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  #61  
Old 03-22-17, 11:22 PM
EagleGuy EagleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Like I said we are currently experiencing a "slow motion coup" and are engaged in a "cold" civil war. I think the "tit for tat" argument is to point out a possible spark that could turn a "cold" civil war into a "hot" one. The thing about tit for tat behavior is it rapidly escalates until it's out of control.

But I agree that the fault here lies almost exclusively on the left and their suicidal embrace of the "resistance" against Trump. They are breaking convention and creating a potential for damaging escalation. If it all goes to hell, they own it.
Glad you could read my mind.



My last "shorthand" line mirrors AL's concern, which was much better articulated: Moreover, will it become acceptable practice, especially considering we are not all held to the same standards?

To the line above, I should have added (see HRC).

Originally Posted by 19AL6
What? Tit-for-tat? That is what you are worried about. I am worried about the fact we now seem to have branches in our govt. that are suppose to enforce the laws and now it seems that they are the one's breaking and not enforcing the laws.



Regarding Comey, I may be proven wrong (I hope not for our country's sake), but I still have confidence in him. Patience is a virtue.

BTW, I hope this post makes sense; I'm not always patient when it comes to conveying a thought.
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  #62  
Old 03-23-17, 02:48 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
There are a couple of critical elements of this story that weaken your analogy IMO:

* There are very specific rules regarding how the NSA handles situations where the "Mayor" (aka, an American citizen) walks into the room while they are spying on a foreign nation. It is against the law for the NSA to "unmask" the American citizen let along "arrest" him. In fact Trey Gowdy pointed out that whoever "unmasks" the identity of a US citizen caught in an NSA surveillance faces up to 10 years in prison.

* You could not arrest the Mayor using information you obtained from an NSA surveillance.

* It would have been very easy for the Obama administration to instruct the Justice Department to investigate Trump & his campaign under the guise of investigating suspected Russian interference in our election. Since the "investigation" involves a foreign country the Obama Justice Department could simply solicit the help of the NSA and it's powerful suite of surveillance tools to conduct the actual investigation. There is plausible deniability to go around if the Obama administration & Justice Department were ever found out: "we didn't do anything wrong we were just investigating those nasty Russians messing with our election".

* Now with the Justice Department, FBI & NSA investigating whether the Russians are helping Trump they are free to spy on Trump & his associates. Information is POWER and with the Obama administrations connection to the NSA surveillance of Trump right up to JANUARY 20, 2017, they could gather all sorts of political info to first aid in defeating Trump in the election and then after the election aid the "resistance" in undermining Trump's legitimacy.
I believe your final two points are the crux of this whole thing.

Inadmissible evidence can often be very useful, and can easily be shared face to face. Lots going on below the waterline.

Last edited by cabezadecaballo; 03-23-17 at 07:35 AM.
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  #63  
Old 03-23-17, 08:00 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Here's a nice summary of what's at stake by Roger Simon and why Obama needs to be under investigation:

https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2017...ot-just-trump/

Sure he is "pro Trump" and has an ax to grind but he makes several very strong points that are hard to dispute. His main point:


The facts are what they are.

What appears at this writing is that Trump transition team members and possibly Trump himself had their identities revealed, were “unmasked” in the parlance, while foreign diplomats were being surveilled. The identities of American citizens were not sufficiently “minimized,” as they are required to be by law. This is a crime one would assume would put the perpetrators in prison. So far it hasn’t. More than that, such behavior is a grave threat to a free society, to all of us.

In effect, Trump was wiretapped — if not in the corny, old sense of the word, something very close. Technologically, he was wiretapped, as were several (actually many) others.

A fair amount of this happened not long before Barack Obama suddenly changed the rules regarding raw intelligence, for the first time ever allowing the NSA to share its data with 16 other intelligence agencies, thus making the dissemination of said data (i. e. leaking) many times more likely. That was done on January 17, 2017, just three scant days before Trump’s inauguration. Why did the then president finally decide to make that particular change at that extremely late date, rather than on one of the previous seven years and three hundred fifty-three days of his presidency? You don’t have to be Sherlock Holmes or Watson to smell a rat.



I wonder who will be the first Democrat with the courage to call for an investigation of the Obama administration?

As usual this link comes from Instapundit (https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/) a site that actually covers the news properly.
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  #64  
Old 03-23-17, 08:06 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleGuy View Post
Regarding Comey, I may be proven wrong (I hope not for our country's sake), but I still have confidence in him. Patience is a virtue.

BTW, I hope this post makes sense; I'm not always patient when it comes to conveying a thought.
I hope you're right about Comey. To support your notion is the fact that Comey hasn't been fired yet.

As an aside, prosecutors will often try to throw their targets off by making them believe the investigation is going in an entirely different direction then it actually is.
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  #65  
Old 03-23-17, 07:29 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Oh my, Obama may be extending his French Polynesian vacation:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...urce-says.html

If this is true and it sure sounds like it is, then Obama did spy on Trump and his transition team between his election and inauguration making Watergate look like a preschool party in comparison.

The implications of this are profound.
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  #66  
Old 03-23-17, 08:32 PM
fish82 fish82 is online now
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It'll be interesting to see if the alleged "smoking gun" ends up being real tomorrow.
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  #67  
Old 03-23-17, 10:15 PM
EagleGuy EagleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I hope you're right about Comey. To support your notion is the fact that Comey hasn't been fired yet.

As an aside, prosecutors will often try to throw their targets off by making them believe the investigation is going in an entirely different direction then it actually is.
Yes. Comey is holding his cards close to his vest - as well he should. The truth is what we want - good, bad or mugly.
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  #68  
Old 03-24-17, 02:09 AM
nupanther nupanther is offline
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Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
But it was a gift. I just got married. It was a wedding present from my mother in law. It's in my mother in laws name.
Could watch that movie all day long!
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  #69  
Old 03-24-17, 09:02 AM
19AL63 19AL63 is offline
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I do not know which way this investigation is going to go, but I think it is going to be fun to watch which ever way it go down. D's and R's are you ready to rumble? Right now it looks like the R's just might have a little bit of an advantage.
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