not to mention experiencing far fewer Hurricanes then more southerly Atlantic ports. And being originally established by the entrepreneurial Dutch endowed NYC with a mercantile mindset. This city has been a major North American economic and trading hub for over 300 years.

So what do the inhabitants of today's NYC have to do with the economic Juggernaut it has become? Especially considering most of them are poor, dependent democrat voters? The truth is that outside of some wall street types and folks who work in the arts scene, the majority of New York's democrat voters are like trust fund children - living off the fat their ancestors accumulated but doing very little of worth now.

Now let's focus on CA! The biggest state economy in the USA and it voted overwhelmingly for Hillary over Trump! So what does that tell us? Absolutely nothing of importance. Don't forget that when it comes to natural resources, geography and weather, CA is the luckiest state in the Union. Fronting the pacific with excellent ports and a climate that supports the richest & most diverse agricultural industry on earth have helped CA build that huge GDP - NOT progressive left practices.

And you know what else helped Harry? Until relatively recently, CA was a RED STATE - a DEEP RED STATE. CA wasn't built by the hordes of impoverished migrants eking out a living today, it was built by folks who if they were alive in 2016 would have likely cast their votes for Donald Trump!

Again, like NY, the overwhelming majority of democrat Californians are simply sucking off the wealth that others built before them. Give them another couple of decades, after the rest of the normal middle class folks have been driven out and CA will resemble a piss poor 3rd world hell hole with a very thin ultra rich crust sitting at the top and living along that beautiful CA coastline. Can you say Brazil.
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  #115  
Old 04-20-18, 10:25 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
And yet comparative scores vs their counterparts in other countries show that American students continue to fall farther and farther behind those of other countries in critical and scientific skills..........

and our country continues to blast their economics into a worm hole and is the source of most technilogical marvels.

Wonder where the disconnect is. Those looking for demons in the education system or maybe there's something not quite apples and apples about the testing or something "hidden" in those stats that's not supportive of agendas against the educational system.
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  #116  
Old 04-20-18, 10:29 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
and our country continues to blast their economics into a worm hole and is the source of most technilogical marvels.

Wonder where the disconnect is. Those looking for demons in the education system or maybe there's something not quite apples and apples about the testing or something "hidden" in those stats that's not supportive of agendas against the educational system.
Then again it only takes a relatively few folks to trigger massive technological breakthroughs. Isn't there a general rule of thumb that in a typical organization 20% of the people achieve 80% of the results?

It takes time for the bad practices of today to screw up what was accomplished over the centuries.
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  #117  
Old 04-20-18, 02:17 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
and our country continues to blast their economics into a worm hole and is the source of most technilogical marvels.

Wonder where the disconnect is. Those looking for demons in the education system or maybe there's something not quite apples and apples about the testing or something "hidden" in those stats that's not supportive of agendas against the educational system.
Isn't the complaint about the "haves" and the "have nots"? It follows the 80/20 rule, 80% of the work is done in 20% of the time and by 20% of the people. Everyone has the same opportunity in the schools, it's just that 20% do more with what they are provided.

The disconnect is that 20% of the population pays 80% of the taxes, makes 80% of the money, and contributes 80% of the economic and technological growth.

I doubt you can find 1 person that is against education, what people are against is the waste and inefficiencies of the system as it exists. Reform it, make it more efficient and effective and have it meet the needs of society and 80% of the complaints would go away.
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  #118  
Old 04-20-18, 02:57 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is online now
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And who better to figure it out than Erik Prince's mega donor sister with no relevant degree or credentials teaching, attending, or administrating in a public school system? Par for the course in Trump's cabinet.

People hate taxes. I get that. And many legit can't afford. Whether schools, potholes in roads, sewage treatment. Something else to ***** about. Funding system sucks.

I agree with SWMC though. Let's cut the cost in half, and at the same time double test scores. Brilliant idea!

Not a particularly noble or valued profession these days, in this country. Hardly cream of crop. Lucky people still want to do it, for the cost of a degree and continuing ed versus the pay. In many areas anyhow.
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