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  #31  
Old 10-16-18, 11:18 PM
HTFF HTFF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Explain to me how Trump or W/Bush/Reagan reduced the deficit.
On January 20, 2009, when he was sworn in, the debt was $10.626 trillion. On January 20, 2017, when he left, it was $19.947 trillion.
OUCH
In 8 years that’s almost as much as everyone before him!
Thank God for term limits and Hillary’s embarrassing defeat!!!
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  #32  
Old 10-17-18, 12:13 AM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Explain to me how Trump or W/Bush/Reagan reduced the deficit.
They didn't. But neither did Obama so why are you pretending to care all of the sudden?
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  #33  
Old 10-17-18, 06:01 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
What that fool said was in fact totally false and you were dumb enough to cosign it. Citing CBO figures,The tax bill is producing about $400 billion worth of extra growth, with about half of that, $200 billion, coming from the corporate side. But the corporate cuts cost about $600 billion meaning that the corporate tax cuts are paying about a third of their cost.They are not even close to paying for themselves , like it or not those are the facts and they can't be disputed
You gotta love Liberal math.
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  #34  
Old 10-17-18, 06:15 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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I figured it out. You just need to flip the chart over...then the taxes appear to pay for themselves.
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  #35  
Old 10-17-18, 07:18 AM
fish82 fish82 is offline
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Happy and goldenshower appear prepared to die on this hill.
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  #36  
Old 10-17-18, 07:37 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
Social security, Medicare, and Medicaid are all mandates expenses.
Social Security and Medicare are based on a subscription model - people pay specific taxes during their working lives and the government repays them. I would give mine up if the government returned my money with an appropriate return on that investment. Like many of the government pensions, politicians did not invest the money and build a reserve to pay out the benefits that were promised they spent the money on other programs to buy votes.

Medicaid, is NOT the same. It could actually be changed at any time, I'd honestly like to see the feds walk away from it and turn control and finance over to the individual states. Let them decide how best to provide benefits to their constituents and have local jurisdiction over the benefits.
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  #37  
Old 10-17-18, 07:39 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Which is bigger 2.985T or 2.966T?

The tax cuts have generated more federal revenue, albeit by a slim margin. Those same tax cuts have increased worker take home pay, spurred wages higher especially for the lowest quintile of earners and generated job growth equating to extremely low unemployment especially among minorities. Those same tax cuts have spurred record highs in the stock market putting more money in workers 401K's and retirement funds. They have also increased Social Security contributions.

Tax cuts work.

Federal spending is a whole other topic.
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  #38  
Old 10-17-18, 07:46 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
What that fool said was in fact totally false and you were dumb enough to cosign it. Citing CBO figures,The tax bill is producing about $400 billion worth of extra growth, with about half of that, $200 billion, coming from the corporate side. But the corporate cuts cost about $600 billion meaning that the corporate tax cuts are paying about a third of their cost.They are not even close to paying for themselves , like it or not those are the facts and they can't be disputed
To be honest, the government should stop taxing businesses. Businesses are there for the benefit of the owners, if businesses stopped paying taxes we could end the special provision for dividends and tax them as regular income for their recipients.
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  #39  
Old 10-17-18, 07:47 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
They didn't. But neither did Obama so why are you pretending to care all of the sudden?
Actually, Clinton didn't lower the debt either.
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  #40  
Old 10-17-18, 09:10 AM
19AL63 19AL63 is offline
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I was listening to the enemy last night MSNBC and they had a person on there that was saying how bad the R's are and how the tax cuts are increasing the nation debt and how hard it was going to be to pay even the interest because of it rising. Then he mentioned the Presidents that have lowered it and Obama made the list. I am not kidding I almost lost it. There I was swearing at the guy on TV and calling him a liar and my wife wanted to know what I was so unset about and she recomended I change the channel before I have that stroke some people say I am having or had.
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  #41  
Old 10-17-18, 09:23 AM
goldentornado goldentornado is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
You gotta love Liberal math.
it appears in conservative the math there is no subtraction
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  #42  
Old 10-17-18, 09:33 AM
goldentornado goldentornado is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy Hitter 1 View Post
You said the tax cuts are producing an extra 400 billion. So that means the government took in what the would normally take in plus an extra 400 billion.
So even with taking in less on the corporate side the government is up an extra 400 billion.
i guess you have not figured out how to subtract the 600 billion cost of the cuts from 400 billion.
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  #43  
Old 10-17-18, 09:34 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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As Mark Twain said, “Figures don’t lie, but liars figure.” in an absolute sense irs taxes collected went up for fy 2017. however, the rate of increase slowed fy 2017 to fy 2016 as compared to fy 2016 to fy 2015. Spending went up and the deficit increased at a larger rate than Obama or others mentioned above.

fy 2015 3.1 trillion
fy 2016 3.267 trillion +1.67 trillion more
fy 2017 3.4 trillion +1.33 trillion more

as the numbers show, the rate of increase declined year to year. and maybe more troubling the actual amount of increased taxes collected declined year to year (1.67 trillion increase 2016 to 2015 as compared to 1.33 trillion increase 2016 to 2017). not a good trend. AND this in a year of tax stimulus (2017). one would think the collection of tax revenue would skyrocket year to year.
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  #44  
Old 10-17-18, 10:39 AM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
Social Security and Medicare are based on a subscription model - people pay specific taxes during their working lives and the government repays them. I would give mine up if the government returned my money with an appropriate return on that investment. Like many of the government pensions, politicians did not invest the money and build a reserve to pay out the benefits that were promised they spent the money on other programs to buy votes.

Medicaid, is NOT the same. It could actually be changed at any time, I'd honestly like to see the feds walk away from it and turn control and finance over to the individual states. Let them decide how best to provide benefits to their constituents and have local jurisdiction over the benefits.
I'm just saying that's how the libs try and split hairs when it comes to spending. The military is the largest portion of discretionary spending, but considering what falls under that caregory, it's not really surprising. If you look at gross spending, without lumping things into categories it presents a different picture.

Medicaid should be run at the state level. But then you would require the states to fund it which would move numbers around to the point that people in some states may see higher taxes.
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  #45  
Old 10-17-18, 10:40 AM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
it appears in conservative the math there is no subtraction
Math and English. Must be that liberal college education.
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  #46  
Old 10-17-18, 10:48 AM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
it appears in conservative the math there is no subtraction
Republican probably. We conservatives would love to be able to cut government spending. The funny part is liberals in here acting as if they care about shrinking the government.
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  #47  
Old 10-17-18, 11:17 AM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
As Mark Twain said, “Figures don’t lie, but liars figure.” in an absolute sense irs taxes collected went up for fy 2017. however, the rate of increase slowed fy 2017 to fy 2016 as compared to fy 2016 to fy 2015. Spending went up and the deficit increased at a larger rate than Obama or others mentioned above.

fy 2015 3.1 trillion
fy 2016 3.267 trillion +1.67 trillion more
fy 2017 3.4 trillion +1.33 trillion more

as the numbers show, the rate of increase declined year to year. and maybe more troubling the actual amount of increased taxes collected declined year to year (1.67 trillion increase 2016 to 2015 as compared to 1.33 trillion increase 2016 to 2017). not a good trend. AND this in a year of tax stimulus (2017). one would think the collection of tax revenue would skyrocket year to year.
I would fully expect less increase in the rate of government spending in an election year. So no surprise 2017 spent more than 2016 as compared to 2015. As well, you have a new administration with new projects to fund so spending will likely increase.

Both sides want to SPEND OURSELVES INTO PROSPERITY.
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  #48  
Old 10-17-18, 11:30 AM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
As Mark Twain said, “Figures don’t lie, but liars figure.” in an absolute sense irs taxes collected went up for fy 2017. however, the rate of increase slowed fy 2017 to fy 2016 as compared to fy 2016 to fy 2015. Spending went up and the deficit increased at a larger rate than Obama or others mentioned above.

fy 2015 3.1 trillion
fy 2016 3.267 trillion +1.67 trillion more
fy 2017 3.4 trillion +1.33 trillion more

as the numbers show, the rate of increase declined year to year. and maybe more troubling the actual amount of increased taxes collected declined year to year (1.67 trillion increase 2016 to 2015 as compared to 1.33 trillion increase 2016 to 2017). not a good trend. AND this in a year of tax stimulus (2017). one would think the collection of tax revenue would skyrocket year to year.
8 years of Bush, debt doubled.
8 years of Obama, debt doubled.

Using rule of 72 that is an average of 9% increase in debt per year.

Now as interest rates increase and taxes collected slows relative to the increase in borrowing, who will step forward and eventually make forced cuts in spending? It has to happen, or we have to hit a new cash cow. History says nearly every government first tries to inflate their way out by expanding the cash supply. That seems to almost always fail.

Our latest example is Greece and their reconstruction which I don't hear much about anymore. Guess life went on and it is what it is.
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  #49  
Old 10-17-18, 12:39 PM
Qcity Qcity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
I figured it out. You just need to flip the chart over...then the taxes appear to pay for themselves.
The blatant lie from the left: tax cuts have to be paid for. LOFL

There is no such thing as paying for tax cuts. It is OUR money, we are keeping more of it; deal with it.

Government needs to become smaller, and far, far less intrusive into our lives. Nearly every problem would disappear if we got government out of the way.
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  #50  
Old 10-17-18, 12:43 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qcity View Post
The blatant lie from the left: tax cuts have to be paid for. LOFL

There is no such thing as paying for tax cuts. It is OUR money, we are keeping more of it; deal with it.

Government needs to become smaller, and far, far less intrusive into our lives. Nearly every problem would disappear if we got government out of the way.
Then have the balls to cut services and or the budget or don't about debt/deficit in the off years. Trumps base loves medicaid/medicare/SS at the individual level.
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  #51  
Old 10-17-18, 12:48 PM
warriorblue warriorblue is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
You gotta love Liberal math.
Washington needs an overhaul period. You guys want to blame liberals? Its both sides but the Right is much worse.
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  #52  
Old 10-17-18, 12:55 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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CHS is will to donate his Medicare and SS to the cause.
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  #53  
Old 10-17-18, 01:30 PM
Heavy Hitter 1 Heavy Hitter 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
i guess you have not figured out how to subtract the 600 billion cost of the cuts from 400 billion.
I did do the math based on what you said. You said CBO said the tax bill produced an extra 400 billion growth. Based on what you said, there was a amount that was produced already (pretax cuts). So that means an additional 400 billion was collected above the original amount.
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  #54  
Old 10-17-18, 01:31 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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The con is to tell everyone they will have terrific healthcare and we will not touch medicare/medicaid or SS and we will rebuild our military and a wall and a space force all while dramatically reducing taxes for the wealthy and corporations while we get rid of the deficit.

Trump knows his base and he knows they will fall for the con...just like Trump University.
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  #55  
Old 10-17-18, 01:52 PM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Then have the balls to cut services and or the budget or don't about debt/deficit in the off years. Trumps base loves medicaid/medicare/SS at the individual level.
The House GOP budget for 2019 is proposing cuts to Medicaid and Medicare.

When will you start whining about the GOP wanting to kill grandma?
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  #56  
Old 10-17-18, 02:50 PM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
I'm just saying that's how the libs try and split hairs when it comes to spending. The military is the largest portion of discretionary spending, but considering what falls under that caregory, it's not really surprising. If you look at gross spending, without lumping things into categories it presents a different picture.

Medicaid should be run at the state level. But then you would require the states to fund it which would move numbers around to the point that people in some states may see higher taxes.
The fact that it's the largest portion shouldn't be surprising, but the actual cost, especially when compared to what other country's spend should be.
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  #57  
Old 10-17-18, 02:55 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
…….

Both sides want to SPEND OURSELVES INTO PROSPERITY.
But only the Democrats want to tax us into prosperity......
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  #58  
Old 10-17-18, 02:57 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
The con is to tell everyone they will have terrific healthcare and we will not touch medicare/medicaid or SS and we will rebuild our military and a wall and a space force all while dramatically reducing taxes for the wealthy and corporations while we get rid of the deficit.

Trump knows his base and he knows they will fall for the con...just like Trump University.
We have the best healthcare in the world, no one can really argue otherwise. The best hospitals, the best doctors, the best treatments and the best medicines...… your problem is you don't really understand the difference between healthcare and the cost of healthcare.
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  #59  
Old 10-17-18, 04:34 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
CHS is will to donate his Medicare and SS to the cause.
You joke about this, but I will happily forego any SS benefits if it means my children never have to pay SS taxes.
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  #60  
Old 10-17-18, 05:20 PM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
The fact that it's the largest portion shouldn't be surprising, but the actual cost, especially when compared to what other country's spend should be.
Okay. We spend more on a lot of things than other countries do. It's not limited to the military. It just always becomes a pissing contest between cutting entitlements and cutting the defense budget when realistically it needs to be across the board, and not necessarily even.
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