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  #121  
Old 06-20-17, 08:42 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
there was some outrage by some(not Obama) when that Marine made a WRONG turn and ended up in Mexico.....and then ended up in prison.....
No one was calling for open war with Mexico over it and rightly so.
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  #122  
Old 06-20-17, 08:48 PM
JediMaster JediMaster is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
From the same link

Following the mass disappearance of students in Guerrero, which has exposed how deep state-sponsored violence and corruption runs, Guerrero has been making headlines around the world. In Iguala–a historic town with a population of 110,000, located 120 miles South of Mexico City–43 students teachers were allegedly taken by corrupt local police after a day of protest. The students, some as young as 17 years old, were last seen being pushed into police vans on September 26th. It is suspected they were massacred by criminal gangs.


Did you decide to stop reading before you got to this part?
Were they U.S. citizens? Did you decide to stop comprehending words when you got to this part? It also says they were allegedly taken by corrupt local police after a day of protest. I know even the most snowflake of Americans aren't dumb enough to go protest in other countries, particularly south of the border..
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  #123  
Old 06-20-17, 09:18 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by JediMaster View Post
Were they U.S. citizens? Did you decide to stop comprehending words when you got to this part? It also says they were allegedly taken by corrupt local police after a day of protest. I know even the most snowflake of Americans aren't dumb enough to go protest in other countries, particularly south of the border..
They're only corrupt if they are loading AMERICAN teenagers into a police van to be massacred by drug lords?

Seriously dude, you are trying to hard to win a losing argument.
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  #124  
Old 06-20-17, 10:01 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
My knowledge of North Korea is precisely why I call for restraint and cooler heads.
They are a nuclear power that will no doubt strike American bases, Tokyo, Seoul among other cities.
North Korea has the largest artillery force in the world with 90% pointed at Seoul. Seoul will be a wasteland within minutes. Tokyo will be Nuked.

North Korea will be turned into a wasteland but at what cost?
Where have I called for war with NK over this? Of course "cooler heads" will prevail. My complaint with you and others is that you do not want to face the likelihood that this guy was framed, kidnapped and then beaten to death by North Korean security personnel. There is absolutely NO REASON to believe the NK version of events. Their track record speaks for itself.

I get that our hands are tied. I get that NK artillery will turn Seoul into an inferno. I get that our troops on the Korean peninsula will be in harms way should war break out. I get that a Japanese city might be leveled by an atomic blast if the shooting starts.

For all these reasons and more we can not retaliate when NK murders an American citizen who was foolish enough to enter their country. But that doesn't absolve me from knowing that NK is an insane regime that murdered a fellow citizen. And for the record all the dire predictions you threw out are still likely to happen; if not tomorrow sometime in the near future.
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  #125  
Old 06-20-17, 10:13 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
His race or social status has nothing to do with it.
Maybe in your eyes they don't but I've been seeing plenty of stuff from the left that in fact race is playing a role here. Stuff like this piece from the Huff Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/la-sha...b_9531122.html

Others have echoed this point mocking the "frat boy" because his "white privilege" couldn't protect him outside the USA. Salon had an article that was giddy that the "white boy" got decades of hard labor.
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  #126  
Old 06-20-17, 10:17 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Where have I called for war with NK over this? Of course "cooler heads" will prevail. My complaint with you and others is that you do not want to face the likelihood that this guy was framed, kidnapped and then beaten to death by North Korean security personnel. There is absolutely NO REASON to believe the NK version of events. Their track record speaks for itself.

I get that our hands are tied. I get that NK artillery will turn Seoul into an inferno. I get that our troops on the Korean peninsula will be in harms way should war break out. I get that a Japanese city might be leveled by an atomic blast if the shooting starts.

For all these reasons and more we can not retaliate when NK murders an American citizen who was foolish enough to enter their country. But that doesn't absolve me from knowing that NK is an insane regime that murdered a fellow citizen. And for the record all the dire predictions you threw out are still likely to happen; if not tomorrow sometime in the near future.
You haven't called for war but others have...

I haven't argued that North Korea didn't frame him. They probably did. What can we do about it? Not much unless you're willing to start a nuclear war.

The whole situation sucks. The only way to prevent a repeat is to not go to NK.
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  #127  
Old 06-20-17, 10:20 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Maybe in your eyes they don't but I've been seeing plenty of stuff from the left that in fact race is playing a role here. Stuff like this piece from the Huff Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/la-sha...b_9531122.html

Others have echoed this point mocking the "frat boy" because his "white privilege" couldn't protect him outside the USA. Salon had an article that was giddy that the "white boy" got decades of hard labor.
Not surprised that Salon and Huffpo would write crap like that.
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  #128  
Old 06-20-17, 10:27 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Far more Americans die in Mexico than in North Korea. Why aren't you outraged by this fact? Why aren't you calling for the US to come down hard on Mexico?

What options do you think the US has at it's disposal to convince the North Koreans to change their ways?
First, I'm not calling for the US to "come down on North Korea". I understand our limitations and the terrible implications of any attack on the North. Sad to say but this one guy being murdered is not worth unleashing the dogs of war. However I also don't believe anything NK says on the matter and I believe that this guy was framed, kidnapped and then murdered by the North Korean regime.

Second, I am outraged when an American is murdered in Mexico but to compare Mexico to North Korea is as glaring an example of "false equivalence" that I have ever seen. North Korea is a uniquely odious regime that has enslaved ALL 23,000,000 of its people. There are simply no parallels between Mexico and NK. If you believe there are you truly don't understand what NK is.

Third, have you ever looked at a map? Because if you did you would notice that Mexico is on the US border and that millions of Americans visit Mexico every year. Last I checked NK was on the other side of the world. So of course more Americans would be expected to die in Mexico versus NK.
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  #129  
Old 06-20-17, 10:51 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
.......

I get that our hands are tied. I get that NK artillery will turn Seoul into an inferno. I get that our troops on the Korean peninsula will be in harms way should war break out. I get that a Japanese city might be leveled by an atomic blast if the shooting starts.
........
I'm not saying we should retaliate, and it was a horrible tragedy, but if you are going to travel to a country that is ruled by a murderous dictator (or a nation known for harboring and abetting terrorists) there's a chance that you are going to end up in a bad situation.

I'd be shocked if we didn't have a plan in place to hit North Korea to take out its nuclear delivery capabilities in a 1st strike, destroy its command and control capabilities (with some kind of EMP device), and severely curtail its ability to strike Seoul. It would be silly not to have plans already in place in case NK decided to try to change the outcome of the Korean War, otherwise what is holding loony Un from invading the South?
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  #130  
Old 06-21-17, 07:28 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
I'm not saying we should retaliate, and it was a horrible tragedy, but if you are going to travel to a country that is ruled by a murderous dictator (or a nation known for harboring and abetting terrorists) there's a chance that you are going to end up in a bad situation.

I agree 100% that the mistake this guy made, and it cost him his life, was traveling to North Korea. But IMO that's where it ends. From that point on NK framed him, kidnapped him and then beat him to death. What is bugging me are the number of folks taking it one step further and saying that this guy broke NK law and while the sentence was harsh he got what he deserved.

IMO this is a spiteful position to take and shows absolutely no understanding of just how warped North Korea is. The NK's will ignore every convention and international norm to grab foreigners and hold them "hostage". I guess it might make some people feel better to imagine that this guy sort of got what was coming to him. It's beats the likely reality that he was framed & murdered and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it.



I'd be shocked if we didn't have a plan in place to hit North Korea to take out its nuclear delivery capabilities in a 1st strike, destroy its command and control capabilities (with some kind of EMP device), and severely curtail its ability to strike Seoul. It would be silly not to have plans already in place in case NK decided to try to change the outcome of the Korean War, otherwise what is holding loony Un from invading the South?

I suspect we have very intense plans in place to take out the NK leadership & military in the event of war. Our best option though is to get China to take out NK's "dear leader" behind the scenes and I suspect that was a key topic during president Trumps long private conversation with the Chinese leader a couple of months ago.
-
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  #131  
Old 06-21-17, 03:31 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
-The NK's will ignore every convention and international norm to grab foreigners and hold them "hostage". I guess it might make some people feel better to imagine that this guy sort of got what was coming to him. It's beats the likely reality that he was framed & murdered and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it.
and yet you don't see this as a reason to not hand them an excuse on a silver platter? Your position is so weak even in your own mind, to avoid debating what has been said, you turn what has been said by those with whom you disagree saying "he deserved it."

HE gave NK the opening to do this not only to him, but to the others held and others they wish to hold. This is why anyone entering such places are given clear behavior warnings by the US State Dept. He ignored them. He committed a crime not only to the NKs but to the US. It is treasonist, not of the worst type, but still is.


Every single person on this board that traveled as military will tell you, that is so. Any that ever represented the government or a US corportation in any position, will tell you this is so.

An American wants to travel to these places, they represent more than themselves and they owe it to the rest to behave respectfully to the culture and the RULES of where they visit. It cost the REST OF US, political capital to get their butts out of the jam. It cost us several political (and apparently private) trips to get that guy out of there.

Not having sympathy for someone is not the same as saying they "got what they deserve." He definitely got more than what even the NKs said he deserved, but he put himself in that position. No sympathies.
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  #132  
Old 06-21-17, 03:55 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
First, I'm not calling for the US to "come down on North Korea". I understand our limitations and the terrible implications of any attack on the North. Sad to say but this one guy being murdered is not worth unleashing the dogs of war. However I also don't believe anything NK says on the matter and I believe that this guy was framed, kidnapped and then murdered by the North Korean regime.

Second, I am outraged when an American is murdered in Mexico but to compare Mexico to North Korea is as glaring an example of "false equivalence" that I have ever seen. North Korea is a uniquely odious regime that has enslaved ALL 23,000,000 of its people. There are simply no parallels between Mexico and NK. If you believe there are you truly don't understand what NK is.

Third, have you ever looked at a map? Because if you did you would notice that Mexico is on the US border and that millions of Americans visit Mexico every year. Last I checked NK was on the other side of the world. So of course more Americans would be expected to die in Mexico versus NK.

You completely missed the point on Mexico.... I brought up Mexico because someone made the argument that North Korea's government is corrupt is a reason we should be outraged.
Mexico's government is corrupt. Why isn't there outrage of that? More American die in Mexico every year than in NK but no outrage.

It's a stupid position to say "nuke em" to North Korea because of their corrupt government's involvement in the death of one American if you aren't willing to say the same thing about other corrupt governments.
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  #133  
Old 06-21-17, 04:03 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
I'm not saying we should retaliate, and it was a horrible tragedy, but if you are going to travel to a country that is ruled by a murderous dictator (or a nation known for harboring and abetting terrorists) there's a chance that you are going to end up in a bad situation.

I'd be shocked if we didn't have a plan in place to hit North Korea to take out its nuclear delivery capabilities in a 1st strike, destroy its command and control capabilities (with some kind of EMP device), and severely curtail its ability to strike Seoul. It would be silly not to have plans already in place in case NK decided to try to change the outcome of the Korean War, otherwise what is holding loony Un from invading the South?
North Korea has 4500 artillery pieces pointing at Seoul. They can not be destroyed in one strike. Any attempt to strike North Korea will result in Seoul being turned to rubble.

We as a military do not have the assets in place to hit North Korea hard enough with a preemptive first strike short of using ICBM nukes. China and Russia would not take kindly to ICBM's heading in their general direction.
Any attempt to move enough assets into that theatre prior to striking would probably trigger a preemptive strike by North Korea.

The status quo is the best option for now along with missile defense systems.
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  #134  
Old 06-21-17, 08:38 PM
Uncle Ted Uncle Ted is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
You completely missed the point on Mexico.... I brought up Mexico because someone made the argument that North Korea's government is corrupt is a reason we should be outraged.
Mexico's government is corrupt. Why isn't there outrage of that? More American die in Mexico every year than in NK but no outrage.

It's a stupid position to say "nuke em" to North Korea because of their corrupt government's involvement in the death of one American if you aren't willing to say the same thing about other corrupt governments.
I have been saying for years we need to take military action action against Mexico.
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  #135  
Old 06-21-17, 10:51 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
-IMO this is a spiteful position to take and shows absolutely no understanding of just how warped North Korea is. The NK's will ignore every convention and international norm to grab foreigners and hold them "hostage". I guess it might make some people feel better to imagine that this guy sort of got what was coming to him. It's beats the likely reality that he was framed & murdered and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it.
So I do think he is 100% to blame for getting into trouble, but that's not what killed him. NK is 100% liable for his torture and death.
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  #136  
Old 06-22-17, 03:50 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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So I do think he is 100% to blame for getting into trouble, but that's not what killed him. NK is 100% liable for his torture and death.
presuming someone can prove responsibilty for his beating. Good luck with that or with collecting damages when the gross national product is less then the cost of a box of Cheerios.

Has that even been claimed, that he was beat, let alone by authorities? Or is that media/agenda propaganda? Family doesn't want an autopsy? I've not read to know what is what.
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  #137  
Old 06-22-17, 06:55 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
presuming someone can prove responsibilty for his beating. Good luck with that or with collecting damages when the gross national product is less then the cost of a box of Cheerios.

Has that even been claimed, that he was beat, let alone by authorities? Or is that media/agenda propaganda? Family doesn't want an autopsy? I've not read to know what is what.
As far as I've heard, they have no idea how he ended up in a coma. But I have read that he was in a coma for over a year, time enough for almost anything to heal and without an invasive autopsy we may never know what happened.
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  #138  
Old 06-23-17, 08:43 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Has that even been claimed, that he was beat, let alone by authorities? Or is that media/agenda propaganda? Family doesn't want an autopsy? I've not read to know what is what.
I guess he could have experienced a spontaneous coma sort of like those people who experience spontaneous combustion.

Or maybe they used chemical means to induce a coma? Or maybe they experimented on him? More likely SWMCinci hit the nail on the head in pointing out that he was in a coma for a long time - long enough for the marks from his beatings to heal.

But hey I get you want to give NK the benefit of doubt. I mean their track record has sure earned them that consideration. And as you have pointed out in other posts we do the same things to people here in the US all the time.
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  #139  
Old 06-23-17, 08:51 AM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
presuming someone can prove responsibilty for his beating. Good luck with that or with collecting damages when the gross national product is less then the cost of a box of Cheerios.

Has that even been claimed, that he was beat, let alone by authorities? Or is that media/agenda propaganda? Family doesn't want an autopsy? I've not read to know what is what.
I think they are Jewish. Isn't there some issues with Autopsies and the Jewish faith? Not sure have to research that...

Quick google search:

The Jewish belief in the inviolability of the human body is reflected in its attitude to postmortem examinations. The Talmud (Sanhedrin 47a) asserts that the biblical imperative of speedy burial (Deuteronomy 21:22-23) is based upon the prohibition of disgracing a corpse. The scope of this prohibition extends beyond delayed burial. Scripture proscribes the inflicting of any form of disgrace upon a corpse. In general, this includes the disfigurement of the body as a result of postmortem dissection (autopsy).
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  #140  
Old 06-23-17, 09:10 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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This just royaly pisses me off

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4174565
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  #141  
Old 06-26-17, 07:38 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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This is for those posters arguing that Otto "got what he deserved" and North Korea isn't all that different than Mexico:

http://www.businessinsider.com/un-no...-the-country-1

Pretty horrific stuff and this is just their prison camps. Keep in mind that almost all the folks in these "camps" are political prisoners being kept alive (if you can call it being alive) because they either might serve some future purpose or their suffering provides an example of what happens to you should you displease the government & dear leader. "Normal" criminals (rapists, murderers, thieves, etc) are either executed or worked to death so as not to waste space in the prison camps.

Meanwhile those on the "left" continue their disturbing pattern of celebrating this guys death at the hands of the North Koreans:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/25/ex...t-he-deserved/

Ignoring the cruel lack of empathy being exhibited by these people it's interesting to see the common theme running through their heartless statements: "spoiled white man is stripped of his privilege and gets what he deserves when he violates North Korean laws." Fortunately this vile women lost her job as a University professor!

There is a strange undercurrent here that is not healthy for the future of this country.
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  #142  
Old 06-26-17, 08:55 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
This is for those posters arguing that Otto "got what he deserved" and North Korea isn't all that different than Mexico:

http://www.businessinsider.com/un-no...-the-country-1

Pretty horrific stuff and this is just their prison camps. Keep in mind that almost all the folks in these "camps" are political prisoners being kept alive (if you can call it being alive) because they either might serve some future purpose or their suffering provides an example of what happens to you should you displease the government & dear leader. "Normal" criminals (rapists, murderers, thieves, etc) are either executed or worked to death so as not to waste space in the prison camps.

Meanwhile those on the "left" continue their disturbing pattern of celebrating this guys death at the hands of the North Koreans:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/25/ex...t-he-deserved/

Ignoring the cruel lack of empathy being exhibited by these people it's interesting to see the common theme running through their heartless statements: "spoiled white man is stripped of his privilege and gets what he deserves when he violates North Korean laws." Fortunately this vile women lost her job as a University professor!

There is a strange undercurrent here that is not healthy for the future of this country.
What would you have the US do about his death?
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  #143  
Old 06-26-17, 11:33 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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I think they are Jewish. Isn't there some issues with Autopsies and the Jewish faith? Not sure have to research that...

Quick google search:

The Jewish belief in the inviolability of the human body is reflected in its attitude to postmortem examinations. The Talmud (Sanhedrin 47a) asserts that the biblical imperative of speedy burial (Deuteronomy 21:22-23) is based upon the prohibition of disgracing a corpse. The scope of this prohibition extends beyond delayed burial. Scripture proscribes the inflicting of any form of disgrace upon a corpse. In general, this includes the disfigurement of the body as a result of postmortem dissection (autopsy).
His family is Jewish. I'm Jewish as well and will say what you have cited is pretty accurate. Having said that, what you have cited is primarily applicable to Orthodox Jews. I identify as someone that is more adherent to Reform Judaism. The Warmbiers are of a Ashkenazi Jewish background as am I (as opposed to Sephardic). That and in itself will not determine if someone is Orthodox or not. (The question of differences between Orthodox and Reform Judaism, in simple terms, has to do with the interpretation of the Torah. It is not really important to the discussion here. Reformists are more "progressive' and not as bound to tradition). I have a relative that is Orthodox and did have an autopsy upon death. The family decided that her having an autopsy would be beneficial to others in terms of research of a rare disease. Instances similar to that is when Orthodox Jews will sometimes have autopsies. My guess is that the Warmbier family surmised that nothing could be gained from having the autopsy done and chose to keep Otto's body intact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post

Meanwhile those on the "left" continue their disturbing pattern of celebrating this guys death at the hands of the North Koreans:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/25/ex...t-he-deserved/

There is a strange undercurrent here that is not healthy for the future of this country.
What Warmbier did was not smart (if, indeed, it is true that he did steal the banner as everyone only believes that he did because that is what the N. Korean propagandists say that he did. Personally I would never believe anything coming from the NK government. Maybe he took the banner or maybe he didn't). His larger mistake was in going to NK in the first place but that is neither here nor there. He didn't heed State Department warnings and made the choice to enter NK. Poor choice. Despite all of that, what happened to Warmbier is horrific and shouldn't happen to anyone. Nobody deserves that fate. A civilized nation might have detained him for a short time, scolded him, perhaps made him pay a fine, and then sent him on his way with his tail between his legs.

I read the referenced article and did not see anything that identified the professor as someone on the "left." Yes, the professor's comments were very stupid but what I am seeing as a "strange undercurrent [here] that is not healthy for the future of this country" is those that are using this tragedy and similar tragedies as a means to make a political statement or to pin "right" against "left." Using this young man's death to cast aspersions on a political ideology that is different from what one might believe is sickening, really.
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  #144  
Old 06-26-17, 04:18 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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I read the referenced article and did not see anything that identified the professor as someone on the "left." Yes, the professor's comments were very stupid but what I am seeing as a "strange undercurrent [here] that is not healthy for the future of this country" is those that are using this tragedy and similar tragedies as a means to make a political statement or to pin "right" against "left." Using this young man's death to cast aspersions on a political ideology that is different from what one might believe is sickening, really.
Yep, but they're not even hearing you. It's more important to them to have their forum to group, demonize and demi god than to really care about this kid or anyone else affected.

As for whether or not the kid "did it," if the video isn't enough then there's the people admitting they put him up to it. Dislike or hate NK or its leader, how much more evidence does anyone need, "he did or didn't do it," is being used as a distraction from the real topics. What are the responsibilities of a citizen that goes to these countries and how much political will do we send to pull them out of the crapfest they cause by not listening to good advice?

What happened to the kid is secondary because by his actions, there was nothing anyone could do about it. He swam naked with raw meat around his neck in a pool of gators. It wasn't even a game of chicken. By accounts of those explaining why he did this, the kid was so clueless and selfish and ego driven, I can't even presume he didn't go into the prison talking sheet nor try to lay low. I feel for his family and those missing him but he committed suicide by NK and anyone reading the literature on the way in the door would know that.

Sometimes and hopefully, this is all the warning the next numbskull needs and then maybe we can say, some good came out of this. But what he did will never amount to martyr.
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  #145  
Old 06-26-17, 09:18 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
What would you have the US do about his death?
As you have pointed out there is nothing the US government can do. Going to war over this is not an option.

However individual Americans can show some compassion for a man who paid a terrible price for making the mistake of visiting North Korea. Americans can also unite in rejecting the accusations made against this guy by the odious North Korean regime. Only a fool would consider ANYTHING the North Koreans said as being true. And finally Americans who are expressing a warped sense of satisfaction at this mans death need to examine their own twisted souls.
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  #146  
Old 06-26-17, 09:29 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
What Warmbier did was not smart (if, indeed, it is true that he did steal the banner as everyone only believes that he did because that is what the N. Korean propagandists say that he did. Personally I would never believe anything coming from the NK government. Maybe he took the banner or maybe he didn't). His larger mistake was in going to NK in the first place but that is neither here nor there. He didn't heed State Department warnings and made the choice to enter NK. Poor choice. Despite all of that, what happened to Warmbier is horrific and shouldn't happen to anyone. Nobody deserves that fate. A civilized nation might have detained him for a short time, scolded him, perhaps made him pay a fine, and then sent him on his way with his tail between his legs.

I read the referenced article and did not see anything that identified the professor as someone on the "left." Yes, the professor's comments were very stupid but what I am seeing as a "strange undercurrent [here] that is not healthy for the future of this country" is those that are using this tragedy and similar tragedies as a means to make a political statement or to pin "right" against "left." Using this young man's death to cast aspersions on a political ideology that is different from what one might believe is sickening, really.
You won't get an argument from me that visiting North Korea wasn't a smart thing to do. But that was the ONLY thing we know for a fact that this guy did wrong. The subsequent North Korean accusations and "proof" of criminal behavior by this guy are unproven. And given the demonstrated actions of North Korea in kidnapping & framing foreigners why anyone would believe a thing the NK government says is beyond me.

Here is some further info on professor Katherine Dettwyler:

http://heavy.com/news/2017/06/kather...are-professor/

You can believe she's not from the "left" but the evidence seems pretty clear that she is. And she's not the only one, recent articles in the Huff Post & Salon along with other left wing sources have expressed what can only be described as glee that this guy was tortured and sentenced to 20 years in prison. Even his death has not caused these folks to express any compassion. Comedy Central also had one of their "personalities" go on a rant about how this guy got what he deserved.

The common theme in these articles is that this guy was a privileged white male whose "privilege" didn't protect him in NK. The racial elements of the lefts comments on this situation are especially disturbing.
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  #147  
Old 06-26-17, 09:40 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Yep, but they're not even hearing you. It's more important to them to have their forum to group, demonize and demi god than to really care about this kid or anyone else affected.

I will proudly demonize North Korea every chance I can. If you consider that a problem then you need to examine your values ASAP. BTW, pointing out the bestial, odious and psychotic nature of the NK regime is not the act of a "demigod".


As for whether or not the kid "did it," if the video isn't enough then there's the people admitting they put him up to it. Dislike or hate NK or its leader, how much more evidence does anyone need, "he did or didn't do it," is being used as a distraction from the real topics. What are the responsibilities of a citizen that goes to these countries and how much political will do we send to pull them out of the crapfest they cause by not listening to good advice?

There are videos of UFO's, Sasquatch and the Lock Ness Monster. Are they real? Again, maybe he did the crime or maybe he didn't, but anything provided by the NK government to prove he committed a crime is very suspect - including a poorly done video. The default position on anything out of NK is that it's not true.


What happened to the kid is secondary because by his actions, there was nothing anyone could do about it. He swam naked with raw meat around his neck in a pool of gators. It wasn't even a game of chicken. By accounts of those explaining why he did this, the kid was so clueless and selfish and ego driven, I can't even presume he didn't go into the prison talking sheet nor try to lay low. I feel for his family and those missing him but he committed suicide by NK and anyone reading the literature on the way in the door would know that.

Your compassion is eyeopening. Funny how you except the word of NK thugs but demonize this guy without any evidence. So you think he was talking smack as they led him off to the prison camp? Of course he had to be doing this before the monsters put him into a coma.


Sometimes and hopefully, this is all the warning the next numbskull needs and then maybe we can say, some good came out of this. But what he did will never amount to martyr.
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  #148  
Old 06-27-17, 06:02 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
-Originally Posted by eastisbest
Quote:
Yep, but they're (LOTR) not even hearing you. It's more important to them to have their forum to group, demonize and demi god than to really care about this kid or anyone else affected.
1)I will proudly demonize North Korea every chance I can.


Quote:
As for whether or not the kid "did it," if the video isn't enough then there's the people admitting they put him up to it. Dislike or hate NK or its leader, how much more evidence does anyone need,
2) There are videos of UFO's, Sasquatch and the Lock Ness Monster. Are they real? Again, maybe he did the crime or maybe he didn't,


Quote:
the kid was so clueless and selfish and ego driven, I can't even presume he didn't go into the prison talking sheet nor try to lay low. I feel for his family and those missing him but he committed suicide by NK and anyone reading the literature on the way in the door would know that.
3) Funny how you except the word of NK thugs but demonize this guy without any evidence. So you think he was talking smack as they led him off to the prison camp? Of course he had to be doing this before the monsters put him into a coma.


Quote:
Sometimes and hopefully, this is all the warning the next numbskull needs and then maybe we can say, some good came out of this. But what he did will never amount to
1) He was talking about the "left" "right" nonsense not NK, whom we all "demonize." Why are you persistently in your posting making up "facts," creating strawman , and out right changing the position expressed by others then accusing them of making them? Is honest and open debate so abhorrent to you? There are words created to describe people like that. I'm sure they welcome you into their party.

Have you noticed at all, those you are debating are providing facts from the situation as they can find them and you are providing only drivel and refusing to accept even the possibility of the facts? That's delusional.

2) Again so driven with desire to be correct by any untruth or fabrication, you for the third time have ignored, his friends ADMITTED they put him up to it for reward. How desperate do you have to be? HE DID IT, accept and at least move your rationalizations on from that FACT.

That HE DID IT, is no longer a debate. Your go to strawman that NK is a dangerous and untrustworthy place that generally sucks has NEVER been a debate. These are already accepted fact. Debate the debatable that you continue to Strawman.
- The appropriateness of his being there in the first place.
- The accountability of those that commit crimes of any magnitude on foreign soil.
- The risk his actions put others in.
- The cost to US diplomacy efforts in the region.


3) Such poor language skills or are your logic skills failing again cabby? The difference between "can't presume" and "except (sic) the word?" Above your paygrade?

"Without any evidence?" Look up. What color is the sky?
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  #149  
Old 06-27-17, 07:21 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
1) He was talking about the "left" "right" nonsense not NK, whom we all "demonize." Why are you persistently in your posting making up "facts," creating strawman , and out right changing the position expressed by others then accusing them of making them? Is honest and open debate so abhorrent to you? There are words created to describe people like that. I'm sure they welcome you into their party.

Have you noticed at all, those you are debating are providing facts from the situation as they can find them and you are providing only drivel and refusing to accept even the possibility of the facts? That's delusional.

2) Again so driven with desire to be correct by any untruth or fabrication, you for the third time have ignored, his friends ADMITTED they put him up to it for reward. How desperate do you have to be? HE DID IT, accept and at least move your rationalizations on from that FACT.

That HE DID IT, is no longer a debate. Your go to strawman that NK is a dangerous and untrustworthy place that generally sucks has NEVER been a debate. These are already accepted fact. Debate the debatable that you continue to Strawman.
- The appropriateness of his being there in the first place.
- The accountability of those that commit crimes of any magnitude on foreign soil.
- The risk his actions put others in.
- The cost to US diplomacy efforts in the region.


3) Such poor language skills or are your logic skills failing again cabby? The difference between "can't presume" and "except (sic) the word?" Above your paygrade?

"Without any evidence?" Look up. What color is the sky?
First off there is a left/right divide in the reaction to this story. While both sides agree it was a mistake for him to visit NK there is clearly a racial "revenge" element to comments made about this situation by some of those on the left. Of course it's not universal but there have been enough instances from leading left wing media outlets to be disturbing.

Second, North Korea isn't just a run of the mill crazy totalitarian country. It's the most repressive nation on earth which has systematically enslaved its ENTIRE population for over 60 years. No other nation comes close. When you add in the established fact that NK has routinely kidnapped, framed & brutalized foreign nationals for political purposes there is no way you can trust anything that comes out of this government.

Third, growing up it was common for groups of friends to dare someone in the group to do something "wild" or "dangerous". The person would go off and sometimes do the deed and other times NOT do the deed. Again, until PROVEN otherwise I do not know whether this guy even committed the crime he was accused of.
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  #150  
Old 06-27-17, 11:03 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
First off there is a left/right divide in the reaction to this story. While both sides agree it was a mistake for him to visit NK there is clearly a racial "revenge" element to comments made about this situation by some of those on the left. Of course it's not universal but there have been enough instances from leading left wing media outlets to be disturbing.

Second, North Korea isn't just a run of the mill crazy totalitarian country. It's the most repressive nation on earth which has systematically enslaved its ENTIRE population for over 60 years. No other nation comes close. When you add in the established fact that NK has routinely kidnapped, framed & brutalized foreign nationals for political purposes there is no way you can trust anything that comes out of this government.

Third, growing up it was common for groups of friends to dare someone in the group to do something "wild" or "dangerous". The person would go off and sometimes do the deed and other times NOT do the deed. Again, until PROVEN otherwise I do not know whether this guy even committed the crime he was accused of.
Yep, North Korea is a crappy place ran by a ruthless dictator. Only an idiot would vacation there and even a bigger idiot would attempt to commit a crime while there.

What should the US do to punish North Korea for such a heinous act against a huge idiot?

Lotr10, you have a large list of grievances and rightly so but no real solutions. The world is neither fair nor kind at times. Except it.
Otto Warmbier should have made better decisions.


My son recently vacationed in a resort in Mexico. Before leaving I told him the dangers of leaving the resort and of breaking Mexican laws and that if he should choose to break those laws or venture off the resort he was putting his life in very grave danger. This is the reality of our world. Except it.
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