Will someone in the know explain how officiating crews are assigned durning the post season? Is this the responsibility of the home team in the first round? Does OHSAA assign crews in later rounds? Thanks
Appreciate the follow-up Mr. O. Are crews selected from one of the game participants conference? I'm trying to determine how familiar officials may be w/ a playoff team? Did they call a regualr season game for one of the teams?
officals need a certain rating to qualify for the playoffs. those ratings are comprised of the coaches votes and other officals votes and some other factors.
Appreciate the follow-up Mr. O. Are crews selected from one of the game participants conference? I'm trying to determine how familiar officials may be w/ a playoff team? Did they call a regualr season game for one of the teams?
Nope, OHSAA makes the crews and sends them wherever they want.
Will someone in the know explain how officiating crews are assigned durning the post season? Is this the responsibility of the home team in the first round? Does OHSAA assign crews in later rounds? Thanks
At the '08 Herbie, I noticed that someone had sprung for six-man crews. Since there are alot fewer games from here on out, it would seem worth the extra bit of money and spring for a side judge, an extra pair of eyes can't hurt.
Actually, the games at Paul Brown Stadium had 7 man crews on the games. It was a requirementof the event organizer.
Don't look for 6 man playoff crews anytime soon.
Even better, guess I missed the back judge. For what it would cost for the playoffs, with the number of games decreasing every week, it seems that going to 6-man crews would not be that much $$$ out of the coffers of the OHSAA and would be well worth it. I bet the coaches would be in favor of it.
Even better, guess I missed the back judge. For what it would cost for the playoffs, with the number of games decreasing every week, it seems that going to 6-man crews would not be that much $$$ out of the coffers of the OHSAA and would be well worth it. I bet the coaches would be in favor of it.
It would cost over $30k in additional game fees and mileage to expand to a 6 man crew.
As I stated earlier, don't look for it to happen anytime soon.
Last edited by AllSports12 : 11-04-09 at 10:51 AM.
Okay, $30k is a nice chunk of change. How about this: 6-man crews for the state semifinals (12 games) and finals (6 games), the three most important games of the year in each division. That's an extra 18 officials, times, how much, maybe $100 per game, that's $1800 in pay. Add in maybe another $100 per man for mileage and expenses, that's another $1800. So, for about $3600, the OHSAA could have 6-man crews for those games, and the kids would have the best of the best. Seems well worth it to me.
OSHAA DOES NOT HAVE CREWS IN PLAY-OFF GAMES. THE OFFICIALS ARE VOTED ON DURING THE SEASON BY COACH'S. THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THEY DO NOT WORK TOGETHER AS A TEAM UNTIL THE DAY OF THE GAME. SOME LOCAL CHAPTERS CALL A TIGHTER GAME THAN OTHER ECT AND STRESS RULES DIFFERENT. HOLDING THAT DOES NOT EFFECT THE PLAY ECT OVER-ALL, THEY DO A GREAT JOB AND OHIO CAN BE PROUD OF THE HAVING THE BEST IN THE BUSINESS
Okay, $30k is a nice chunk of change. How about this: 6-man crews for the state semifinals (12 games) and finals (6 games), the three most important games of the year in each division. That's an extra 18 officials, times, how much, maybe $100 per game, that's $1800 in pay. Add in maybe another $100 per man for mileage and expenses, that's another $1800. So, for about $3600, the OHSAA could have 6-man crews for those games, and the kids would have the best of the best. Seems well worth it to me.
I fully understand where you are coming from.
In my opinion, 5 man crews are now obsolete due to the way the game has changed. Gone, probably forever, are the days of the 75% / 25% ratio run to pass. The last stat I read was that we are at 62% pass / 38% run in HS football. A sixth man would help tremendously. And anybody who has ever worked 7-man knows how much you can cover in the defensive backfield with a Back Judge, Side Judge and a Field Judge.
Waiting until the Semi's and Finals to employ a 6th man, is on the surface, a good idea, but awfully tough implement.
First, the cost would be considerably higher than you estimate. (the game fee expenditure alone is almost double)
Next, it creates a whole different position that virtually no one has worked the entire year. How you select someone to work those games is a problem, and just as a crew gets in their groove, you are changing their mechanics.
If you are placing a greater emphasis on the final two games, it would make more sense to keep the continuity rather than to add an unknown element to the mix.
The other thing the OHSAA will never admit to, is that getting the best officials to work a Saturday playoff game can be especially tough.
The best football officials work both high School and College Football. College football, even on the D3 level pays about 10X more than High School Playoff games. Now a lot of D3 College officials will work a Saturday afternoon College game and a Saturday Night High School game, but the really good officials who work D1 College will seldom work 2 games on a Saturday.
The OHSAA will of course deny all of that. But think about a 60 year old official working 3 games on a weekend, Friday night HS Playoffs, Saturday afternoon College game, and Saturday night HS Playoffs. Are they really at their best on Saturday night?
Good points, Allsports12 and Moozedad. Maybe either of you or some other poster (a ref?) can teach me something here. It seems that if you are a field judge in a 5-man crew, you can be a side judge in a 6-man crew, even with little or no preparation time. You would be the "center fielder" ref, so to speak, a combined side judge/back judge. You pick up X yards past the field judge's responsibility. You get the young but good field judges who are in shape and they become a side judge for a big game. Would the crew mechanics be that difficult? I'm sure I am missing something here.
I guess availability of good officials is something I missed. Thanks.
The other thing the OHSAA will never admit to, is that getting the best officials to work a Saturday playoff game can be especially tough.
The best football officials work both high School and College Football. College football, even on the D3 level pays about 10X more than High School Playoff games. Now a lot of D3 College officials will work a Saturday afternoon College game and a Saturday Night High School game, but the really good officials who work D1 College will seldom work 2 games on a Saturday.
The OHSAA will of course deny all of that. But think about a 60 year old official working 3 games on a weekend, Friday night HS Playoffs, Saturday afternoon College game, and Saturday night HS Playoffs. Are they really at their best on Saturday night?
1) I respectfully disagree with your opinion that the best officials work both High School and College.
There are many, many outstanding High School officials that do not work college football. Working college requires an enormous investment of time. Many of the guys just do not have that time to allocate due to jobs, families, etc....
2) You seem to claim that guys work HS playoffs on Friday night, College ball on Saturday afternoon and HS playoffs on Saturday night. That may happen to an individual on a one-time fill in basis, but it is a very rare ocurrence. You are assigned a specific number of playoff games prior to the tournament. A crew will work one game a week, that's all.
3) As a guy who workd D-3 games for a few years, I'd like to know when they increased the game fees to $1,350 - $1,800 per game. Either that or they dropped the HS playoff fees to less than $20 per game. I know that neither of the above is true.
Last edited by AllSports12 : 11-05-09 at 02:07 PM.
Good points, Allsports12 and Moozedad. Maybe either of you or some other poster (a ref?) can teach me something here. It seems that if you are a field judge in a 5-man crew, you can be a side judge in a 6-man crew, even with little or no preparation time. You would be the "center fielder" ref, so to speak, a combined side judge/back judge. You pick up X yards past the field judge's responsibility. You get the young but good field judges who are in shape and they become a side judge for a big game. Would the crew mechanics be that difficult? I'm sure I am missing something here.
I guess availability of good officials is something I missed. Thanks.
There is no field judge in 5-man mechanics. You are either a Line Judge or a Linesman. In 5-man you have a Back Judge.
In 6-man, the Back Judge is no longer stationed in the center of the field, he as well as the Field Juidge are stationed on opposite sidelines no lees than 15 yards down field from the line of scrimmage.
While on the surface, it may look like a minor change, adding a 6th man to the mix when no one has worked 6-man will cause 4 officials to have new coverage responsibilities under the following situations.
Here's just a partial list of of coverage change..................
-- Coin Toss and Overtime Area of Responsibility
-- Basic Free Kick Area of Responsibility
-- Expanded mechanics on Basic Free Kick Area of Responsibility
-- Short Free Kick Basic Area of Responsibility
-- Try and Field Goal Area of Responsibility
-- Measurements Area of Responsibility
-- Basic Scrimmage Down Area of Responsibility
-- Basic Pass Coverage Area of Responsibility
-- Basic Pass Coverage Area of Responsibility when an offensive shift
requires a switch in keys
-- Basic Pass Coverage Area of Responsibility-Trips
-- Basic Scrimmage Kick Area of Responsibility
-- Goal Line inside the 15 Area of Responsibility
-- Goal Line inside the 5 Area of Responsibility
In short, it changes a whole bunch........ It's tough enough working with sometimes 4 guys you have never met before.
This is the crux of the problem for the OHSAA football playoffs!
I always assume the officiating of the playoffs will be lousy. It usually is.
Why can't the coaches rate the officiating crews instead of individuals, and then have OHSAA hire the best rated crews to work the playoffs?
These crews work together for most of the season and are better as a group than five "highly rated" indviduals who've not worked together.
The coaches have the option of rating a crew as a whole or rating each member individually. There are pros and cons to both. If rated as a crew, each member gets the same rating.
Playoff assignments are determined by your overall rating from the prior year. (not just the coaches rating) Because of the logistics involved in securing the crews for the Friday and Saturday games, the assignments are made generally by the 6th week of the season. If you didn't use the prior years' composite rating, then you would be assigning games based on only 5 weeks of ratings in the current year. (Coaches / AD's and the other folks involved in the selection process have until December to get the fall sports ratings into the OHSAA)
The subject of crews versus individuals is often talked about in the officiating circles. The major downside to this is there is lots of movement from year to year amongst the crews. Injuries, retirements, suspensions, and crew changes are frequent. Using the prior years ratings could create the potential for a crew who was rated highly, to have personnel (rookies ) different from the year before working the playoffs and possibly the championship game.
You don't have a clue about Hawaii.
play-off officiating crews
) different from the year before working the playoffs and possibly the championship game.
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