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  #1  
Old 04-09-12, 04:03 PM
SirStanley SirStanley is offline
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Good article on the Academy/high school soccer decision

http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/sp...y-1356769.html

I really think a compromise arrangement could and should be worked out.
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  #2  
Old 04-09-12, 08:38 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Meh.

The kids will make choices. Nothing wrong with "forcing" them to make a decision. If these DAs are sinking $9,000+ into a player...why not stick with the academy itself?

I am not against this decision from USSF.
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  #3  
Old 04-11-12, 09:01 AM
cincyeaglefan cincyeaglefan is offline
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I'm not against USSF doing this. But I won't blame a kid for taking 3 to 3.5 months out of his DA schedule to play HS ball. Perhaps because when I played I was on a HS team that was always competing for a state championship, but I probably would have done HS ball. I loved it. Loved playing for my school. Loved playing in front of my friends. Heh..loved playing in front of the girls It was just a great place to play atmosphere wise. Loved having my name called out in announcements the next day for the achievements for the team. It's an experience you just don't get in DA ball. Does 3 months really stifle that much development? Who's to say. It's not like they aren't touching the ball at all for 3 months.
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  #4  
Old 04-11-12, 10:01 AM
sig4969 sig4969 is offline
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Until the USSF wakes up and goes the Japan rule... (Only one foreigner per team) then goes back to local teams/local talent. The U.S. will always be a hit or miss on soccer.
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  #5  
Old 04-11-12, 12:14 PM
cincyeaglefan cincyeaglefan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sig4969 View Post
Until the USSF wakes up and goes the Japan rule... (Only one foreigner per team) then goes back to local teams/local talent. The U.S. will always be a hit or miss on soccer.
Why would the 'Japan Rule' be a model for anything the U.S. should be doing? I didn't know Japan was A. producing much talent, and B. winning titles on a national stage. Not trying to be a jerk just curious why that model.
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  #6  
Old 04-12-12, 07:40 AM
soccoachcincy soccoachcincy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyeaglefan View Post
I'm not against USSF doing this. But I won't blame a kid for taking 3 to 3.5 months out of his DA schedule to play HS ball. Perhaps because when I played I was on a HS team that was always competing for a state championship, but I probably would have done HS ball. I loved it. Loved playing for my school. Loved playing in front of my friends. Heh..loved playing in front of the girls It was just a great place to play atmosphere wise. Loved having my name called out in announcements the next day for the achievements for the team. It's an experience you just don't get in DA ball. Does 3 months really stifle that much development? Who's to say. It's not like they aren't touching the ball at all for 3 months.
I agree, but the USSDA model is about improving the National program. They could care less about the touchy-feely emotions with high school soccer... For the top 1%, the USSF is trying to build those emotions towards their academies and their country. Again, the other 99% are welcome to pursue high school state titles. As a high school coach, I believe that the very best players should be challenged to constantly improve.

Three months changes alot in the development of a player... In the four-year development of high school-aged players, that is an entire year away from the academy setting. As a club coach, I always have to de-program my players from the direct nature of the high school season. In Europe, the top 5% go to academies. Very few top-level players play for their high schools.

Last edited by soccoachcincy; 04-12-12 at 09:25 AM..
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  #7  
Old 04-12-12, 07:42 AM
soccoachcincy soccoachcincy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyeaglefan View Post
Why would the 'Japan Rule' be a model for anything the U.S. should be doing? I didn't know Japan was A. producing much talent, and B. winning titles on a national stage. Not trying to be a jerk just curious why that model.
Agreed. How does the "Japan Rule" apply to the US Development Academy system?
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  #8  
Old 04-12-12, 08:42 AM
cincyeaglefan cincyeaglefan is offline
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by soccoachcincy View Post
I agree, but the USSDA model is about improving the National program. They could care less about the touchy-feely emotions with high school soccer... For the top 1%, the USSF is trying to build those emotions towards their academies and their country. Again, the other 99% are welcome to pursue high school state titles. As a high school coach, I believe that the very best players should be challenged to constantly improve.

Three months changes alot in the development of a player... In the four-year development of high school-aged players, that is an entire year away from the academy setting. As a club coach, I always have to de-program my players from the direct nature of the high school season. In Europe, the top 5% go to academies. Very few top-level players play for their highs schools.
I agree with everything you said. And USSoccer should do what's in the best interest of the national program no doubt. I think they are still going to have a dilemma. Just in that article if I remember correctly at least one if not both of the kids they profiled had a tough decision to make on what they wanted to do. I don't think it's that easy to shoo away the impact HS soccer has on your LIFE not just on soccer. Whenever I have flashbacks to playing I end up thinking about big HS games, State Cup games, Regional games and college games. I always go to the HS state final and my college national championship before anything else. I don't know why those memories stick to me but I'm guessing the pride in playing for school outweighed the pride in playing for club.

I think you're right that they really are going to need to inject a sense of national pride into this that will outweigh's high schools. The problem is that in Europe they don't have the other sports that make playing in the HS system as important as we have here. It's a start, but I think it'll be awhile before the decison a kid has to make doesn't become much of a decision at all and they instantly go right to the DA.
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  #9  
Old 04-12-12, 09:24 AM
soccoachcincy soccoachcincy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyeaglefan View Post
I agree with everything you said. And USSoccer should do what's in the best interest of the national program no doubt. I think they are still going to have a dilemma. Just in that article if I remember correctly at least one if not both of the kids they profiled had a tough decision to make on what they wanted to do. I don't think it's that easy to shoo away the impact HS soccer has on your LIFE not just on soccer. Whenever I have flashbacks to playing I end up thinking about big HS games, State Cup games, Regional games and college games. I always go to the HS state final and my college national championship before anything else. I don't know why those memories stick to me but I'm guessing the pride in playing for school outweighed the pride in playing for club.

I think you're right that they really are going to need to inject a sense of national pride into this that will outweigh's high schools. The problem is that in Europe they don't have the other sports that make playing in the HS system as important as we have here. It's a start, but I think it'll be awhile before the decison a kid has to make doesn't become much of a decision at all and they instantly go right to the DA.
Agreed... Here's a quote from Juergen... “When we play the top national teams in the world, we are still in a position where they will have more players than we do competing daily at clubs playing at the highest levels,” Klinsmann said. “This means the odds are still against us consistently beating the top national teams. But, as we recently showed against Italy, we have the capability of winning. And the quality of the players on our national team is improving."
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  #10  
Old 04-12-12, 10:20 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sig4969 View Post
Until the USSF wakes up and goes the Japan rule... (Only one foreigner per team) then goes back to local teams/local talent. The U.S. will always be a hit or miss on soccer.
I nominate this for "Dumb Post of the Year."

It isn't even worth arguing or discussing.


The MLS and US soccer is growing. I will back both 100%.
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  #11  
Old 04-12-12, 04:42 PM
CinSoccerFan CinSoccerFan is offline
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Let's put this in perspective. There are roughly 80 academy programs, with approximately 50-60 players in each program. That's a total of 4800 players in the US.

I don't think high school soccer is going to get hurt by this very small number of players not playing. US Soccer is making a good decision here.
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  #12  
Old 04-12-12, 05:57 PM
SirStanley SirStanley is offline
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I seem to have a minority opinion on this one. Personally, I don't believe top players can't receive equal (and in some ways and cases better) training than they would in an Academy setting in the limited time of a high school season. Anyways, here's another article that just came out (in Washington state). Notes that coaches expect more parity among teams:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highsc...210526205.html
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  #13  
Old 04-13-12, 11:06 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Remember that they don't have scholastic sports in Europe in the sense that we do in the "states" - regardless of sport.
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  #14  
Old 04-14-12, 07:31 PM
cincysoccercoach cincysoccercoach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirStanley View Post
I seem to have a minority opinion on this one. Personally, I don't believe top players can't receive equal (and in some ways and cases better) training than they would in an Academy setting in the limited time of a high school season. Anyways, here's another article that just came out (in Washington state). Notes that coaches expect more parity among teams:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highsc...210526205.html
Unfortunately Sir Stanley, a 10 month development/training program will develop all aspects of their development and allow for a greater concentration of technical, tactical, physical and psychological work. Also Academy players are training against the 1% of the soccer pool so they're going to get better playing against better players. Sorry.
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  #15  
Old 04-15-12, 08:52 AM
Gview Gview is offline
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Are they really getting the to top 1%?

It appears to me that are getting the Top 1% that can afford to get to Columbus for training 4-5 times a week.

I don't have a fix, but the system is broken. Maybe this will eventually turn into a system that works and works well, but I still believe the Academy teams at this point are not the correct solution.
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  #16  
Old 04-16-12, 08:20 AM
soccoachcincy soccoachcincy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gview View Post
Are they really getting the to top 1%?

It appears to me that are getting the Top 1% that can afford to get to Columbus for training 4-5 times a week.

I don't have a fix, but the system is broken. Maybe this will eventually turn into a system that works and works well, but I still believe the Academy teams at this point are not the correct solution.
I agree. Houston Dynamo has set up a residency program... That may be the way the MLS clubs are going.
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  #17  
Old 04-16-12, 04:01 PM
cincyeaglefan cincyeaglefan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soccoachcincy View Post
I agree. Houston Dynamo has set up a residency program... That may be the way the MLS clubs are going.
I think Real Salt Lake has one as well. They have a DA team in Casa Grande, Arizona of all places.

It's a step in the right direction. They will need residency to make it completely work.

Does it affect HS soccer in the long run though? not really. There is still good HS ball being played at some schools and if anything it'll give more parity.
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  #18  
Old 04-18-12, 01:52 PM
Gview Gview is offline
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Another article on the subject:

http://www.socceramerica.com/article...p-too-far.html
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  #19  
Old 04-18-12, 07:13 PM
SirStanley SirStanley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gview View Post
Interesting perspective from someone who has watched soccer's growth since the 60's. His views are harsher than mine, but we arrive at the same place. Good find, Gview. I always enjoy reading Gardner's columns.
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  #20  
Old 04-18-12, 09:06 PM
sig4969 sig4969 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyeaglefan View Post
Why would the 'Japan Rule' be a model for anything the U.S. should be doing? I didn't know Japan was A. producing much talent, and B. winning titles on a national stage. Not trying to be a jerk just curious why that model.
It work in baseball, plus why spent money on players that will play on national team
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  #21  
Old 04-20-12, 07:43 AM
cincyeaglefan cincyeaglefan is offline
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Originally Posted by sig4969 View Post
It work in baseball, plus why spent money on players that will play on national team
I think there are too many different variables in what works in baseball vs what works in soccer to make an apples to apples comparison.
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