I would like for folks to post the links directly on this forum to the fee structures so we can all readily see these.
It's all there. OE's club fees, uniforms, etc are all there in black and white for everybody to see. Nothing is hidden. I imagine that CUP's are easily found as are King's/Hammer and everybody else also. Get off of your butt and look them up. Nobody is trying to hide anything from anybody. Maybe they're just trying to hide things from you because they all know that you're a lazy a _ _.
JP please try to be more considerate if you cannot take the time to do some research and post it as listed above maybe you should find another sport. please be prompt tryouts are approaching and many still do not know what to do.
Can anyone think of a more pleasant and considerate person to be involved with this sport?
Hey, I'm just telling it like it is. I checked just to see how easy the information is to find so I went to the Hammer, Kings, Kings-Hammer Academy, CU/CUP, and Ohio Elite websites. I found all information regarding fees and what the fees did and did not include. I also found exactly how much uniforms are on the Ohio Elite website and what the uniform "package" included. All information regarding fees was found in less than two minutes. The CU/CUP website required the most digging for the fees but they are there and not hidden. I was just looking in the wrong place.
My point is that clubs are not trying to hide the information and are being up front with everything prior to tryouts. They're not trying to trick anybody. I didn't bother checking into some of the lesser known clubs like FOSC, Thunder United, etc but I would imagine everything is there to see also.
If I remember correctly, when you initially posted the first version of this thread you hinted that clubs were not being forthcoming in how much it costs to play for them. From what I have been able to tell, the clubs are very open about everything. I personally don't need to have an acounting where every penny is going and I doubt that many others do either. I think that people just want to know what the bottom line is. They don't care how much Joe Blow makes in his role as a trainer. They only care that Joe Blow is doing a good job in training their kid.
I think that people just want to know what the bottom line is. They don't care how much Joe Blow makes in his role as a trainer. They only care that Joe Blow is doing a good job in training their kid.
Exactly my point. I'm not about micro managing my pennies. I'm about getting the best possible situation for my kid. I don't believe the difference between clubs around here is greater then $1000 +/- if doing relatively the same things.
I'm wondering how many former players are in here posting about this? I've been through all this as a player and now as a parent. So YES who's training and the stuff I hear from reliable sources DEFINITELY out weighs the potential cost.
i am hoping cincy and juan you both step back and contact the IRS before you make any decisions. these clubs are hiding something and if you insist on relying on word of mouth and experience and common sense, well i am worried about the outcome.
So JP, was all this information available on the Web for last year's tryouts? Or could it be that the Clubs are now responding to some of the discussion occurring because of this Forum?
Last edited by FollowTheMoney : 05-30-12 at 12:19 PM.
Reason: formatting
Exactly my point. I'm not about micro managing my pennies. I'm about getting the best possible situation for my kid. I don't believe the difference between clubs around here is greater then $1000 +/- if doing relatively the same things.
I'm wondering how many former players are in here posting about this? I've been through all this as a player and now as a parent. So YES who's training and the stuff I hear from reliable sources DEFINITELY out weighs the potential cost.
How do players and parents know who the "reliable sources" are? How do you decide if it's a good trainer and worth the extra money you might pay?
Last edited by FollowTheMoney : 05-30-12 at 12:23 PM.
Reason: spelling error
How do players and parents know who the "reliable sources" are? How do you decide if it's a good trainer and worth the extra money you might pay?
Well in my case, I've played with or against a lot of these guys training now. Which is why I took my son to Hammer. As a referee I've also had the privilege of seeing how a lot of the coaches interact with the kids before, during and after games. So I'm in a very fortunate position. There are maybe one or two people I think I'd have concern of my son playing for. And I'm not even sure they are in Cincinnati. I've seen great things from a lot of the coaches/trainers around here.
Word of mouth just works the same way it does for any business. If you know someone else who's gone through the experience with a company(club) and they have great reviews then that factors into your decision.
As far as good trainers assuming you're coming in blind...read the resumes, do some googling and make some phone calls. See if you can check out a practice. Lot of these clubs run camps and such before tryouts and you can always go check out a practice during a season. It's pretty much known where everyone practices. And results from teams are easy to find at least for State Cups.
I'd factor all those things it BEFORE I went to money. Once I narrowed it down to those two then I'd look at costs...location...practice times...etc.
As for what they are spending their money on..I seriously 100% do not care. If the fees seem to make sense with just a quick glance over I'm fine with it. If we are talking extra thousands of dollars and we are only doing 3 tournaments in a year and 2 of them are local..sure then the alarm would go off.
But I'll agree with JP. I've never had a problem finding out how much I'm giving long before I give it.
Well in my case, I've played with or against a lot of these guys training now. Which is why I took my son to Hammer. As a referee I've also had the privilege of seeing how a lot of the coaches interact with the kids before, during and after games. So I'm in a very fortunate position. There are maybe one or two people I think I'd have concern of my son playing for. And I'm not even sure they are in Cincinnati. I've seen great things from a lot of the coaches/trainers around here.
Word of mouth just works the same way it does for any business. If you know someone else who's gone through the experience with a company(club) and they have great reviews then that factors into your decision.
As far as good trainers assuming you're coming in blind...read the resumes, do some googling and make some phone calls. See if you can check out a practice. Lot of these clubs run camps and such before tryouts and you can always go check out a practice during a season. It's pretty much known where everyone practices. And results from teams are easy to find at least for State Cups.
I'd factor all those things it BEFORE I went to money. Once I narrowed it down to those two then I'd look at costs...location...practice times...etc.
As for what they are spending their money on..I seriously 100% do not care. If the fees seem to make sense with just a quick glance over I'm fine with it. If we are talking extra thousands of dollars and we are only doing 3 tournaments in a year and 2 of them are local..sure then the alarm would go off.
But I'll agree with JP. I've never had a problem finding out how much I'm giving long before I give it.
Sounds like you are well connected and have experience on what to look for. I'd say the majority of us don't know what to look for or how to gauge the trainer's capabilities.
Sounds like you are well connected and have experience on what to look for. I'd say the majority of us don't know what to look for or how to gauge the trainer's capabilities.
Well that's why I left a part for coming in blind.
Go to practices. See how they interact with the kids. See how the kids respond to them. Heck they could be the nicest guys/gals on the planet but if the kids don't respect them they won't get much across.
That's why I maintain a lot of those factors are more important then fees. The fee separation between clubs isn't enough to weigh that heavily. The most important thing is X + Y = A. X=your kid + Y=the trainer/club= A=End result.
Talking to someone who seems very knowledgable on the Girls side and they suggested to look for Clubs that place teams into the State Cup Semi-finals or play ECNL as being the top Clubs to develop and play. With this information I put together a comparison chart of these Clubs and their success at the HS (U15-U18 level):
3 *** State Cup Semi-Finalists or ECNL
CUP could not find fees on website
Galaxies 1250
Kings/Hammer 1550
OE 1600
OP could not find fees on website
2 ** State Cup Semi-Finalists
Blast 1550
CSA could not find fees on website
1 * State Cup Semi-Finalist
Classics 1255
Crew Jrs 1725
FOSC could not find fees on website
There were several Club Fees which could not be located on their website. From this, one could conclude that the typical 2012-2013 Club Fee is around $1500. It could also be suggested that the Crew Juniors is on the expensive side for the results obtained and Galaxies is a very good value for the money.
Fees can certainly be part of the decision, but...
Gas will be a bigger factor than club fees with these choices. Driving from Anderson to northern cinch or Dayton would cost far more than a couple hundred per year and team travel will likely double the cost for these teams.
If a family cannot afford these fees thei are other portions such as thunder, kolping WC and TFA that may offer a good team oppty for less than $1,000 per season.
If your effort is to determine what you receive for the fees, I don't think you can just post what you read on a website. One club you have posted states "typically range between", granted you post the high end - but there are several clubs that this is the "base fee" and then tournaments and other fees are add-ons making these fees much different.
If a club spells out exactly what you receive for the stated fee then I can see posting that info, but many give a price but do not list what that entitles you too.
Since you are putting the effort into this it might help to post the actual links to the respective clubs so users can see what the fee includes, again some just give a range and no real break down. From what I can tell by reading the thread your effort is to determine what you get for the money, correct?
cincyeaglefan, Sorry I might just be overlooking it. This link states what the fee is and how to pay it but does not say what you are paying for, unless I am missing it.
For example - what specific fees cover
U15-U18 Fees are all inclusive except for uniforms (every three years) and optional indoor leagues during the winter months. Fees do include indoor training, all tournaments, coaching salaries, and an 8 week winter sports acceleration program with Sports Speed Inc. and Southview Hospital. **Fees for u15-u18 are subject to change based on rising cost of tournaments and league fees.
It's right there on the page in the player fees category....
Player Fees
- Payment Agreement & Payment Options |DOWNLOAD|
This is a PDF file showing the payment options and details for making payments.
- Premier Program Fees and Due Dates |DOWNLOAD|
This is a PDF file showing the player fees for the Premier Program.
- Competitive Program Fees and Due Dates |DOWNLOAD|
This is a PDF file showing the player fees for the Competitive Program.
Click the download option. Has a spreadsheet of the fees. I didn't want to link a PDF file.
Was this posted prior to Tryouts or after Tryouts last year? So far, I cannot find where CUP has posted their Fees for 2012-2013 and many of Ohio South's Tryouts are underway or finished as of today.
If your effort is to determine what you receive for the fees, I don't think you can just post what you read on a website. One club you have posted states "typically range between", granted you post the high end - but there are several clubs that this is the "base fee" and then tournaments and other fees are add-ons making these fees much different.
If a club spells out exactly what you receive for the stated fee then I can see posting that info, but many give a price but do not list what that entitles you too.
Since you are putting the effort into this it might help to post the actual links to the respective clubs so users can see what the fee includes, again some just give a range and no real break down. From what I can tell by reading the thread your effort is to determine what you get for the money, correct?
Yes, the point is to determine what people get for the money! I was hoping different people on the Forum would post this information for the specific Clubs but JP continued to derail the conversation by suggesting we all do our own research.
It is confusing about what is or is not included in the Fee. That's why it would be good for one Club to set the standard for the others to compare against.
Cincy - Found it in the Powerpoint further above the links you provided. It mentions benefits to the Club and then to the Team of fees paid. For the record I have high regard for CUP so I have no doubt your return on investment is excellent.
i am hoping cincy and juan you both step back and contact the IRS before you make any decisions. these clubs are hiding something and if you insist on relying on word of mouth and experience and common sense, well i am worried about the outcome.
So what is this comment about? Are you accusing these clubs of not following the rules and guidelines of 501 (c) 3. Would you like to back up these accusations? They all follow the rules to a tee, especially those that have been established for many years.
What are they hiding?
Get specific? This is hearsay...
How else does someone make decisions? References, experience, common sense. You take all of the information you have and is available and decide.
All the information is posted, all of it is available at tryouts, including costs. Why are you trying to force the decision process you take (obviously not involving experience, word of mouth or common sense) on others. It seems as though you are trying to destroy the reputations of these clubs and their hard working employees.
hahaha nah not at all heck my tongue is firmly in my cheek come on now i think this whole thread is about pointless. come on man read it again funny you know let the irs pick your club.
hahaha nah not at all heck my tongue is firmly in my cheek come on now i think this whole thread is about pointless. come on man read it again funny you know let the irs pick your club.
So JP, was all this information available on the Web for last year's tryouts? Or could it be that the Clubs are now responding to some of the discussion occurring because of this Forum?
Clubs almost always make the information available prior to tryouts. Just about every club discussed here probably had the information on their website last year also. I don't think making the fees available is a result of the discussion taking place here. If a club doesn't have the info available, a simple email or phone call should yield the information that people are looking for. The clubs have nothing to gain by hiding the information or not making it available. The only possible result that could come from hiding information and not making it known until tryout results are known and offers extended would be angry folks if the fees are out of line.
Be careful with the fees. While some of the fees have been spelled out here, most do not say what is included. Some clubs have one fee that is all inclusive. Other clubs have a club fee and then everything else is "a la carte" depending on tournaments attended, additional training sessions, etc.
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