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  #721  
Old 11-06-17, 11:54 AM
19AL63 19AL63 is offline
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They keep reporting that Mueller is about to charge another of Trump's people and the left gets warm and fuzzy think we got him and then the charge comes out and it is for some crime from passed years and nothing about Trump and Russia. I do not care if he keeps wasting time and money trying to get Trump, but if he does not start to investigate Hillary and the Democrats shame on him. You keep hearing that the investigation will go where the evidence leads and right now I do not think that is happening.
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  #722  
Old 11-06-17, 11:55 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I think most of us Trumptards would readily admit that Manafort is a sleaze bag; that's why he was fired! And for sure if he's guilty of the things he's charged with put him in jail. But nothing that Manafort has been charged with has anything to do with Trump colluding with Russia to impact the election.
In fact, Mueller's investigation has been an abject failure if the goal was to find the Trump campaign colluded with Russia. No one that is facing indictments have been called out for things done on behalf of our during the campaign.

There's far more evidence of Hillary and the Dems than Trump was involved with colluding with Russia or having ties to shady deals.
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  #723  
Old 11-06-17, 12:12 PM
BlueJayFan BlueJayFan is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
In fact, Mueller's investigation has been an abject failure if the goal was to find the Trump campaign colluded with Russia. No one that is facing indictments have been called out for things done on behalf of our during the campaign.

There's far more evidence of Hillary and the Dems than Trump was involved with colluding with Russia or having ties to shady deals.
Manaforts dates back to March 2016, when he was involved with the Trump campaign

He's charged with CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE UNITED STATES
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  #724  
Old 11-06-17, 12:23 PM
fish82 fish82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
Manaforts dates back to March 2016, when he was involved with the Trump campaign

He's charged with CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE UNITED STATES
Might want to read up on that charge a little deeper, dude. It's not as sexy as you think it is. It's basically tax evasion.
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  #725  
Old 11-06-17, 12:32 PM
BlueJayFan BlueJayFan is offline
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Can't wait for Kushner to go down and for all of you Trump sheep to do whatever you can to make excuses
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  #726  
Old 11-06-17, 12:38 PM
fish82 fish82 is offline
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Can't wait until 2020 when Trump is still POTUS, and BJF is still triggered.
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  #727  
Old 11-06-17, 06:11 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
Manaforts dates back to March 2016, when he was involved with the Trump campaign

He's charged with CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE UNITED STATES
No, his charges were about work he did on behalf of Ukraine (which ended in 2014) and as fish pointed out it's about tax evasion.

Papadopoulos WAS Working for the campaign in 2016 as he talked to various foreign citizens - so you are confused, but no surprise there. Papadopoulos WAS working on behalf of the campaign but there is no evidence that there was any collusion between the campaign and Russia not that anyone high up actually met with anyone. But even if they did that doesn't mean collusion, just like Obama when he met with Hamas and Iran in the runup to the 2008 election.
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  #728  
Old 11-06-17, 07:29 PM
domi domi is offline
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This is kinda looking like the Benghazi investigation where Republicans were convinced there was a stand down order or some other conspiracy that took place during the attack and the Hillary private email server is all that came out of it.
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  #729  
Old 11-06-17, 11:33 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Originally Posted by domi View Post
This is kinda looking like the Benghazi investigation where Republicans were convinced there was a stand down order or some other conspiracy that took place during the attack and the Hillary private email server is all that came out of it.
This game is only in the second inning....
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  #730  
Old 11-07-17, 12:02 AM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
No one that is facing indictments have been called out for things done on behalf of or during the campaign.
True for Manafort, not true for Papadopoulos by a long shot. He admits he was attempting to connect with foreign sources with connections to the Russian government who promised a better Trump campaign-Russia relationship and stated they had "dirt" on Clinton, including "thousands of emails." He also implicated other members of the campaign.

The key part of the indictment reads

"On or about March 31, 2016, defendant PAPADOPOULOS attended a “national security meeting” in Washington, D.C. with then-candidate Trump and other foreign policy advisors for the Campaign. When defendant PAPADOPOULOS introduced himself to the group, he stated, in sum and substance, that he had connections that could help arrange a meeting between then-candidate Trump and President Putin."

The basic timeline(according to the indictment)

Early March 2016: Papadopoulos was told he would become a foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign in March 2016 by a “campaign supervisor.” He was also told that a better relationship with Russia would be a “principal foreign policy focus of the Campaign.”

Late March 2016: He met with an individual who “claimed to have substantial connections with Russian government officials, which defendant Papadopoulos thought could increase his importance as a policy adviser to the Campaign.” Later in the month, he met with allegedly a “relative of Russian President Vladimir Putin with connections to senior Russian government officials.”

Early April 2016: Met with "high-level Russian government officials,” and learned the Russians had “dirt” on Hillary Clinton, including “thousands of emails.”

Late April 2016: Continued to pursue an off-the-record meeting between campaign representatives and “members of president putin’s office.” The campaign continued to express warmth toward the idea of a meeting.

The questions are now
- Who were the “campaign supervisor” and “high-ranking campaign official?"

- Were Papadopoulos and the campaign attempting to set up a meeting for the purposes of gaining dirt regarding Hillary?

- Is any of this related to the meeting between Don Jr, Kushner, etc. and front lawyers for the Russians?

- What was Papadopoulos trying to hide?

Those questions will determine a lot. But regardless, to claim none of the "called out" things are alleged to have occurred during or on behalf of the campaign is blatantly wrong.
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  #731  
Old 11-07-17, 07:01 AM
gneiss rocks gneiss rocks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
True for Manafort, not true for Papadopoulos by a long shot. He admits he was attempting to connect with foreign sources with connections to the Russian government who promised a better Trump campaign-Russia relationship and stated they had "dirt" on Clinton, including "thousands of emails." He also implicated other members of the campaign.

The key part of the indictment reads

"On or about March 31, 2016, defendant PAPADOPOULOS attended a “national security meeting” in Washington, D.C. with then-candidate Trump and other foreign policy advisors for the Campaign. When defendant PAPADOPOULOS introduced himself to the group, he stated, in sum and substance, that he had connections that could help arrange a meeting between then-candidate Trump and President Putin."

The basic timeline(according to the indictment)

Early March 2016: Papadopoulos was told he would become a foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign in March 2016 by a “campaign supervisor.” He was also told that a better relationship with Russia would be a “principal foreign policy focus of the Campaign.”

Late March 2016: He met with an individual who “claimed to have substantial connections with Russian government officials, which defendant Papadopoulos thought could increase his importance as a policy adviser to the Campaign.” Later in the month, he met with allegedly a “relative of Russian President Vladimir Putin with connections to senior Russian government officials.”

Early April 2016: Met with "high-level Russian government officials,” and learned the Russians had “dirt” on Hillary Clinton, including “thousands of emails.”

Late April 2016: Continued to pursue an off-the-record meeting between campaign representatives and “members of president putin’s office.” The campaign continued to express warmth toward the idea of a meeting.

The questions are now
- Who were the “campaign supervisor” and “high-ranking campaign official?"

- Were Papadopoulos and the campaign attempting to set up a meeting for the purposes of gaining dirt regarding Hillary?

- Is any of this related to the meeting between Don Jr, Kushner, etc. and front lawyers for the Russians?

- What was Papadopoulos trying to hide?

Those questions will determine a lot. But regardless, to claim none of the "called out" things are alleged to have occurred during or on behalf of the campaign is blatantly wrong.
Your last sentence...
Getting along with Russia, meeting Putin, and finding the truth about Clinton are all very good things for our country and not illegal. Trump said he wanted this many times during the campaign. I would hope he had more people on it than this guy.
Funny how something so good gets spun by the media into "the evil Russian collusion"
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  #732  
Old 11-07-17, 07:35 AM
fish82 fish82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
This game is only in the second inning....
Yeah...more like the 6th inning.
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  #733  
Old 11-07-17, 07:44 AM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
This game is only in the second inning....
Your side has been striking out way too much for this to only be the second inning.
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  #734  
Old 11-07-17, 08:09 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
......
Those questions will determine a lot. But regardless, to claim none of the "called out" things are alleged to have occurred during or on behalf of the campaign is blatantly wrong.
Actually, that's going to depend on IF a meeting actually occurred and what the topic was. Meeting with foreign leaders is not apparently a big deal as Obama met with representatives of Hamas and Iran as a candidate in 2007 and 2008. If no meeting occurred or there was no substantive meeting then it's all smoke and no fire.

We don't know if Obama sold us out in those meetings although various things said and done during his Presidency would have you thinking maybe he did.......
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  #735  
Old 11-07-17, 09:26 AM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
Actually, that's going to depend on IF a meeting actually occurred and what the topic was
Agreed, Papadopoulos could have been rogue and is now trying to sell out those higher in the food chain to save his hide. However, your statement was that none of the things in the indictment were alleged to have occurred during or on behalf of the campaign, that isn't correct.
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  #736  
Old 11-07-17, 02:49 PM
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thepolster thepolster is offline
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Originally Posted by fish82 View Post
Can't wait until 2020 when Trump is still POTUS, and BJF is still triggered.
LOL that fool is trying his hardest not to be POTUS.. plus his old will be dead by then and i will be pissing on his grave.. MEME of the century
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  #737  
Old 11-07-17, 03:23 PM
fish82 fish82 is offline
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LOL that fool is trying his hardest not to be POTUS.. plus his old will be dead by then and i will be pissing on his grave.. MEME of the century
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Originally Posted by thepolster View Post
Trumps never gonna get above 45 %. Keep it real. All the right leaning polls isnt going to make a difference. You know dam well Trump doesnt have a path to 270. Get over it already
Whatever you say, Nostradamus.
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  #738  
Old 11-07-17, 03:46 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Polster is so triggered
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  #739  
Old 11-07-17, 05:09 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
True for Manafort, not true for Papadopoulos by a long shot. He admits he was attempting to connect with foreign sources with connections to the Russian government who promised a better Trump campaign-Russia relationship and stated they had "dirt" on Clinton, including "thousands of emails." He also implicated other members of the campaign.

The key part of the indictment reads

"On or about March 31, 2016, defendant PAPADOPOULOS attended a “national security meeting” in Washington, D.C. with then-candidate Trump and other foreign policy advisors for the Campaign. When defendant PAPADOPOULOS introduced himself to the group, he stated, in sum and substance, that he had connections that could help arrange a meeting between then-candidate Trump and President Putin."

The basic timeline(according to the indictment)

Early March 2016: Papadopoulos was told he would become a foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign in March 2016 by a “campaign supervisor.” He was also told that a better relationship with Russia would be a “principal foreign policy focus of the Campaign.”

Late March 2016: He met with an individual who “claimed to have substantial connections with Russian government officials, which defendant Papadopoulos thought could increase his importance as a policy adviser to the Campaign.” Later in the month, he met with allegedly a “relative of Russian President Vladimir Putin with connections to senior Russian government officials.”

Early April 2016: Met with "high-level Russian government officials,” and learned the Russians had “dirt” on Hillary Clinton, including “thousands of emails.”

Late April 2016: Continued to pursue an off-the-record meeting between campaign representatives and “members of president putin’s office.” The campaign continued to express warmth toward the idea of a meeting.

The questions are now
- Who were the “campaign supervisor” and “high-ranking campaign official?"

- Were Papadopoulos and the campaign attempting to set up a meeting for the purposes of gaining dirt regarding Hillary?

- Is any of this related to the meeting between Don Jr, Kushner, etc. and front lawyers for the Russians?

- What was Papadopoulos trying to hide?

Those questions will determine a lot. But regardless, to claim none of the "called out" things are alleged to have occurred during or on behalf of the campaign is blatantly wrong.
Which of those suspected actions are criminal ?
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  #740  
Old 11-07-17, 05:12 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Some more on the increasing evidence that the famous Russian meeting with Don Trump Jr was a DNC/Clinton campaign set-up in collusion with the Russians!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...-sit-down.html

The co-founder of Fusion GPS, the firm behind the unverified Trump dossier, met with a Russian lawyer before and after a key meeting she had last year with Trump’s son, Fox News has learned. The contacts shed new light on how closely tied the firm was to Russian interests, at a time when it was financing research to discredit then-candidate Donald Trump.


I wonder if any of this stuff even interests Mueller:

The June 2016 Trump Tower meeting involving Donald Trump Jr. and Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya occurred during a critical period. At that time, Fox News has learned that bank records show Fusion GPS was paid by a law firm for work on behalf of a Kremlin-linked oligarch while paying a former British spy Christopher Steele to dig up dirt on Trump through his Russian contacts.

But hours before the Trump Tower meeting on June 9, 2016, Fusion co-founder and ex-Wall Street Journal reporter Glenn Simpson was with Veselnitskaya in a Manhattan federal courtroom, a confidential source told Fox News. Court records reviewed by Fox News, email correspondence and published reports corroborate the pair’s presence together. The source told Fox News they also were together after the Trump Tower meeting.

Simpson’s presence with Veselnitskaya during this critical week in June -- together with revelations about Fusion’s simultaneous financial ties to the DNC, Clinton campaign and Russian interests -- raise new questions about the company’s role in the 2016 election.



I wonder if Mueller is interested in this?

The DNC and Clinton campaign hired Fusion in April 2016 through lawyer Marc Elias, who was general counsel for the Clinton campaign. Fusion, in turn, paid Steele $168,000 for the dossier, memos from which were shared with the FBI in the summer of 2016.

Fusion officials said last week Steele's money came from $1.02 million it received in fees and expenses from Elias' law firm Perkins Coie. Prior to contracting with the DNC, Fusion had been conducting research into Trump and other Republican candidates on behalf of the conservative website The Washington Free Beacon......

Akhmetshin also attended the June 9 Trump Tower meeting, along with about a half-dozen others including Trump Jr., Paul Manafort, Jared Kushner, publicist Rob Goldstone, Natalia's Russian translator Anatoli Samochornov and Ike Kaveladze from a Russian-American real estate agency......

"What we are finding out is that there is a lot of Russian influence in Washington, and a lot of money flowing in to influence our political process in Washington," Marc Thiessen, a Washington Post columnist and former Bush administration official, said. "It's going into Hlilary Clinton. It's going to Fusion GPS. It's going into a lobbying campaign up on Capitol Hill against Magnitsky."
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  #741  
Old 11-07-17, 05:16 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Which of those suspected actions are criminal ?
Exactly cabe. And isn't it interesting when you compare NEO's "list" against a list of actions taken by the Clinton campaign, the DNC, Fusion GPS and the Russians. Which one comes off as the most serious and which one is likely to have real violations of the law?

From what I'm hearing it's growing ever more likely that the Trump Jr meeting with the Russian was an attempted set-up coordinated by the Clinton campaign AND the Russian government - something I suspect is very illegal.
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  #742  
Old 11-07-17, 06:37 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Would it make you feel better if I did the same breakdown for the Clinton campaigns alleged and potential transgressions?

If the argument is: from what we know, the Clinton campaign was dirtier than the Trump campaign and should be investigated for potential collusion, then I agree.

I've long said the most likely explanation is Russia sought to discredit both candidates so no matter who was elected the country would be hyper-divided. Their FB ad buys focusing on inciting race relations rather than attacking one candidate are a solid support of this hypothesis.

They were able to get real dirt on Hillary by "hacking" her emails, where as with Trump they had to manufacturer a fake dossier and likely try to corrupt those they saw as useful idiots on the campaign(Don Jr, Kushner, Papadopoulos) or insert someone they already knew they had dirt on(Manafort) into the campaign.

If either side did collude/attempt to collude, it's likely because the Clinton campaign was corrupt, and the Trump campaign was incompetent(meaning inexperienced, obviously they were good enough to win.)
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  #743  
Old 11-07-17, 08:07 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
Would it make you feel better if I did the same breakdown for the Clinton campaigns alleged and potential transgressions?

If the argument is: from what we know, the Clinton campaign was dirtier than the Trump campaign and should be investigated for potential collusion, then I agree.

I've long said the most likely explanation is Russia sought to discredit both candidates so no matter who was elected the country would be hyper-divided. Their FB ad buys focusing on inciting race relations rather than attacking one candidate are a solid support of this hypothesis.

They were able to get real dirt on Hillary by "hacking" her emails, where as with Trump they had to manufacturer a fake dossier and likely try to corrupt those they saw as useful idiots on the campaign(Don Jr, Kushner, Papadopoulos) or insert someone they already knew they had dirt on(Manafort) into the campaign.

If either side did collude/attempt to collude, it's likely because the Clinton campaign was corrupt, and the Trump campaign was incompetent(meaning inexperienced, obviously they were good enough to win.)
I think this last paragraph is a fair description of what may have happened and represents a WORST CASE SCENARIO for Trump. The Trump campaign was very inexperienced at this stuff and suffered from not only an active opposition from the sitting administration but also was being sabotaged daily by GOP insiders trying to undermine his campaign every step of the way. That his son or other members of his campaign took ill advised meetings with Russians, meetings that increasingly look like set ups, is not unexpected.

In contrast what is emerging about the conduct of the Obama administration, the DNC, the FBI, other deep state agencies and the Clinton campaign is looking more like widespread corruption & abuse of power then simple collusion. In fact they acted like they could get away with this because they were sure they would win the presidency and bury all the evidence of their actions. That didn't happen and hiding what they did is their number one priority. That would explain their irrational response & actions in the face of the Trump victory. They are desperate and it increasingly looks like they should be.
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  #744  
Old 11-07-17, 08:19 PM
gneiss rocks gneiss rocks is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Exactly cabe. And isn't it interesting when you compare NEO's "list" against a list of actions taken by the Clinton campaign, the DNC, Fusion GPS and the Russians. Which one comes off as the most serious and which one is likely to have real violations of the law?

From what I'm hearing it's growing ever more likely that the Trump Jr meeting with the Russian was an attempted set-up coordinated by the Clinton campaign AND the Russian government - something I suspect is very illegal.
Paying a RussIan agent to be a cross party faux rat plant double agent...what does that pay? And how many sides pay you? The russian colusion agent is a real colusion double agent for the other side...

Then again, what if Trump paid her first to talk the dems into this? If so, well done Mr.Trump and Mr Putin you guys are awesome.

Last edited by gneiss rocks; 11-08-17 at 05:39 AM.
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  #745  
Old 11-08-17, 09:02 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Paying a RussIan agent to be a cross party faux rat plant double agent...what does that pay? And how many sides pay you? The russian colusion agent is a real colusion double agent for the other side...

Then again, what if Trump paid her first to talk the dems into this? If so, well done Mr.Trump and Mr Putin you guys are awesome.
GR you're making my head explode here! Funny though how stuff that would have seemed completely outlandish ten years ago seems almost plausible today. When you consider how the Obama administration apparently used America's vast intelligence networks to spy on the Trump campaign and Trump transition team; how the Clinton campaign appeared to be working with the Russians to damage Trump; how the FBI was playing a game all their own and how members of Trump's own party (I'm looking at you Senator McCain) tried to sabotage Trump even AFTER his election - anything seems plausible and possible now.
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  #746  
Old 11-08-17, 12:32 PM
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MoeDude MoeDude is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
...
From what I'm hearing it's growing ever more likely that the Trump Jr meeting with the Russian was an attempted set-up coordinated by the Clinton campaign AND the Russian government - something I suspect is very illegal.
This was leaked early on but the media and die hard lefties ignored it from day one. The Left will do anything because the end justifies the means for them.
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  #747  
Old 11-08-17, 04:19 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Agreed, Papadopoulos could have been rogue and is now trying to sell out those higher in the food chain to save his hide. However, your statement was that none of the things in the indictment were alleged to have occurred during or on behalf of the campaign, that isn't correct.
I would agree with that. But the point is, at this point there has been no real evidence that anything illegal has occurred with regard to the campaign.
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