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  #31  
Old 11-12-18, 10:14 AM
ELDERfbfan ELDERfbfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar View Post
I want them to win more than anything, but the best realistic outcome is them not getting a running clock hung on them. We see the same story over and over, but some of you just ignore it. The Defense has played very well, but they donít have the speed or athleticism in the LB Core or Secondary to beat a Colerain or WW. Until they stop putting all of their hopes on Feeder kids, a non blowout loss in the Regional Final is their ceiling. Talent means more than heart.
Good thing we had all those "non-Feeder" kids on the 02 and 03 teams that I was apart of to help us win back then, don't know what we would of done relying on just normal feeder kids geez ..I'm sure the same can be said the the 08 , 09 years as well...Pretty sure Colerain has had the same speed and athletes then as they do now but you're obviously right Elder just needs more non-feeders to field a team to win anymore....
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  #32  
Old 11-12-18, 10:23 AM
ELDERfbfan ELDERfbfan is offline
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I am not against Elder trying to get more non-feeder kids I just dont fall to your narrative that in order for Elder to compete they NEED to have them. I say the more the merrier but it's not like Elder hasn't won in the past without non-feeder kids.
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  #33  
Old 11-12-18, 10:26 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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It's more about getting more talent in general than focusing on just non-feeder talent. It's no surprise athletic success has gone down as enrollment has decreased. They need more kids.
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  #34  
Old 11-12-18, 10:34 AM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by ELDERfbfan View Post
Good thing we had all those "non-Feeder" kids on the 02 and 03 teams that I was apart of to help us win back then, don't know what we would of done relying on just normal feeder kids geez ..I'm sure the same can be said the the 08 , 09 years as well...Pretty sure Colerain has had the same speed and athletes then as they do now but you're obviously right Elder just needs more non-feeders to field a team to win anymore....
The Ď08 and Ď09 teams had important non feeders. And the game is totally difft than it was in Ď02 and Ď03. Iíve said it a billion times, the game is more spread out and more reliant on speed. Also, the other Catholic schools arenít using only feeders anymore, thatís why Elder fell so far behind.
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  #35  
Old 11-12-18, 10:51 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
The question is how do they avoid getting knocked out early? The Ď15 game was over in the first 5 minutes. IMO, Elder has to score first to build up that confidence. If they get behind early and start to press, thatís going compound with more mistakes.
Well not letting them score on the first play of the game like they did in '15 would go a long way in helping them not get knocked out early.
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  #36  
Old 11-12-18, 11:10 AM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Well not letting them score on the first play of the game like they did in '15 would go a long way in helping them not get knocked out early.
As would not fumbling the first kick off. E was down 14-0 before the Offense even touched the ball.
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  #37  
Old 11-12-18, 11:11 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Defensively, part of the reason X does so well against Colerain and the option is due to them slanting and angling the DL. It brings a little hesitation and confusion to the OL on who to chase and when to get to the next level. Elder would be wise to try more of that this week.
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  #38  
Old 11-12-18, 11:15 AM
ELDERfbfan ELDERfbfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar View Post
The Ď08 and Ď09 teams had important non feeders. And the game is totally difft than it was in Ď02 and Ď03. Iíve said it a billion times, the game is more spread out and more reliant on speed. Also, the other Catholic schools arenít using only feeders anymore, thatís why Elder fell so far behind.

You mean St.X LaSalle and Moeller, who Elder beat this year? Scores this year 51-26, 13-10, (21-24(L), 35-0 (W)) respectively, So much for the non-feeder advantage; really put Elder football behind the 8 ball so to speak ....HS sports in general, football specifically is more about match ups and how well you are coached. Speed and athleticism is a plus but there have been team that Elder has played where the other team had better athletes but they still found a way to win and it wasn't because they got some big name recruit outside of the traditional feeders. You can't point to just one reason why a program is successful or not and often you try to make the point that it is because Elder fails to reach out to the "non-feeder" kids. This may be one aspect but not the only reason. Like I said I welcome anyone who wants to go to Elder but to make that the stand alone point as to why they can't win this week is a weak point at best.
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  #39  
Old 11-12-18, 11:18 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
As would not fumbling the first kick off. E was down 14-0 before the Offense even touched the ball.
Man that was a real nice return by Oswald too - would have given E the ball near the 50. Almost forgot about that.
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  #40  
Old 11-12-18, 11:22 AM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by ELDERfbfan View Post
You mean St.X LaSalle and Moeller, who Elder beat this year? Scores this year 51-26, 13-10, (21-24(L), 35-0 (W)) respectively, So much for the non-feeder advantage; really put Elder football behind the 8 ball so to speak ....HS sports in general, football specifically is more about match ups and how well you are coached. Speed and athleticism is a plus but there have been team that Elder has played where the other team had better athletes but they still found a way to win and it wasn't because they got some big name recruit outside of the traditional feeders. You can't point to just one reason why a program is successful or not and often you try to make the point that it is because Elder fails to reach out to the "non-feeder" kids. This may be one aspect but not the only reason. Like I said I welcome anyone who wants to go to Elder but to make that the stand alone point as to why they can't win this week is a weak point at best.
I think theyíll lose this week bc they donít have enough speed on Defense. The Feeder system doesnít produce the type of athletes they need to beat teams with speed like Colerain or WW. And yes, they beat the other GCL schools this Yr. It was the first time that happened since 2008.

Regardless of what happens Friday, it has been a succesful season, but donít let this fool you into thinking everything is ok. Thereís a lot of work still to go before they become realistic Title contenders.
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  #41  
Old 11-12-18, 11:24 AM
HTFF HTFF is offline
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Have to go in at halftime with it still being a game. If Colerain has to play starters in 4th quarter thatís a positive for elder
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  #42  
Old 11-12-18, 11:26 AM
CincyHSFootballFan CincyHSFootballFan is offline
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So how will Elder get the chains going and have long sustained drives? I think they have to pass to set up the run. The issue is Colerain is going to be biting on all those short out routes and ready for the short passing game, just waiting to pick off Luebbe. I think they need to roll Luebbe out and let him make plays either with his feet or force the DB's to leave their man and come up to get him and pass it over them. I just don't see Elder getting a run game going, maybe a few big runs but otherwise Luebbe will have to do it all with his arm and legs outside the pocket.

I do think Luebbe, if he can get around the spy Colerain will undoubtedly have on him, could force Colerain to play more zone defense than they would like too in order to keep Luebbe from running every play or beating their man when defenders come up to make a tackle. If Colerain goes zone it just comes down to executing the plays to hit receivers in those windows.
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  #43  
Old 11-12-18, 11:44 AM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by CincyHSFootballFan View Post
So how will Elder get the chains going and have long sustained drives? I think they have to pass to set up the run. The issue is Colerain is going to be biting on all those short out routes and ready for the short passing game, just waiting to pick off Luebbe. I think they need to roll Luebbe out and let him make plays either with his feet or force the DB's to leave their man and come up to get him and pass it over them. I just don't see Elder getting a run game going, maybe a few big runs but otherwise Luebbe will have to do it all with his arm and legs outside the pocket.

I do think Luebbe, if he can get around the spy Colerain will undoubtedly have on him, could force Colerain to play more zone defense than they would like too in order to keep Luebbe from running every play or beating their man when defenders come up to make a tackle. If Colerain goes zone it just comes down to executing the plays to hit receivers in those windows.
I donít think thereís anyway Colerain plays Zone. Theyíre looking at the WW tapes thinking their DBs can press and disrupt the timing routes too. Thatís why Royer is so important, thereís no S or LB that can bump him off his route.
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  #44  
Old 11-12-18, 11:45 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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It helps if they actually throw it to Royer.

How many catches and targets does he have the last 6 weeks? He seems to be ignored by his QBs.
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  #45  
Old 11-12-18, 12:01 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
It helps if they actually throw it to Royer.

How many catches and targets does he have the last 6 weeks? He seems to be ignored by his QBs.
Iím not going to say for certain, but it wouldnít shock me if the TE was often the 3rd or even 4th read in the Progression. Outside of Rudolph, the TEs never seem to get a lot of targets. That has to change this week, heís the only matchup advantage Elder has.
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  #46  
Old 11-12-18, 12:11 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Would like to see them go back to the play action pass to Royer across the middle that they ran multiple times against X - including one for a TD. If they're going to play Cover 0 like Winton Woods did, the middle of the field will be open. Royer would just need to basically box out his man for the ball.
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  #47  
Old 11-12-18, 12:14 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Noticed that Elder wore their road whites on Friday against East and were designated the away team since they were on the bottom of the bracket - but they were on the home bench/stands. If Elder is able to get a solid number of pre-sale tickets what are the odds they get the home side again?
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  #48  
Old 11-12-18, 12:15 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Would like to see them go back to the play action pass to Royer across the middle that they ran multiple times against X - including one for a TD. If they're going to play Cover 0 like Winton Woods did, the middle of the field will be open. Royer would just need to basically box out his man for the ball.
Yep. More Drag, crosses, stick routes where he can use his size to just shield DBs from the ball. Didn’t they try the Shovel Pass last week? I hadn’t seen them run that play for a while, normally it catches Defenses off balance like a Screen Pass, but I think they had some issues with the timing.
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  #49  
Old 11-12-18, 12:21 PM
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On STs, if Elder isnít certain they can put the ball in the endzone, squib it. Donít give Colerain a chance. Even East was able to get a decent kickoff return. IDK why the KO Team struggles, but at this point, you have to cut your losses and avoid giving up the big return.
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  #50  
Old 11-12-18, 01:36 PM
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Fascinating thoughts and conversation fellas.

Keep it up.

-CardinalsFan
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  #51  
Old 11-12-18, 01:41 PM
SMARTY22 SMARTY22 is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
The question is how do they avoid getting knocked out early? The Ď15 game was over in the first 5 minutes. IMO, Elder has to score first to build up that confidence. If they get behind early and start to press, thatís going compound with more mistakes.
Donít give up big TD Plays to the Colerain Offense,Defense or Special Teams. I actually think stopping the Colerain O first possession would be just as big as scoring first possession for Elder. You know depending which comes first. Either or would give Elder more confidence, I think. Just me, but if Elder is out of it by halftime (bunch have been this year vs C) I would let some of the younger guys get some Regional Final field time. Look at thread on main board, someone posted Colerain Halftime Overall Score. Itís kind of mind boggling to say the least.
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  #52  
Old 11-12-18, 01:42 PM
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Fascinating thoughts and conversation fellas.

Keep it up.

-CardinalsFan
I canít tell if this is sarcastic.
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  #53  
Old 11-12-18, 01:46 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by SMARTY22 View Post
Donít give up big TD Plays to the Colerain Offense,Defense or Special Teams. I actually think stopping the Colerain O first possession would be just as big as scoring first possession for Elder. You know depending which comes first. Either or would give Elder more confidence, I think. Just me, but if Elder is out of it by halftime (bunch have been this year vs C) I would let some of the younger guys get some Regional Final field time. Look at thread on main board, someone posted Colerain Halftime Overall Score. Itís kind of mind boggling to say the least.
As much as I think Colerain will win easily, I canít see it being that large of a blowout where the starters are pulled at half.

You are correct about stopping Colerain on the first possession, that would be massive for the Elder Defensesí confidence. Iím sure many of the players remember the game from 3 yrs ago and how it felt over after that first possession. They donít want the same thing to happen.
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  #54  
Old 11-12-18, 01:47 PM
scotty99 scotty99 is offline
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E definitely needs to start utilizing the TE's more often, especially with the D1 talent we have at that position. FYI Royer was offered by Boston College the other day.
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  #55  
Old 11-12-18, 01:52 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by CincyHSFootballFan View Post
So how will Elder get the chains going and have long sustained drives? I think they have to pass to set up the run. The issue is Colerain is going to be biting on all those short out routes and ready for the short passing game, just waiting to pick off Luebbe. I think they need to roll Luebbe out and let him make plays either with his feet or force the DB's to leave their man and come up to get him and pass it over them. I just don't see Elder getting a run game going, maybe a few big runs but otherwise Luebbe will have to do it all with his arm and legs outside the pocket.

I do think Luebbe, if he can get around the spy Colerain will undoubtedly have on him, could force Colerain to play more zone defense than they would like too in order to keep Luebbe from running every play or beating their man when defenders come up to make a tackle. If Colerain goes zone it just comes down to executing the plays to hit receivers in those windows.
First down is huge for both teams, but even more for Elder. Theyíre the team that needs to eat up clock and keep the other offense off the field. Getting into 3rd and Longs is a killer.
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  #56  
Old 11-12-18, 01:55 PM
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I canít tell if this is sarcastic.
I assure you, it's not.

One of the top 10 most passionate fan bases in all of Ohio, regardless of division. I always like hearing the thoughts and opinions of the Elder faithful. Really wish these two teams would play more often. Just not in the "cards", I guess.

-CardinalsFan
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  #57  
Old 11-12-18, 01:55 PM
SMARTY22 SMARTY22 is offline
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I can’t tell if this is sarcastic.
Has to be some truth to it with as many running clock games as they have had. Omar you going to have a b!itchboy meltdown if E gets crushed?
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  #58  
Old 11-12-18, 02:09 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by CardinalsFan View Post
I assure you, it's not.

One of the top 10 most passionate fan bases in all of Ohio, regardless of division. I always like hearing the thoughts and opinions of the Elder faithful. Really wish these two teams would play more often. Just not in the "cards", I guess.

-CardinalsFan
As busy this board as been probably since the last time these two teams faced off. The main football board already has 4 pages of posts and it's only Monday. Hopefully nice weather and a packed house on Friday.
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  #59  
Old 11-12-18, 02:21 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Has to be some truth to it with as many running clock games as they have had. Omar you going to have a b!itchboy meltdown if E gets crushed?
I just said regardless of the outcome on Friday, itís been a succesful season.
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  #60  
Old 11-12-18, 02:32 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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And I don't think anyone will be surprised if E gets crushed (Omar included)

This squad should have won GCL, especially with how down Region 4 is this year (outside of Colerain). Other than that, Regional Final is probably where this team should have been (so yes, it's successful).

Anything above this is gravy.
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