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  #61  
Old 07-15-18, 10:18 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Right on cue, just out yesterday: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...ns-report.html Corp. welfare. For conservatives profits are privatized costs are socialized.

Point being however, according to SWMC and jmog the billions in taxes spent on military protection, war, health, safety, environmental, and LIVES, are not subsidies and should not be included in cost analyses.
You do understand that the federal government raked in $35B in tax receipts for motor fuels last year, right? Indiana is pulling down nearly $800M annually. Then you have to add in corporate income taxes, sales taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, transportation taxes....... that are on top of the sales taxes. So the industry is basically paying for it's own cleanup. Exactly what part of "subsidized" are you really understanding?
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  #62  
Old 07-15-18, 10:24 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
You do understand that the federal government raked in $35B in tax receipts for motor fuels last year, right? Indiana is pulling down nearly $800M annually. Then you have to add in corporate income taxes, sales taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, transportation taxes....... that are on top of the sales taxes. So the industry is basically paying for it's own cleanup. Exactly what part of "subsidized" are you really understanding?
Exactly what part of anything is he really understanding?
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  #63  
Old 07-15-18, 03:27 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Hammerin'Hank View Post
You are probably too dumb realize that at least 1/3 of the feed value remains with the corn in the form of dried distillers grain after ethanol is made. Corn oil is also a by-product.

But then of course if your mommy still buys your cereal, you probably have no need to learn all of that.
I eat steel cut oats with organic blueberries and vanilla almond milk, two fried eggs, and a ham slice or two every weekday morning........some weekend days. Weekends I'll go off on a huge family breakfast at least one day. Pancakes might have a Jiffy cornbread box mixed in, or french toast, or fried gold potatoes for a starch. Maybe omlettes or scrambled eggs with all but french toast, bacon or sausage in copious amounts regardless.

Never cereal. Grapeseed oil in lieu of corn oil.
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  #64  
Old 07-15-18, 03:28 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
I don't even care about the cost aspect in regards to other products, just never came across someone who disputed the fact that ethanol was hard on small engines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Exactly what part of anything is he really understanding?

One can't know what they don't know, you know ?
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  #65  
Old 07-15-18, 03:40 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
One can't know what they don't know, you know ?
I know there are things that I don't know.

And I'm sure there are things that I don't know that I do know.

But yes, there are some things that I don't know that I don't know.

Maybe.
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  #66  
Old 07-15-18, 03:49 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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One usually doesn't realize that he knows something he didn't know he knew until he really needs it, and then it's like finding a forgotten 20 in a jacket pocket - right ?


So sad for ol' Henry that such an experience probably continues to elude him.....you know ?
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  #67  
Old 07-15-18, 04:09 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Turn off your mind, relax and float down stream ...
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  #68  
Old 07-15-18, 10:53 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Turn off your mind, relax and float down stream ...
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  #69  
Old 07-15-18, 11:25 PM
jmog jmog is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Right on cue, just out yesterday: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...ns-report.html Corp. welfare. For conservatives profits are privatized costs are socialized.

Point being however, according to SWMC and jmog the billions in taxes spent on military protection, war, health, safety, environmental, and LIVES, are not subsidies and should not be included in cost analyses.
You may want to actually read what I write and not add a thing to it.
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  #70  
Old 07-18-18, 02:30 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Oil rig count in the US is currently around 863 rigs producing oil compared to almost 1600 in use in 2014 : https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_oil_rotary_rigs. Trump has used his bully pulpit to tell drug companies to keep price increases to a minimum ( mostly to little effect ), why isn't he telling the oil companies to increase production more than what they are.
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  #71  
Old 07-18-18, 04:42 PM
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EagleFan EagleFan is online now
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but but peak oil
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  #72  
Old 07-18-18, 04:52 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Oil rig count in the US is currently around 863 rigs producing oil compared to almost 1600 in use in 2014 : https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_oil_rotary_rigs. Trump has used his bully pulpit to tell drug companies to keep price increases to a minimum ( mostly to little effect ), why isn't he telling the oil companies to increase production more than what they are.
US oil production in 2014 was 8.7mbpd.
US oil production in 2018 is 10.8mbpd.

Looks like the rigs in production are producing more oil.

Oh, Oil production is up btw.
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  #73  
Old 07-19-18, 07:47 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
US oil production in 2014 was 8.7mbpd.
US oil production in 2018 is 10.8mbpd.

Looks like the rigs in production are producing more oil.

Oh, Oil production is up btw.
US production topped 11 million BPD last week:

https://www.investors.com/news/oil-p...-crude-prices/

Look for a BIG drop in gasoline prices in August.
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  #74  
Old 07-19-18, 08:54 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by EagleFan View Post
but but peak oil
Abiogenic petroleum a thing ?
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  #75  
Old 07-19-18, 08:57 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
US oil production in 2014 was 8.7mbpd.
US oil production in 2018 is 10.8mbpd.

Looks like the rigs in production are producing more oil.

Oh, Oil production is up btw.
Refining capacity still an issue. All we need are tax incentives to reinvest in it in an effort to increase market share.
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  #76  
Old 07-19-18, 10:12 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is online now
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Thanks to all this shale gas the U.S. is seeing new refining for the first time in 40 years. Coming from foreign investment to boot.

Monaca Shale Cracker (PA) - already underway

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2016...ant-in-monaca/

Belmont County Cracker (OH)

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/inde...lant_clos.html

Both will create roughly 6,000 UNION construction jobs and 600 full time jobs once complete.

Once these are built all kinds of subsidiary businesses will pop up in the form of Plastic and Rubber plants. Tough times for many communities in the Allegheny and Ohio River Valley's will be swinging upward.
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  #77  
Old 07-19-18, 10:21 AM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
Thanks to all this shale gas the U.S. is seeing new refining for the first time in 40 years. Coming from foreign investment to boot.

Monaca Shale Cracker (PA) - already underway

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2016...ant-in-monaca/

Belmont County Cracker (OH)

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/inde...lant_clos.html

Both will create roughly 6,000 UNION construction jobs and 600 full time jobs once complete.

Once these are built all kinds of subsidiary businesses will pop up in the form of Plastic and Rubber plants. Tough times for many communities in the Allegheny and Ohio River Valley's will be swinging upward.
And yet you still hate the Trumpster? He also just signed an EO to increase training for such jobs! Winning!
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  #78  
Old 07-19-18, 10:33 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
US oil production in 2014 was 8.7mbpd.
US oil production in 2018 is 10.8mbpd.

Looks like the rigs in production are producing more oil.

Oh, Oil production is up btw.
No kidding, I am the one that started this thread saying the US is headed to be the no.1 oil producer in the world but oil companies could crank out a lot more. Why no pressure from Trump, maybe because not only do high oil prices benefit oil companies but also Russia and its tin horn dictator Putin.
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  #79  
Old 07-19-18, 10:39 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is online now
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Originally Posted by zeeman View Post
And yet you still hate the Trumpster? He also just signed an EO to increase training for such jobs! Winning!
Hate is a strong word. I think the POTUS really believes he is helping and in many ways he is but if he just would take a different approach I could tolerate it a tad better. His twitter page is embarrassing enough.

Regardless, both of these projects came to fruition under Obama. To be honest I believe it has very little to do with either man and more to do with cheap natural gas.
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  #80  
Old 07-19-18, 05:17 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
No kidding, I am the one that started this thread saying the US is headed to be the no.1 oil producer in the world but oil companies could crank out a lot more. Why no pressure from Trump, maybe because not only do high oil prices benefit oil companies but also Russia and its tin horn dictator Putin.
It's all about balance here. Relatively higher oil prices for short periods of time are needed to generate the income oil companies need to innovate and EXPAND production. As long as the periods of "high" oil prices are around $80 per barrel as opposed to $110 I'm fine with it.

The long term (say next 25 years) trajectory however is clear - production is going up and prices are going down. Also let's not forget that America is becoming an oil exporting behemoth:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...et-to-multiply

Driven by expanding energy development from shale, America “today” is the world’s top producer of oil and gas and an explosion in exports is expected to follow, according to a new report from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

“Today, the United States is the world’s top producer of oil and natural gas. And the future looks just as bright,” according to Karen Alderman Harbert, president of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s Global Energy Institute.

“The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) is forecasting that domestic crude oil production will soon surpass 11 million barrels per day and fluctuate between 11 and 12 million barrels per day out to 2050—a sustained rate 2 million barrels per day higher than the previous U.S. record of 9.6 million barrels per day set in 1970. Natural gas production also shows no sign of slowing down, with EIA projecting a 58 percent increase output by 2050. The United States is poised to become a large exporter of both fuels. Renewable energy is making substantial gains, and energy efficiency also continues to thrive in all sectors of the economy.”



Net we want oil prices low enough so as not to damage economic growth but high enough so we can reap the full benefits of an American oil export boom. Otherwise known as a win/win.
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  #81  
Old 07-19-18, 05:22 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
Hate is a strong word. I think the POTUS really believes he is helping and in many ways he is but if he just would take a different approach I could tolerate it a tad better. His twitter page is embarrassing enough.

Regardless, both of these projects came to fruition under Obama. To be honest I believe it has very little to do with either man and more to do with cheap natural gas.
I disagree. Obama did everything he could to hinder American oil & gas development. From his refusal to okay pipelines to his embrace of the Paris Climate Change accord. The problem for Barack was he didn't have the constitutional power to stop American industry from implementing the R&D innovation they had made in oil & natural gas extraction largely during the GW Bush era.

So tip your hat to Bush, whose administration was oil company friendly, for creating an environment where they were motivated to innovate aggressively.
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  #82  
Old 07-19-18, 06:33 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is online now
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I disagree. Obama did everything he could to hinder American oil & gas development. From his refusal to okay pipelines to his embrace of the Paris Climate Change accord. The problem for Barack was he didn't have the constitutional power to stop American industry from implementing the R&D innovation they had made in oil & natural gas extraction largely during the GW Bush era.

So tip your hat to Bush, whose administration was oil company friendly, for creating an environment where they were motivated to innovate aggressively.
You are exactly right in terms of Bush's push for gas exploration in the states via fracking. Lot's of folks in the region who were upset at the time are singing its praises today and rightfully so.

However, both of these projects came to fruition under Obama's reign which is why I pointed out how presidents often get too much or too less credit for many things that they do.
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  #83  
Old 07-27-18, 06:01 AM
Hammerin'Hank Hammerin'Hank is offline
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The word is that the POTUS is close to pushing for a year round waiver to use E15. I'll believe it when I see it. One thing that it should do is lower the price of oil.......and by in large gas at the pumps. Again, I'll believe it when I see it.
Ethanol haters' heads are about to explode.
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  #84  
Old 07-27-18, 08:24 AM
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I read an article recently in Fortune magazine about the oil boom in the Permian Basin. It appears to be a real catch 22 situation. Economically everyone from the land owners down to the local restaurant and various vendor owners are benefiting and it's helping the US be a big player in the world oil production market. But ecologically it's causing a lot of pain in the area.

I think a good analogy about fracking is like wringing out a sponge. So the oil is being squeezed out of the rock formations which is now causing instability in the land mass that forms the Permian Basin. Large sink holes are forming and they are experiencing earthquake tremors on a regular basis since the increase in fracking oil wells.

We really do need to put more emphasis and investment into alternative energy resources but as long as so many are making lots of money off oil the alternative resources are not going to get the attention they deserve.
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  #85  
Old 07-27-18, 09:43 AM
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Alternative Energy = Yes but Get the Hell out of my Pocket ( ie. my Utility bills show paying for their Subsidies )

and Why aren't we pushing for Natural Gas Fire Air Conditioners ?

"More recently, China, India and South Korea have made natural gas cooling technologies a preferred choice for developing areas". from SoCalGas

I'm assuming you all have made the change to LED lights throughout your homes ?

I have and the savings are Real .... Winning ! ! !

Question for All you Alternative Energy Thumping people. How Do you Measure yourself ?

My Home has the Following ! I've decreased my Carbon Footprint, have You ?
Furnace = 95% 2 Stage Variable - ECM Motor
AC = 17 Seer 2 Stage Variable
Nest Wifi Smart thermostat

Dual Water Meters = Outside & Inside Usage consumption measuring ( I pay Sewage Cost only on what goes down the Drain)

Oh, Wait for it ..... Winning Again ! ! !
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  #86  
Old 07-27-18, 11:23 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
It's all about balance here.......

.........

Net we want oil prices low enough so as not to damage economic growth but high enough so we can reap the full benefits of an American oil export boom. Otherwise known as a win/win.
The tipping point seems to be right around where Alaska starts getting all froggy about wanting to drill in their national parks and talking independence. It’s too expensive to get it out of there when the price is good for most of us, so when we start hearing Sarah saying, “drill baby drill”, I think we’re in trouble overall price-wise.

#keepAlaskaawelfarestate
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  #87  
Old 07-27-18, 11:27 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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And yet you still hate the Trumpster? He also just signed an EO to increase training for such jobs! Winning!
Boom!!
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  #88  
Old 07-27-18, 12:26 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by MoeDude View Post
I read an article recently in Fortune magazine about the oil boom in the Permian Basin. It appears to be a real catch 22 situation. Economically everyone from the land owners down to the local restaurant and various vendor owners are benefiting and it's helping the US be a big player in the world oil production market. But ecologically it's causing a lot of pain in the area.
I drove 220 miles across the Permian Basin. All I remember seeing were rocks, dirt, sun, and pumpjacks.
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  #89  
Old 07-27-18, 12:44 PM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is online now
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Refining capacity still an issue. All we need are tax incentives to reinvest in it in an effort to increase market share.
Well government regulations are a huge hurdle that are difficult to overcome, simply with tax incentives.
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  #90  
Old 07-27-18, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
Hate is a strong word. I think the POTUS really believes he is helping and in many ways he is but if he just would take a different approach I could tolerate it a tad better. His twitter page is embarrassing enough.

Regardless, both of these projects came to fruition under Obama. To be honest I believe it has very little to do with either man and more to do with cheap natural gas.

And the cheap natural gas is the result of private innovation (fracking technology) + republican governors and legislatures in several key states - chiefly Ohio - which allowed fracking to move forward. Had obama and Cuomo et.al. had their way, none of this would have occurred. Thankfully, OH and PA, and WV paved the way for all this. Contrast that to the asinine moratoriums on fracking in NY and MD and other radical-left states, who would rather have fixed income folks pay 6 times the going rate for heat.

There is a CLEAR AND MAJOR difference between the Marxists who were in charge in DC and still are in blue states, and the common sense folks in red states and now in the WH.
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