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  #1  
Old 11-17-18, 02:20 AM
Omar Omar is offline
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Lessons from tonight & moving into 2019

Good:

Luebbe has a ton of potential. Needs to work on throwing the ball away under pressure. That comes with experience

TEs and WRs will continue to be a strength

Bad:

The OL play was a let down. Ramsey didn’t have enough faith for them to get 2 yards in 2 downs. That’s not acceptable for an OL with this kind of size and talent.

Back 8 (LBs and Secondary) no speed. No matter what, Elder’s never going to seriously compete until the speed and athleticism on Defense is vastly upgraded. Not sure how any reasonable person can think otherwise.

Not too high on the future of the run game unless Ramsey is the feature back.


The outcome from tonight isn’t surprising. Colerain is a great team, probably state champs. However, Elder has a lot of work to do before they can compete with great teams like this.

Last edited by Omar; 11-17-18 at 05:38 AM.
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Old 11-17-18, 05:57 AM
Omar Omar is offline
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Best guess Lineup:

QB Luebbe

TB Catania/Johnson

Slot/RB/Wildcat Ramsey

WRs Larkins/Nieman/Frommeyer

TE Royer

LT James
LG Smith
C Berger
RG Beckenhaupt
RT Kandra

DE Butler
NT Tolbert
DE Moore

OLB Keyes (could slide to DE)
ILB Tucker
ILB Nichols/Spinney
OLB Perdue

CB Sandhas
CB Thomas
Rover Keller
FS Thaman

I like the Offense, if the OL plays consistently and up to their ability, theyíll be fine. Defense worries me a lot, especially on the DL. No dynamic Pass Rusher like Bono, but Tolbert is a better fit at 3-4 NT than Klingebeck. Outside of Keyes, the LB core is a mystery. But I fear theyíre ceiling isnít any better than this yearís. Probably lower bc none of them are as good as Hofmeyer The Secondary could be vastly improved. Thomas and Keller are great athletes. Theyíre the type of players in the Secondary Elder typically doesnít have. Thomas might be their first CB with a D1 offer in many yrs.

W/o the complete schedule, itís impossible to say for certain. However, my guess is they finish bw 7-3 and 5-5 (Losses to Edís, WW, maybe Moe?) but theyíll still be in position to make a playoff run. Whether or not they can actually compete at the end of the run remains to be seen.
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Old 11-17-18, 09:17 AM
cincyelder cincyelder is offline
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Not bad. Also worried about the D.

Royer and Larkins are the same guy, you can do a lot with that offensively. Seems like Elder forgot about or Royer the second half of the season.

Some other Sophs to keep on the radar:

Miller - Athlete. May read QB tea leaves and end up moving to WR or DB to get on the field. Dont write him off as QB2.

Stemmler. Played FB and LB this year but got hurt in the Moeller JV game. Dressed Varsity all year. Not sure which side of the ball he goes but is a classic football player.

Ott - LB. High energy. Could be a LB star.

Schlachter - Same as Stemmler but a little smaller. Two way JV starter once Stemler got hurt. High motor and driven.

Wandstrat - converted from WR to corner after the season started, maybe week 2? and learned the position on the fly. I would think an off season of preparing to play DB will really help.

Weber - Another early injured two way JV player. RB LB.

Folzenlogan - Played both sides of the line. Big Frame kid.

Neville - Athlete. He beat out Pohlman and Wandstrat who were freshman starters to play that WR spot opposite Nieman.

Willenborg - Came on strong as the season went on at D End earning most of the reps.

None of the above are locks, just pointing out some potential.
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Old 11-17-18, 09:40 AM
SMARTY22 SMARTY22 is offline
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The O Line play all year was to up and down. Definitely don’t think the OLine Coach gets the most out of those guys. Don’t see Elder ever having a Real Featured RB under Ramsey regime anymore. He just doesn’t use the RB enough. Think the Staff considers this yr as a very successful yr so don’t think next yr will bring many changes from the norm.
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Old 11-17-18, 09:54 AM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by SMARTY22 View Post
The O Line play all year was to up and down. Definitely don’t think the OLine Coach gets the most out of those guys. Don’t see Elder ever having a Real Featured RB under Ramsey regime anymore. He just doesn’t use the RB enough. Think the Staff considers this yr as a very successful yr so don’t think next yr will bring many changes from the norm.
It was a succesful season all things considered. However, I’m sure nobody is satisfied at all with how things ended. It’s really out of the staff’s hands on if E will do what it takes to draw in more talent. There’s no changes from the norm that would help unless they brought in 3-5 transfers on the Defense.

Last edited by Omar; 11-17-18 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 11-17-18, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by cincyelder View Post
Not bad. Also worried about the D.

Royer and Larkins are the same guy, you can do a lot with that offensively. Seems like Elder forgot about or Royer the second half of the season.

Some other Sophs to keep on the radar:

Miller - Athlete. May read QB tea leaves and end up moving to WR or DB to get on the field. Dont write him off as QB2.

Stemmler. Played FB and LB this year but got hurt in the Moeller JV game. Dressed Varsity all year. Not sure which side of the ball he goes but is a classic football player.

Ott - LB. High energy. Could be a LB star.

Schlachter - Same as Stemmler but a little smaller. Two way JV starter once Stemler got hurt. High motor and driven.

Wandstrat - converted from WR to corner after the season started, maybe week 2? and learned the position on the fly. I would think an off season of preparing to play DB will really help.

Weber - Another early injured two way JV player. RB LB.

Folzenlogan - Played both sides of the line. Big Frame kid.

Neville - Athlete. He beat out Pohlman and Wandstrat who were freshman starters to play that WR spot opposite Nieman.

Willenborg - Came on strong as the season went on at D End earning most of the reps.

None of the above are locks, just pointing out some potential.
I think you might have some bias towards the current Sophs. I give the JV staff credit for moving kids like Pohlman and Wandatradt. However, at the end of the day, it’s not enough. I’m going to say this respectfully, Elder cannot Win at a high level with any of their classes as they currently stand. Looking at your synopsis, those kids are no different than the group that got smoked last night. They’re the exact same, none of them have the speed or athleticism needed to beat a Colerain, WW, or even LS and Moe.

Last edited by Omar; 11-17-18 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 11-17-18, 10:24 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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I will try to say this with the most amount of optimism possible. It's obvious winning state titles will become much more difficult than it once was as the best athletes concentrate into a few great programs (that's what recruiting has created). The difference in the level of athletic talent in the most important games is glaring.

Are they truly going to be a school open to city-wide inclusion and talent, and will they put real resources behind it, or is their vision to continue to provide opportunities for a very, very small pocket of westside kids?

They say they are open to "anyone who wants to attend Elder", but they don't act that way, and I think it does comes down to opening themselves up to change is so many different areas (inclusion, diversity, coaching philosophy, accountability, etc).

Success will require change, but I don't see alot of new ideas coming to the table as they're stuck in this little pocket of the westside, literally and figuratively. It seems they don't care to change, which honestly I don't understand why.

It's a school that's losing it's identity as "The Elder Way" just isn't all that appealing getting your brains beaten in against teams with loads of talent.
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Old 11-17-18, 10:29 AM
SMARTY22 SMARTY22 is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
It was a succesful season all things considered. However, Iím sure nobody is satisfied at all with how things ended. Itís really out of the staffís hands on if E will do what it takes to draw in more talent. Thereís no changes from the norm that would help unless they brought in 3-5 transfers on the Defense.
Ok, well Elder has NEVER used the Transfer route. The next step is maximizing the performance/talents of the players they have. If the norm continues so will the Results. Get the most talented Transfer available but donít maximize that Talent, what happens next?
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Old 11-17-18, 10:36 AM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
I will try to say this with the most amount of optimism possible. It's obvious winning state titles will become much more difficult than it once was as the best athletes concentrate into a few great programs (that's what recruiting has created). The difference in the level of athletic talent in the most important games is glaring.

Are they truly going to be a school open to city-wide inclusion and talent, and will they put real resources behind it, or is their vision to continue to provide opportunities for a very, very small pocket of westside kids?

They say they are open to "anyone who wants to attend Elder", but they don't act that way, and I think it does comes down to opening themselves up to change is so many different areas (inclusion, diversity, coaching philosophy, accountability, etc).

Success will require change, but I don't see alot of new ideas coming to the table as they're stuck in this little pocket of the westside, literally and figuratively. It seems they don't care to change, which honestly I don't understand why.
This is absolutely correct. Itís also why I said much of the talent level is out of the staffís control. Almost every story this Yr, they talked about how the kids grew up wanting to play for Elder. Thatís fine for those puff newspaper pieces, but the reality is it doesnít matter if they grew up wanting to play for Elder or not. When Elder finally gets in the talent, then we can take a harder look at coaching, playcalling, etc.
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Old 11-17-18, 10:40 AM
Omar Omar is offline
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Ok, well Elder has NEVER used the Transfer route. The next step is maximizing the performance/talents of the players they have. If the norm continues so will the Results. Get the most talented Transfer available but donít maximize that Talent, what happens next?
That was my point. I think theyíre maxing the talent they have, and the fact the talent is at a max is the issue. Until theyíve got D1 LBs and DBs, the Defense will continue to be exploited for its lack of speed and athleticism. Not to be so negative, but this will probably happen again next Yr. It might not be vs Colerain, maybe itís Moe, Edís, Wayne, or Pick Central. Regardless, you get the idea.
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Old 11-17-18, 10:46 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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I cringe when I constantly hear coaches and players on the news talk about "It's been a dream of mine since I was 8 years old to play on this field". Yes, that is how they've build their program, but that thinking doesn't fly anymore.

People outside of the westside see that and immediately think that their kid will have zero opportunity playing there because there are 500 westside kids that already have deep connections to the program. It has to stop being a selling point. While certainly not their intention, it reeks of bias and favoritism. This is 100% how outsiders view the sports programs at Elder (honestly, it's how alot of westsiders view it as well). They're not completely off - there's some truth in there.

The feeling is there is opportunity for westside kids and not everyone. So many people also claim that Elder has so many "2 and 3 sport athletes", not realizing that people outside are thinking "well that sucks, where's the opportunity there for my kid".

Prospective parents, especially those on the outside of the bubble, have to see opportunity for the kid to even consider it. They don't. Real or imagined, it's a barrier, and honestly, a blind spot for Elder. Most don't think this is an issue, or at a minimum, admit it.

Last edited by OldSchoolPanther; 11-17-18 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 11-17-18, 11:15 AM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
I cringe when I constantly hear coaches and players on the news talk about "It's been a dream of mine since I was 8 years old to play on this field". Yes, that is how they've build their program, but that thinking doesn't fly anymore.

People outside of the westside see that and immediately think that their kid will have zero opportunity playing there because there are 500 westside kids that already have deep connections to the program. It has to stop being a selling point. While certainly not their intention, it reeks of bias and favoritism. This is 100% how outsiders view the sports programs at Elder (honestly, it's how alot of westsiders view it as well). They're not completely off - there's some truth in there.

The feeling is there is opportunity for certain kids and not everyone. So many people also claim that Elder has so many "2 and 3 sport athletes", not realizing that people outside are thinking "well that sucks, where's the opportunity there for my kid".

Prospective parents, especially those on the outside of the bubble, have to see opportunity for the kid to even consider it. They don't. Real or imagined, it's a barrier, and honestly, a blind spot for Elder. Most don't think this is an issue, or at a minimum, admit it.
Iím sure itís not meant to sound exclusionary, but it definitely comes off that way. And whether or not what youíre saying is true, it further hammers in the perception that outsiders arenít welcome.
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Old 11-17-18, 11:47 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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No doubt...as others have said, it's the best and worst of Elder all at once.

Last edited by OldSchoolPanther; 11-17-18 at 12:32 PM.
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  #14  
Old 11-17-18, 01:58 PM
cincyelder cincyelder is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
I think you might have some bias towards the current Sophs. I give the JV staff credit for moving kids like Pohlman and Wandatradt. However, at the end of the day, it’s not enough. I’m going to say this respectfully, Elder cannot Win at a high level with any of their classes as they currently stand. Looking at your synopsis, those kids are no different than the group that got smoked last night. They’re the exact same, none of them have the speed or athleticism needed to beat a Colerain, WW, or even LS and Moe.
I believe I used the words "keep on the radar" and "None of the above are locks, just pointing out some potential.". Does not mean Im biased for this class. It means I am pointing out other JV guys that showed some potential that could play as Juniors.

I'm not nearly as biased for this class as many on here have been biased against this class. The rush to fast forward to the 2022s has been eye roll worthy.

Just participating in the discussion. My bad.
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Old 11-17-18, 02:27 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by cincyelder View Post
I believe I used the words "keep on the radar" and "None of the above are locks, just pointing out some potential.". Does not mean Im biased for this class. It means I am pointing out other JV guys that showed some potential that could play as Juniors.

I'm not nearly as biased for this class as many on here have been biased against this class. The rush to fast forward to the 2022s has been eye roll worthy.

Just participating in the discussion. My bad.
I’ve seen them, they’re no better or worse than what they ran out there last night. Do I have to keep repeating myself? Speed and athleticism on Defense are what win games,
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Old 11-17-18, 02:38 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Originally Posted by cincyelder View Post
The rush to fast forward to the 2022s has been eye roll worthy.
You ain't kiddin. It's the same broken record over and over.

Part of the "opportunity" problem. The focus on the top 4-5 athletes in a grade while basically ignoring the rest, or not realizing that a broad-based group of more athletes like the sophomore class has is a much better talent pool for development.
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Old 11-17-18, 02:42 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
Iíve seen them, theyíre no better or worse than what they ran out there last night. Do I have to keep repeating myself? Speed and athleticism on Defense are what win games,
The point of his post is that there seems to be a ton of worthy sophomores that can develop into very good players if given the opportunity and development time from the coaches. None have the "big name", so everyone just assumes they can't play.

It's really annoying. He's absolutely right that the focus will be on these up and coming freshman and some of these sophomores will be passed up without ever getting the opportunity to prove their worth.
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Old 11-17-18, 02:43 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
You ain't kiddin.

Part of the "opportunity" problem. The focus on the top 4-5 athletes in a grade while basically ignoring the rest, or not realizing that a broad-based group of more athletes like the sophomore class has is a much better talent pool for development.
Jesus, shut up. Youíre so clueless at times. The Sophs have a good OL and TEs/WRs, thatís it. Everyone else is a clone of what they already have. The Frosh have good individual talent, and at least some athletes in the Secondary.
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Old 11-17-18, 02:44 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
The point of his post is that there seems to be a ton of worthy sophomores that can develop into very good players if given the opportunity and development time from the coaches. None have the "big name", so everyone just assumes they can't play.

It's really annoying. He's absolutely right that the focus will be on these up and coming freshman and some of these sophomores will be passed up without ever getting the opportunity to prove their worth.
Iíve seen them play, have you? Theyíre not any better than every other faceless Elder player theyíve run out the last decade.
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Old 11-17-18, 02:44 PM
Panther in 45251 Panther in 45251 is offline
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Ok, well Elder has NEVER used the Transfer route. The next step is maximizing the performance/talents of the players they have. If the norm continues so will the Results. Get the most talented Transfer available but donít maximize that Talent, what happens next?
I believe Ginn and Kelsey transferred from Roger Bacon
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Old 11-17-18, 02:47 PM
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I believe Ginn and Kelsey transferred from Roger Bacon
You know what he meant... in general, Elder doesnít build a team off transfers. Theyíve had a few, but itís rare.
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Old 11-17-18, 02:47 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Iíve seen them play, have you? Theyíre not any better than every other faceless Elder player theyíve run out the last decade.
But they have far more depth. He just listed a long list of potential that can be developed into good players.

The problem is, this isn't their philosophy. They don't really develop their depth. They focus on the 4-5 top kids in each grade. It's not enough.
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Old 11-17-18, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
But they have far more depth. He just listed a long list of potential that can be developed into good players.

The problem is, this isn't their philosophy. They don't really develop their depth. They focus on the 4-5 top kids in each grade. It's not enough.
Those arenít the type of players you beat Colerain with, itís high quality talent and athletes. This Sr class had depth, it didnít matter last night.
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Old 11-17-18, 02:53 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Those arenít the type of players you beat Colerain with, itís high quality talent and athletes. This Sr class had depth, it didnít matter last night.
It absolutely is if you have enough of them.

The Sr class had depth? No, certain seniors had experience because they've been playing varsity football for 3 years. That was huge for their success this year.

I believe it was you who crowned this Sr group as state champs in multiple sports. How did that work out putting all your marbles into 4-5 kids?
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Old 11-17-18, 02:57 PM
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It absolutely is if you have enough of them.

The Sr class had depth? No, certain seniors had experience because they've been playing varsity football for 3 years. That was huge for their success this year.

I believe it was you who crowned this Sr group as state champs in multiple sports. How did that work out putting all your marbles into 4-5 kids?
No, itís not. They donít have the speed or athleticism. And I donít believe I ever crowned them state champs. I said I thought they might be capable of winning one, that didnít pan out.
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Old 11-17-18, 03:04 PM
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Hereís all you need to know:

1. This is a special Colerain team. They donít come around too often.

2. Elder needs better athletes on Defense

3. Elder needs a real Power Running Back.

Everything else is superfluous.
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Old 11-17-18, 03:04 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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No, itís not. They donít have the speed or athleticism. And I donít believe I ever crowned them state champs. I said I thought they might be capable of winning one, that didnít pan out.
Not only did it not pan out, they weren't even in the same stratosphere as potential state champion contenders in anything.

That doesn't change your thinking even a little? That doesn't at least push yourself to question some things about how talent is evaluated, selected, and developed at Elder?

C'mon man.
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Old 11-17-18, 03:14 PM
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Not only did it not pan out, they weren't even in the same stratosphere as potential state champion contenders in anything.

That doesn't change your thinking even a little? That doesn't at least push yourself to question some things about how talent is evaluated, selected, and developed at Elder?

C'mon man.
I’m sure if I had seen this Colerain Sr Class as a Freshman, I would’ve recognized how much better they were than Elder.

My thinking has not and will never change. Elder needs better athletes, and they need those athletes on Defense. I do think there is a place for kids who could be develop into 1 or 2 yr starters, but they aren’t helping you beat a juggernaut without high quality talent.
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Old 11-17-18, 04:36 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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I’m sure if I had seen this Colerain Sr Class as a Freshman, I would’ve recognized how much better they were than Elder.
No you wouldn't have. There was no talking you out of how good that class was going to be and how it would be completely unacceptable for them to not get their share of success.

And here we are. Not even close to any hardware, in any sport.

They were the greatest thing since sliced bread in your eyes 4 years ago. Now, they are completely void of talent and not even close to the athletes of other schools in your eyes.

Last edited by OldSchoolPanther; 11-17-18 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 11-17-18, 04:50 PM
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No you wouldn't have. There was no talking you out of how good that class was going to be and how it would be completely unacceptable for them to not get their share of success.

And here we are. Not even close to any hardware, in any sport.

They were the greatest thing since sliced bread in your eyes 4 years ago. Now, they are completely void of talent and not even close to the athletes of other schools in your eyes.
You’re making stuff up again. They were excellent as Freshmen, but even back they had a tight game with Moeller. And I said the talent level isn’t there to beat elite teams. I don’t think any of the GCL programs have the talent to field a team anywhere close to Colerain.
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