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  #301  
Old 08-08-12, 02:20 PM
offguard offguard is offline
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Great point but at eds we run about 7 to 8 B games each year as freshman so our drop of is generally after there sophomore year because as you stated your drop off is post Freshman season because of lack of reps at the freshman level and ours is post sophomore year because of the same. All the same players are players and will stick it out no matter what to be part of something special and those who do not they probably did not need in program anyways.Just making a comment to parents in general as far as what some of the parents went thru over at Iggy as freshmen with The saying i show up everyday and practice hard put never get a chance to play in the games.Is what is a reality over at eds this year as sophomores...
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  #302  
Old 08-08-12, 02:40 PM
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GencoEd GencoEd is offline
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Originally Posted by slammer20 View Post
That was the exact same model used by SEHS in the late 70's and early 80's. Do not know why or when it changed.
It was this way under McQuaide in the 90's as well....
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  #303  
Old 08-08-12, 03:22 PM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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This has been my one criticism of how St. Eds runs their program. While they get reps in drills and access to the varsity coaches (doesn't every schools JV have this, I don't know any school that has a "JV" coaching staff so I don't understand the argument), sophomore year is often a lost year as they spend most of their time running other teams packages and plays and not learning our system. There is almost no emphasis on the JV. They just show up and play with almost no preparation and then you suddenly expect them to turn on a switch junior or senior year.

What I've seen a lot of schools do (and what I experienced in high school) was the JV would have their own 20-30 minute session two or three times a week after the varsity practice to work on their own plays, get reps in our system and not just run scout packages all week. It makes for a much more cohesive sophomore year and allows the "next man up" system to flourish from year to year instead of relying on a handful of exceptional athletes in each class. If you don't teach them how to win as sophomores it doesn't just magically happen when they're upperclassmen.



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Originally Posted by slammer20 View Post
That was the exact same model used by SEHS in the late 70's and early 80's. Do not know why or when it changed. Having access to the varsity coaches and system as a sophomore proved invaluable in one's Jr. and Sr. campaigns. JV game day preparation suffered because of the same, but the emphasis was on getting good to great in week tutelage and prepare the varsity for Friday and Saturday evening contests.
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  #304  
Old 08-08-12, 03:41 PM
slammer20 slammer20 is offline
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^^^ I do not think I was detailed enough in my response. Back in the day, SEHS played a very similar schedule... JV and the Varsity squad... and the preparation one received during the week (detailing the opponent's schemes, etc.) was very similar. As a sophomore you did not receive the same rep.'s against said scheme as the varsity, but we did get together as a squad near week's end to run the JV 1's thru the plays we would execute come game day.

All the athletes, JV or Varsity received plenty of "drill" time to improve with his said position skills... and most of those came against juniors and seniors more advanced physically. There certainly was plenty of opportunity to improve one's skills and acquire the necessary "muscle memory" to make the game instinctive.

I believe the argument was one of "attitude" by the young sophomore's now NOT receiving quite the same individual attention they received as "herbies" and then their subsequent desire to work day in and day out throughout the season with little "pay day" (cliche) associated with their efforts and contribution to the program overall... it is a tough mental year for a developing athlete.

I am "torn" when evaluating the other argument inside of the original post... "junior's see game time on the JV schedule to improve their skills". I can see where a coaching staff would like to see a young man get "live" reps... but not necessarily at the expense of an equally deserving sophomore.

IMHO... athletes can get rep's during practice daily at any level, improve their skills, and contribute when called upon or when opportunity presents itself. Discipline is the "key" characteristic that must be exhibited when one is a 2nd or 3rd and its the coaching staff's responsibility to COMMUNICATE to each and every young man what their importance to the TEAM is... if not, yes, the young men will be less enthused and most apt to leave the program for another endeavor.
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  #305  
Old 08-08-12, 04:40 PM
EaglePride01 EaglePride01 is offline
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Last yearsEds freshman team wasn't undefeated. They lost their 1st game to Buchtel. The Griffs played both Eds freshmen teams, and beat them handedly. Just the fact man, just the facts......
You must have been one of those classy Buchtel fans in attendance yelling about how these "white boys" couldn't keep up with your team. The facts are that your A team played our B team. Buchtel was not on the A schedule. Our A team destroyed everything in their path en route to an undefeated season.
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  #306  
Old 08-08-12, 04:50 PM
iggyball iggyball is offline
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Originally Posted by Backdrop 1040
Last yearsEds freshman team wasn't undefeated. They lost their 1st game to Buchtel. The Griffs played both Eds freshmen teams, and beat them handedly. Just the fact man, just the facts......






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Originally Posted by EaglePride01 View Post
You must have been one of those classy Buchtel fans in attendance yelling about how these "white boys" couldn't keep up with your team. The facts are that your A team played our B team. Buchtel was not on the A schedule. Our A team destroyed everything in their path en route to an undefeated season.
Just curious Backdrop- did your freshman team really play both Eds freshman teams? Seems odd. I would also find it hard to believe you beat their A team.
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  #307  
Old 08-08-12, 11:09 PM
Backdrop 1040 Backdrop 1040 is offline
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Originally Posted by EaglePride01 View Post
You must have been one of those classy Buchtel fans in attendance yelling about how these "white boys" couldn't keep up with your team. The facts are that your A team played our B team. Buchtel was not on the A schedule. Our A team destroyed everything in their path en route to an undefeated season.
No that wasn't me. It's all about football game with me, not race. I actually cringe when i hear those type of comments said at the games when we play predominitely white schools. Now back to the facts: We played your A-team the 1st half. At halftime a whole new team, with a completely different coaching staff, came on the field and played the 2nd half. I assume that was the B-team. It was a very good game in which the griffs won
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  #308  
Old 08-08-12, 11:17 PM
Backdrop 1040 Backdrop 1040 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iggyball View Post
Originally Posted by Backdrop 1040
Last yearsEds freshman team wasn't undefeated. They lost their 1st game to Buchtel. The Griffs played both Eds freshmen teams, and beat them handedly. Just the fact man, just the facts......








Just curious Backdrop- did your freshman team really play both Eds freshman teams? Seems odd. I would also find it hard to believe you beat their A team.
Also, a couple days later, we played your jv in a very physical game and prevailed. FYI: 75% of that jv team were freshmen. Either way they were all good teams. We'll see in 3 weeks just how good.
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  #309  
Old 08-08-12, 11:37 PM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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You're mistaken. They don't switch out teams at half and there's only one freshmen coaching staff. You played the B team. Maybe they subbed in different guys in the second half, but it was the same team.

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Originally Posted by Backdrop 1040 View Post
No that wasn't me. It's all about football game with me, not race. I actually cringe when i hear those type of comments said at the games when we play predominitely white schools. Now back to the facts: We played your A-team the 1st half. At halftime a whole new team, with a completely different coaching staff, came on the field and played the 2nd half. I assume that was the B-team. It was a very good game in which the griffs won
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  #310  
Old 08-09-12, 01:33 AM
dfp51 dfp51 is offline
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I was at every Freshman A game last year and most of the B games. I don't recall off hand whether I was at the Buchtel game, but Ed's A team was 9-0 and assuredly did not play Buchtel. The B team did generally run a different backfield in the second half than the first half. As was said above, there was only one coaching staff. Indeed, there can be only one Greg Urbas.

It will be interesting to see how the class of 15 handles this year. There are a number of guys who played last year who did not come out this summer or who have hung them up since the Carroll camp (I think 8-10, 3 of whom started on the A team last year). A solid handful are getting some practice reps with the varsity guys, not just playing scout team. Also it appears likely that Dipre, Dowell and Crawford will be contributors on the varsity this year. It will be interesting to see if some of the guys who are likely 2s on the depth chart will get to play JV (like Shurmer) or whether they will spend their time staying fresh in case of injury to the varsity 1s. Personally, I think that is a real downside of the system in place now. I have a hard time understanding how you are going to take some of your best young players and have them spend the year standing around rather than playing. Then again, I never won a state championship, so what do I know?

We will see how the young guys do when they start playing jv games. The A team certainly didn't struggle at all last year, and off hand I can't recall a game that wasn't in hand by the end of the 1st quarter (except maybe McDowell). Of course, the important thing is how many members of that class are starting or solid contributors on varsity in 13, and how they do their senior season.
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  #311  
Old 08-09-12, 05:04 AM
slammer20 slammer20 is offline
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I find it interesting that some posters take pride in a victory earned in a freshman year contest (i.e. Buchtel poster). Granted, each class (and young man) should take pride in their performance game by game and year by year, but the OHSAA does not recognize championships earned at the freshman or JV year levels.

Even in the "high" enrollment era of the mid to late 70's at SEHS, we had attrition issues year by year in each sport or endeavor. For instance, an incoming freshman football class of 100 + saw maybe 65-75 return for a sophomore campaign. The attrition continued that next year (or junior year) and saw both a junior and senior class contribute 50-60 young men each to a varsity squad compromised of 100-120 athletes. I recall staring at a daily depth chart compromised of 40 DB's with each position having 10 athletes compete for one starting role. Sheer numbers and little game day participation can cause young athletes to question their contribution to the "team" and seek fulfillment in other endeavors.

Young athletes need to be aware that they develop and mature at different rates between their freshman and senior years. I have witnessed those "undefeated" freshman and JV classes struggle as varsity performers. I have seen underclassmen wrestlers deliver exceptional results early on at the state level, not place at the state tournament their upperclassmen campaigns.

I look forward to seeing how this coaching staff handles this 2012 squad. Integrating young contributors, delivering results without exceptional interior line play, and finding roles for talented athletes at their non-natural or desired positions will all be intriguing. Mentor, Solon, Willoughby South, and St. Ignatius (in no particular order) will all have solid and talented teams in R1 (whatever the new division is called) in 2012.

Go Eagles.
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  #312  
Old 08-09-12, 05:37 AM
EaglePride01 EaglePride01 is offline
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Originally Posted by Backdrop 1040 View Post
No that wasn't me. It's all about football game with me, not race. I actually cringe when i hear those type of comments said at the games when we play predominitely white schools. Now back to the facts: We played your A-team the 1st half. At halftime a whole new team, with a completely different coaching staff, came on the field and played the 2nd half. I assume that was the B-team. It was a very good game in which the griffs won
The A team guys did not even dress. They had another game days later. It was all the B team.
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  #313  
Old 08-09-12, 07:29 AM
offguard offguard is offline
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Just an FYI the JV game that was held a few days later was close at the end of the first Quarter but half way thru the third quarter Most of the Starter were out of the game Eds was up 21 and they even had there third team back field in the game and at the end of the game they let a boy get a carry that had never had a carry in a game and he took it to the house as eds was trying to just keep the Clock moving. So really lets just keep real i remember your coaching staff during the game yelling for personal because they they did not have 11 on the field.Once again lets just talk the facts.Akron Buchtel has had some Good teams over the last few years at the varsity level as had St.Edwards but to match any teams up with eds at the lower levels there really has not been any contest.So if that is any indication of the out come of our game vs you at the varsity level our contest vs you will not even be close.But it will make for a fun night for some of the younger players...
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  #314  
Old 08-09-12, 08:21 AM
carbar47 carbar47 is offline
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Just to clarify, the "A" team did not dress or even travel to the "B" games. That is a fact! The class is extremely atheltic, however not much size (the game is won in the trenches). Several starters have either given up football to concentrate on other sports or transferred. I would assume St. Ed's has had other undefeated freshman teams, yet they only have 1 state championship in football.
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  #315  
Old 08-09-12, 09:02 AM
dfp51 dfp51 is offline
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Size is a strange thing for young linemen. Last year's freshmen had a couple of guys who would be considered big for freshmen (6 ft, 240ish or better). Only one of those guys started. Instead, a number of 6ft, 6'1" 190-200lb guys started, because those guys were in shape and could move. Ideally, a convergence happens and the thicker guys trade fluff for muscle and get quicker while the leaner guys thicken up. You can start to see that happening now. Hopefully it continues. In high school, 6'2 240 and solid beats 6'4" 270 and a bit flabby. Course 6'4" 270 and solid is ideal, but you just don't get a bunch of Orloskys and Kalis every year. But there are three or four guys in the class of 15 who will have D1 lineman size if they keep going the way they are.
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  #316  
Old 08-09-12, 10:46 AM
slammer20 slammer20 is offline
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Agreed... I would much prefer both size and agility, but a strong technique/mobile OL or DL athlete can be very effective at the high school level without being 6'5" and 280 lbs. +. The Eagles have been very fortunate over the years to be able to produce extremely productive OL and DL athletes that have made a difference on Friday and Saturday evenings.

Hats off to one Dan Scanlon (OL coach) who has done an exceptional job with these young men over the years and "coaching up" some exceptional OL for a decade +.
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  #317  
Old 08-09-12, 12:18 PM
Backdrop 1040 Backdrop 1040 is offline
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I will admit, i do not know the workings of your program, so we may have played only 1 team. As for the guy that's asking why should pride be taken in a freshman or jv victory: if a game is gonna be played, whether it's peewee or NFL, enough pride should be taken to play to the best of abilities and to try and win. Otherwise, what's the purpose of playing? Good luck with your season, and we will see you in 3 weeks time
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  #318  
Old 08-09-12, 12:39 PM
slammer20 slammer20 is offline
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Backdrop... my post did indicate that any athlete should take pride in competing and certainly strive to win. That's why we keep score... we agree on the same. My post addressed those comments that assume freshman and junior varsity performance is indicative of the "entirety" of the program. There are many variables that can impact lower class performance during the week (i.e. underclassmen playing at the junior varsity or varsity level, etc.). The ultimate measure of the program's success should be varsity performance (IMHO).

Buchtel has head a great program over the years and we feel fortunate to have them on our 2012 schedule. Best of luck in 2012.
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  #319  
Old 08-09-12, 07:32 PM
Go Eds Go Eds is offline
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Are we really discussing the freshman record last year?

Does it matter who played or didnt play against Buchtel in last years freshman games? Except for maybe two players, no sophomore will ever smell the field against Buchtel. Finotti does not believe in putting guys in the game to get experience. Second team only means you might play if someone gets hurt. If you play football at a powerhouse like Eds your job as a soph and to a large extent as a junior is to prepare the varsity. 9-0 as a frosh is great but it matters very little this year. And if you think Shurmur is going to QB this year just look back at the Fallon/Hilow debacle last year. Finotti wont make the same mistake two years in a row.
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  #320  
Old 08-09-12, 08:22 PM
eaglepride eaglepride is offline
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You may want to hold that thought regarding Shurmur...
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  #321  
Old 08-09-12, 08:29 PM
eaglepride eaglepride is offline
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Considering the enormous amount of talent the eagles returned from the 2010 state championship team and the less than successful season last year, I wouldn't back the coaching staff thus far. In my opinion, they have a lot to prove this year.
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  #322  
Old 08-09-12, 08:46 PM
bigcat68 bigcat68 is offline
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Originally Posted by eaglepride View Post
Considering the enormous amount of talent the eagles returned from the 2010 state championship team and the less than successful season last year, I wouldn't back the coaching staff thus far. In my opinion, they have a lot to prove this year.
I'm glad you brought up this point. Finotti and company had a terrible year in 2009 (though maybe not have necessarily been their fault), great in 2010, and an underachieving year in 2011 IMO. This is an interesting storyline that will develope this year that has been overlooked. Great point ep.
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  #323  
Old 08-09-12, 08:51 PM
dfp51 dfp51 is offline
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Does it matter who played or didnt play against Buchtel in last years freshman games? Except for maybe two players, no sophomore will ever smell the field against Buchtel. Finotti does not believe in putting guys in the game to get experience. Second team only means you might play if someone gets hurt. If you play football at a powerhouse like Eds your job as a soph and to a large extent as a junior is to prepare the varsity. 9-0 as a frosh is great but it matters very little this year. And if you think Shurmur is going to QB this year just look back at the Fallon/Hilow debacle last year. Finotti wont make the same mistake two years in a row.
I don't think anyone believes that Shurmer will start over Fallon. The point I and others were making is that there is tension when a sophomore is second on the depth chart. Do you let the kid play the jv game and risk injury or do you just hold him back in case he has to play in the varsity game?
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  #324  
Old 08-10-12, 06:35 AM
half full half full is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Eds View Post
Does it matter who played or didnt play against Buchtel in last years freshman games? Except for maybe two players, no sophomore will ever smell the field against Buchtel. Finotti does not believe in putting guys in the game to get experience. Second team only means you might play if someone gets hurt. If you play football at a powerhouse like Eds your job as a soph and to a large extent as a junior is to prepare the varsity. 9-0 as a frosh is great but it matters very little this year. And if you think Shurmur is going to QB this year just look back at the Fallon/Hilow debacle last year. Finotti wont make the same mistake two years in a row.
?

Last edited by half full; 09-28-12 at 09:38 AM..
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  #325  
Old 08-10-12, 06:49 AM
Go Eds Go Eds is offline
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I don't think anyone believes that Shurmer will start over Fallon. The point I and others were making is that there is tension when a sophomore is second on the depth chart. Do you let the kid play the jv game and risk injury or do you just hold him back in case he has to play in the varsity game?
Based on what happened last year with King and Blair, who were both second on the varsity depth chart, they dressed every varsity game and played a total of about 4 quarters of JV football. Same was true for Walz as well. There job was to be ready and give the varsity the best look possible during the week. When injuries occured, King even got to play a few games. That being said, I think policy is to hold them back in case they are needed.
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  #326  
Old 08-10-12, 09:02 AM
allworld allworld is offline
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Shaun Crawford......Another Westsider that got away! All the way to Lakewood. Hope he grows because he can be a stud, like he is in track and field. IMO track is the way he should go.
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  #327  
Old 08-10-12, 09:24 AM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
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As I age the memory dims and dims, but what ever became of those three 8th-graders whose choice of a high school was detailed in the PD? They would be juniors or seniors now? Are any of them projected to be starters this year? I ask in the interest of whether high school "stardom" can be projected on to 8th-grade bodies.
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  #328  
Old 08-10-12, 09:49 AM
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http://www.cleveland.com/big-man-on-campus/

Ryan Fallon (starting QB), Kenny Butler (starting RB), Steven Clark (starting DB) are the three that remained at the school. All three are significant players for the Eagles as they enter their senior years. The 4th (Ian Stuart) transfered to Padua after his freshman year at St Edward.
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  #329  
Old 08-10-12, 09:54 AM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
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Well then, I guess future success can be predicted. Kind of blows the heck of a theory I was thinking of proposing. Back to the drawing board.
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  #330  
Old 08-10-12, 10:19 AM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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Ian actually has transferred back to Eds. Wasn't allowed to play any sports last year due to transfer rules and not sure he's planning on playing any this year.

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http://www.cleveland.com/big-man-on-campus/

Ryan Fallon (starting QB), Kenny Butler (starting RB), Steven Clark (starting DB) are the three that remained at the school. All three are significant players for the Eagles as they enter their senior years. The 4th (Ian Stuart) transfered to Padua after his freshman year at St Edward.
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