Before Expectations get too high for Valley View, let us do some review.
2008-2009 League Average Stats of VV players that played in >50% of League games
SCORING: VV was second averaging 64.66 PPG and had the #2 & #6 ranked scorers, second to Franklin's 66.64
REBOUNDING: VV lead league and had the 1st, 3rd and 4th ranked rebounders, Eaton was second with the #7 & #13 ranked players
ASSISTS: VV was last, the highest ranked player was ranked 23rd of 52 players, Bellbrook was 1st with the 1st & 2nd ranked players
STEALS: VV was 6th(next to last), Oakwood was 1st
BLOCKED SHOTS: VV was 5th of 7
With these numbers, where would you expect the team to have finished in the league?
VV Finished 4-12 and the 3 of the victories were the last 3 games of the year
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Game #1------------------------------------------ Game #2
Brookville L 77-86 2OT- Blew 14 point lead in 4th Q------------ W 63-58
Oakwood L 74-88 Out scored by Oakwood 49-37 in 2nd half-- W 80-67
Bellbrook L 88-92 Out scored by BB 55-41 in second half------- W 78-75 OT
Franklin L 53-78-------------------------------------------- L 63-76
Milton U. L 54-59-------------------------------------------- L 58-63
Eaton L 59-63-------------------------------------------- W 63-45
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From last years team of the players that had varsity experience they lost:
Jaryd Brown
John Day
David Dupps
Lucas Donson
Adam Emrick
Jordan Jacobs
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Returning Players with Varsity Experience
Rick Denny
Kyle Pohl
Brandon Fox
And they have the same coach.
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In addition, as of the last count, they have a total of 13 players in the program, for both the Varsity & JV.
Folks, they have some serious work to do, I would be suprised if they finished as good as last year!
Many of the JV & Freshman players didn't try out and two players moved out of the district.
It will be an interesting season?
Last edited by LLJJ : 11-18-09 at 05:40 PM.
Reason: Formatting
good point ll....the Fannin kid played as much varsity as any non starter and had good stats if I remember, I think he helped VV against Preble and Brookville, ...Great shot also. VV has had the talent so no one knows what to expect.
good point ll....the Fannin kid played as much varsity as any non starter and had good stats if I remember, I think he helped VV against Preble and Brookville, ...Great shot also. VV has had the talent so no one knows what to expect.
That's true. He's a 3pt shooter and came in and hit 5 3pt shots against Preble and then never hardly saw the court again. That happened to several players. You're correct bigair, VV has had the talent. Maybe it's the coaching?
Eaton wins by 10. Eaton has displayed some really good defense so far in the pre-season. We have more athleticism than we have had in the past and are able to apply some pretty good pressure. I was also impressed with improved patience on offense. An area that we need to expose and take advantage of is transition offense. When you have a 6'5" guard that rebounds well, get down the floor! Outlets need to be at half court, not trying to circle in behind.
Yea the SW Division is a Football conference. Outside of Bellbrook and maybe Oakwood, the SWBL SW looks mediocre. Milton has a new coach and very little returning talent. I look for the Dogs to win maybe 5 to 7 games overall. They'll be bringing up the rear in the SW Division. I look for the SW Division to end up something like this.
1. Bellbrook
2. Eaton
3. Oakwood
4. Franklin
5. Brookville
6. Valley View
7. Milton-Union
That's true. He's a 3pt shooter and came in and hit 5 3pt shots against Preble and then never hardly saw the court again. That happened to several players. You're correct bigair, VV has had the talent. Maybe it's the coaching?
I don't think so much as good points as just plain fact...and definately don't set expectations to high. Not sure about the number of kids, sounds kinda low. Going to go watch the scrimmage tomorrow night, get a good count then.
I don't think so much as good points as just plain fact...and definately don't set expectations to high. Not sure about the number of kids, sounds kinda low. Going to go watch the scrimmage tomorrow night, get a good count then.
Facts are important. I wonder if those "facts" mean anything to the A.D.? The number of kids sounds very low Enjoy the scrimmage Longhorn.
Yea the SW Division is a Football conference. Outside of Bellbrook and maybe Oakwood, the SWBL SW looks mediocre. Milton has a new coach and very little returning talent. I look for the Dogs to win maybe 5 to 7 games overall. They'll be bringing up the rear in the SW Division. I look for the SW Division to end up something like this.
1. Bellbrook
2. Eaton
3. Oakwood
4. Franklin
5. Brookville
6. Valley View
7. Milton-Union
Blessem, I think your pretty close on the rankings, here is my shot.
1. Bellbrook - brings back more varsity experience than any other team plus good young talent
2. Franklin - lost a lot but very good young talent
3. Eaton - Jackson, Strueing, French and Mooremier are starters coming back with a couple of Juniors in Woods and Bryant that will be able to step in and make an impact.
4. Oakwood - lost a lot - not sure of who is returning
5. Valley View - has the talent to win the league, can they get some chemistry?
6. Brookville - almost graduated everyone from last year's team.
7. Milton Union - lost their best talent to graduation
MU has to hope for some help from the new coach and maybe a kid or two to step up this year. Otherwise, MU might be the worst team on both sides. It's gonna be a bad BBall year in Milton. I fully expect them to finish 5-15
justan, just wanted to let you know in case you weren't aware that Eaton will be scrimmaging Carlisle at Carlisle on Tuesday. Should make for an interesting scrimmage.
So far I have been impressed with Eaton's intensity on defense and even our offense showed some muturity by having some patience against Greenville. What I really like is that the whole team is contributing. We have four Seniors returning that all have started or played signifcant playing time. Craig Jackson, Jordan Strueing, Alex Mooremeier and Micca Hickman will all be factors this year. We have two Juniors that we will be counting on to be big contributors in Jordan Bryant and TJ Woods. Then we have a 6'5 Sophmore, Jordan Bryant who is out until January and 6' 4' returning 1st team all league player, Cole French. We have two other Juniors that will be playing limited minutes but have speed and play with alot of energy in Dan Ferriel and Matt Fulcher.
I look for Carlisle to have alot of quickness with Jacobs and Emrick in the mix. I am interested to see how we handle the backcourt pressure. The more I see the more I am cautiously optimistic about Eaton competing well in the league this year.
I look forward to seeing this years Eagles play, especially with their new coach Shepherd. Having been passed over at VV after running the JV program for a few years, could make for some interesting get togethers. So what is your early take on coach Shepherd?
Saw the Indians scrimmage Tri Vilage last night, but hard to get a good gage on the prognosis. The footballers only had 2 practices prior to and Tri Village has a nice ball Team. I believe we were 2-4 or 3-3, a little rust to get out of the systems, Emerick was limited due to cramping and Jacobs got banged up as well..
The Indians should be a fun team to watch. They will be young, only one two year varsity starter in Emerick, Koogle has extensive varsity experience, outside of that they will be juniors and sophomores. Not a lot of size but as you stated, quickness, very good perimeter shooters and should play uptempo pressure defense. Should be fun, just will be a gauntlet on the Buckeye side this year but good experience for this young team.
I look forward to seeing this years Eagles play, especially with their new coach Shepherd. Having been passed over at VV after running the JV program for a few years, could make for some interesting get togethers. So what is your early take on coach Shepherd?
Saw the Indians scrimmage Tri Vilage last night, but hard to get a good gage on the prognosis. The footballers only had 2 practices prior to and Tri Village has a nice ball Team. I believe we were 2-4 or 3-3, a little rust to get out of the systems, Emerick was limited due to cramping and Jacobs got banged up as well..
The Indians should be a fun team to watch. They will be young, only one two year varsity starter in Emerick, Koogle has extensive varsity experience, outside of that they will be juniors and sophomores. Not a lot of size but as you stated, quickness, very good perimeter shooters and should play uptempo pressure defense. Should be fun, just will be a gauntlet on the Buckeye side this year but good experience for this young team.
I think Coach Shepherd is doing a good job, he relates well to the kids. He seems to mix his passion with tolerance pretty well. I like the fact that he lets the kids play. He seems to be a players coach.
justan, just wanted to let you know in case you weren't aware that Eaton will be scrimmaging Carlisle at Carlisle on Tuesday. Should make for an interesting scrimmage.
So far I have been impressed with Eaton's intensity on defense and even our offense showed some muturity by having some patience against Greenville. What I really like is that the whole team is contributing. We have four Seniors returning that all have started or played signifcant playing time. Craig Jackson, Jordan Strueing, Alex Mooremeier and Micca Hickman will all be factors this year. We have two Juniors that we will be counting on to be big contributors in Jordan Bryant and TJ Woods. Then we have a 6'5 Sophmore, Jordan Bryant who is out until January and 6' 4' returning 1st team all league player, Cole French. We have two other Juniors that will be playing limited minutes but have speed and play with alot of energy in Dan Ferriel and Matt Fulcher.
I look for Carlisle to have alot of quickness with Jacobs and Emrick in the mix. I am interested to see how we handle the backcourt pressure. The more I see the more I am cautiously optimistic about Eaton competing well in the league this year.
Eagle,
Looking forward to the Eaton scrimmage. I was impressed the the Tri Village team. They are 10 deep. City Dad's post is accurate. We were pretty rusty but the boys appeared to enjoy getting back to the round ball. See you Tuesday.
Eagle77, While I understand your support of your team, I have heard from others (not there personally) that eaton was the weakest team at the Alter Northmont scrimmage without a doubt. Yet you claim it a sucess??????
5-5 against who their back ups??????? Bud, The SWBL is weak if you predict your team to finish 3rd in that league it is 21 games and on to baseball with BART
Eagle77, While I understand your support of your team, I have heard from others (not there personally) that eaton was the weakest team at the Alter Northmont scrimmage without a doubt. Yet you claim it a sucess??????
5-5 against who their back ups??????? Bud, The SWBL is weak if you predict your team to finish 3rd in that league it is 21 games and on to baseball with BART
Jockey, sounds like your somewhat familiar with Eaton so you should know where the BB program has been for the last decade. We are on our 5th coach in 7 years and have finished in the toilet all but last year. This year we will take another big step forward. So you can take however you like but Eaton is a program that is improving.
As far as playing against anyone's second string, we were playing against the same players that were starting when they played the other teams at the scrimmage. We were always in every quarter and won some quite convincingly.
Don't know your knowledge of basketball but it doesn't take an Einstein to know the SWBL is not a great BB league. From what I seen at that scrimmage it looks to me that the other three teams are really going to struggle this year. Alter, of course may be the exception if they have some good BB players still playing football. I would welcome playing any of those teams during the season with the players they had at the scrimmage, believe me, we would do just fine.
Jockey, sounds like your somewhat familiar with Eaton so you should know where the BB program has been for the last decade. We are on our 5th coach in 7 years and have finished in the toilet all but last year. This year we will take another big step forward. So you can take however you like but Eaton is a program that is improving.
As far as playing against anyone's second string, we were playing against the same players that were starting when they played the other teams at the scrimmage. We were always in every quarter and won some quite convincingly.
Don't know your knowledge of basketball but it doesn't take an Einstein to know the SWBL is not a great BB league. From what I seen at that scrimmage it looks to me that the other three teams are really going to struggle this year. Alter, of course may be the exception if they have some good BB players still playing football. I would welcome playing any of those teams during the season with the players they had at the scrimmage, believe me, we would do just fine.
HH, we have a had an over zealous board member who really wanted the best for the boys basketball program as they had a son going through the program. We burned through some coaches pretty quickly that in my mind were not given a fair shake. I do think that we have finally got that out of our system and will settle down with the current coach. He is a first year varsity coach but I think he is going to make an outstanding coach. We also had some kids go through the program who, lets say, were not focused on basketball. Last year we seen a signifcant change in that area and this year we have some good leadership as far as the kids go. I also think the new coach relates very well with the kids and provides some energy and focus that the kids are responding well to. I think our future is bright.
HH, we have a had an over zealous board member who really wanted the best for the boys basketball program as they had a son going through the program. We burned through some coaches pretty quickly that in my mind were not given a fair shake. I do think that we have finally got that out of our system and will settle down with the current coach. He is a first year varsity coach but I think he is going to make an outstanding coach. We also had some kids go through the program who, lets say, were not focused on basketball. Last year we seen a signifcant change in that area and this year we have some good leadership as far as the kids go. I also think the new coach relates very well with the kids and provides some energy and focus that the kids are responding well to. I think our future is bright.
Thanks for your take on the situation, EF.
This stuff is SO prevalent today. Certain folks who mean well as board members, but just don't look at the big and "long-range" picture, make moves and decisions that are too short-sighted. Unfortunately, some very worthy coaches get caught in the crossfire, as all the machinations happen behind-the-scenes.
well time to flex my basketball knowledge......I have none. I do have a sense of how things will be. Here is my forcast for the league this yr.
1.Bellbrook...always at the top every yr.
2. Franklin... lost some but have some really nice players coming up
3.Oakwood...just because they play half their games in the pit
4.Eaton...will still find a way to lose a few games, they are not confident in how to win yet...but it is coming
5. Valley View.....not sure about their coaching....hearing not enough players out
6. Brookville...lost everybody
7. Milton Union....just because
the biggest concern is how well Eaton plays together and how much one on one they do. If players are concerned about winning they will not worry about numbers and who makes 1st team.
This stuff is SO prevalent today. Certain folks who mean well as board members, but just don't look at the big and "long-range" picture, make moves and decisions that are too short-sighted. Unfortunately, some very worthy coaches get caught in the crossfire, as all the machinations happen behind-the-scenes.
Good luck with your squad this season.
On the other hand, some very un-worthy coaches get hired as well!
well time to flex my basketball knowledge......I have none. I do have a sense of how things will be. Here is my forcast for the league this yr.
1.Bellbrook...always at the top every yr.
2. Franklin... lost some but have some really nice players coming up
3.Oakwood...just because they play half their games in the pit
4.Eaton...will still find a way to lose a few games, they are not confident in how to win yet...but it is coming
5. Valley View.....not sure about their coaching....hearing not enough players out
6. Brookville...lost everybody
7. Milton Union....just because
the biggest concern is how well Eaton plays together and how much one on one they do. If players are concerned about winning they will not worry about numbers and who makes 1st team.
If you have had the opportunity to watch the team and see how they are playing I don't think your biggest concern is a concern worth worrying about.
Answer to your question Hoop Hound – Board member Rick McKinney has been behind every coaching change over the last 7 years, including running out a 300 varsity win, Ohio Hall of Fame, former college coach – Moomeier for a zero varsity win, life long jv coach - Shepard. If McKinney wouldn’t have run his end around last spring, Eaton would be competing for a SWBL championship with Moormeier at the helm. It is highly doubtful they will do it with Shepard. He has been passed over more than once for varsity jobs for a reason.
Moormeier did the heavy lifting over the previous 2 years and didn’t get to stick around to see the results of his work. He got more wins last year than the previous 3 years combined. He taught those boys how to win, got kids to come out for basketball and got fans in the stands.
McKinney and Shepard ran off Newman, Dudas and almost Jackson (and two others) this year. It will be Cole French next year. By not having summer camps for the 7th and 8th graders the numbers trying out went from 60 to 30. Not a great way to build a program.
Jockey you hit the nail on the head. At EHS there is football, wrestling, baseball, cross country and cheerleading ahead of basketball. The cheerleaders have dibs on East gym ahead of the freshman boys team. Why do cheerleaders need baskets to practice?
EagleFan77 I love your enthusiasm and your political correctness in discussing Eaton sports. More programs need supporters like yourself. You are a good man. Eaton schools have great fans but they lack strong leadership from the school board, superintendent, principal and athletic director.
So when the losses start building up make sure you go up to Rick McKinney and thank him.
When the fans quit coming out, thank Rick.
When more players quit coming out for basketball, thank Rick.
When Cole French transfers after this year, thank Rick.
When Shepard realizes what he has gotten himself into and leaves, thank Rick.
When nobody applies for the varsity basketball job at Eaton next year, thank Rick.
I look forward to seeing this years Eagles play, especially with their new coach Shepherd. Having been passed over at VV after running the JV program for a few years, could make for some interesting get togethers. So what is your early take on coach Shepherd?
Saw the Indians scrimmage Tri Vilage last night, but hard to get a good gage on the prognosis. The footballers only had 2 practices prior to and Tri Village has a nice ball Team. I believe we were 2-4 or 3-3, a little rust to get out of the systems, Emerick was limited due to cramping and Jacobs got banged up as well..
The Indians should be a fun team to watch. They will be young, only one two year varsity starter in Emerick, Koogle has extensive varsity experience, outside of that they will be juniors and sophomores. Not a lot of size but as you stated, quickness, very good perimeter shooters and should play uptempo pressure defense. Should be fun, just will be a gauntlet on the Buckeye side this year but good experience for this young team.
That could be a very interesting scrimmage with 2 former VV coaches going at it.
Justan, sorry you think that everytime I mention Adam or Jordan it is negative. VV will definetly miss both of them this year. Adam was by far their best on ball defender last year and could always be counted on to give 110%. He was a streaky shooter that could hit some long 3's once he got hot. I felt he needed to go to the basket more. He has a very explosive first step.
Jordan played well in his limited varsity playing time last year. Maybe he tried to do to much on the JV? (I don't think VV JV coach does a very good job, too many kids sit on the bench and don't play.) He seemed to be more under control when he played with varsity. He has the potentional to be a good high school player. He's very fast and can penetrate the lane. If he makes good decesions he will be one of Carlisle's better players. Hope that's not to negative for you.
As far as Lemke goes, I'm all for giving somebody a chance. I was really shocked when they pasted Shepherd over for Lemke but I still think they were trying to get some stability in the program. Shepherd would have went to Eaton this year anyway more then likely. I also think if the numbers are down as I have read and VV doesn't go at least .500 this year a change needs to be made.
To reply to a few other post I have read, when Gunter left I thought it was because his teaching position at VV was eliminated and he couldn't get another teaching job to fit into with his coaching job. I may be wrong about this but I'm not sure. I thought Gunter knew basketball fine but I don't think he related to the kids very well.
Valley View's biggest mistake they have made basketball wise was Waugh leaving. Those at VV know why he left. He is a good coach, knows how to win, realtes well with the players and just about everyone likes him. I know the two kids from VV transfered over basketball and they couldn't have picked a better coach to play for IMO.
If you have had the opportunity to watch the team and see how they are playing I don't think your biggest concern is a concern worth worrying about.
my opportunity will come soon enough. the season hasnt started yet and I am not real concerned with scrimmages. Things seem to change when the stands are full and the pressure is on. Remember I only have based this concern knowing the players that are returning and the way they played last year. Here's hoping they prove me wrong. Just cant help but feel that the ugly parents involvment will come to pass. I guess its a fear of pasts seasons. I so hope for success of the program and actually seeing 12 players play for a common goal and not players worried about stats. Glory comes to teams with victory's
Sounds as if VV and Eaton have a history of parents wanting to run the scholastic programs at schools. Being a VV grad in the early 70s and a Carlisle resident the last 7 years I stay very close to friends and family in the Gtwon area following both programs.
At the View it appears there is a correlation between board members kids and coaching changes to ensure playing time. Waugh was forced out by two board members over their kids not playing, Waugh had success at VV and continues to have success at Carlisle. Gunter was forced out by some board members with kids involved, he won one league title in 4 years and in his first two years at Arcanum he has been a district finalist and regional finalist. Then the Views most recent hire was questionable at best. A freshman coach who I am told was 1-16 the previous year prior to his hiring. I was also told he was chosen from 25 applicants many of whom had varsity experience, makes you scratch your head a little. I know one poster on here keeps asking for his resume, but nobody seems to know or wants to discuss?
Eagle, PoolHall, Eaton, it sounds as if there has been similar disruption there in the Eagle program. I think you may actually be ahead of VV as far at the coaching change race. Its just a shame when parents become board members to put their childs interest and their own interests ahead of what they are elected for, good luck with your situation and good luck this season.
Shepherd is young but had some success at VV with the JV program and with what the two above mentioned ex VV coaches have done you may have a diamond in the rough...Good luck
Sounds as if VV and Eaton have a history of parents wanting to run the scholastic programs at schools. Being a VV grad in the early 70s and a Carlisle resident the last 7 years I stay very close to friends and family in the Gtwon area following both programs.
At the View it appears there is a correlation between board members kids and coaching changes to ensure playing time. Waugh was forced out by two board members over their kids not playing, Waugh had success at VV and continues to have success at Carlisle. Gunter was forced out by some board members with kids involved, he won one league title in 4 years and in his first two years at Arcanum he has been a district finalist and regional finalist. Then the Views most recent hire was questionable at best. A freshman coach who I am told was 1-16 the previous year prior to his hiring. I was also told he was chosen from 25 applicants many of whom had varsity experience, makes you scratch your head a little. I know one poster on here keeps asking for his resume, but nobody seems to know or wants to discuss?
Eagle, PoolHall, Eaton, it sounds as if there has been similar disruption there in the Eagle program. I think you may actually be ahead of VV as far at the coaching change race. Its just a shame when parents become board members to put their childs interest and their own interests ahead of what they are elected for, good luck with your situation and good luck this season.
Shepherd is young but had some success at VV with the JV program and with what the two above mentioned ex VV coaches have done you may have a diamond in the rough...Good luck
Arcanum has not been to the regional in the last 2 years. 2 years ago they lost in the district game to NCH. Last year they lost in the sectional to Dayton Christian.
I wonder if those "facts" mean anything to the A.D.? The number of kids sounds very low
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