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-   -   Obama tramples constitution again...forces companies to pay overtime (http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264498)

Tesoro 03-13-14 08:13 AM

Obama tramples constitution again...forces companies to pay overtime
 
President Obama, flexing his executive authority once again, plans to order the Labor Department to expand overtime pay requirements to include millions more workers -- in a move likely to rankle the business community.

The president plans to make the announcement on Thursday at the White House, a senior administration official confirmed to Fox News. Though the administration has claimed previous executive actions had bipartisan support, officials are acknowledging that this particular move will anger business groups and congressional Republicans.







But the announcement would appear to dovetail with Democrats' election-year strategy of focusing on income inequality and the middle class.

The New York Times, citing White House officials briefed on the announcement, first reported that Obama will direct his Labor Department to require overtime pay for millions of workers currently classified as "executive or professional" employees.

The new regulations to the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act reportedly would mandate that businesses provide overtime pay for those who work jobs as varied as fast-food restaurant managers, loan officers, and computer technicians. Currently, businesses are prohibited from denying overtime to a salaried worker making less than $455 per week. The rules that Obama is proposing would increase that salary threshold, though it was not clear by how much.

Conservative groups have warned that Obama's planned change would lead businesses to reduce staff or cut pay.

"There’s no such thing as a free lunch," Cato Institute senior fellow Daniel Mitchell told The Times. "If they push through something to make a certain class of workers more expensive, something will happen to adjust."

However, White House officials said that the changes would result in more money going to workers. "We need to fix the system so folks working hard are getting compensated fairly,” White House Domestic Policy Council Director Cecilia Munoz told the paper. "That’s why we are jump-starting this effort."

The executive action is likely to be viewed as a challenge to congressional Republicans, who have criticized Obama's president’s "pen and phone" strategy to get things done and vowed fight his proposal to raise the federal minimum wage to $10.10 per hour from $7.25.

noonereal 03-13-14 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tesoro (Post 5814271)
President Obama, flexing his executive authority once again, plans to order the Labor Department to expand overtime pay requirements to include millions more workers -- in a move likely to rankle the business community.
.

Awesome!

About time the middle and lower middle class had an advocate in Washington!

fish82 03-13-14 08:27 AM

It's almost like Obie wants the GOP to end up with 60 Senate seats. :laugh:

MOUNT-UNION82 03-13-14 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish82 (Post 5814296)
It's almost like Obie wants the GOP to end up with 60 Senate seats. :laugh:

True.

Obamacare has had the "unintended" (was it unintended?) consequences of forcing many businesses into reducing their workforce to "part time" basis, thus shrinking the take home of the affected employees. But as Obama pointed positively out, now these employees will be free to get several part time jobs.

Forcing companies to pay more, for the same work, will have similar consequences.

Trevor Gta 03-13-14 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOUNT-UNION82 (Post 5814306)
True.

Obamacare has had the "unintended" (was it unintended?) consequences of forcing many businesses into reducing their workforce to "part time" basis, thus shrinking the take home of the affected employees. But as Obama pointed positively out, now these employees will be free to get several part time jobs.

Forcing companies to pay more, for the same work, will have similar consequences.

Companies will just get rid of salaried positions. They will make them hourly and the result will be the exact same as it was before. Or the company will hire in two part timers at an hourly rate.

SWMCinci 03-13-14 08:43 AM

I'm where I am at today because I took the initiative to stay late and make sure that my work was completed as needed or to do the extra thing that added more value to my projects. It also gave me the flexibility to do new things that added experience and responsibility to my job role.

Now, an employer will have to tell someone trying to prove and improve themselves that they can't, that they have to go home. The company can't afford to have employees trying to make things better and to show what they can do.

Obama is destroying the initiative and work ethic that made us the world's superpower. What a failure as a President. He's making Carter look like Washington.

Termite2 03-13-14 12:21 PM

In this particular case, Obama is following the law - FLSA. The definition of manager and hourly has been a grey area for some time; where "managers" do not perform managerial duties and are only classed as managers to avoid paying them OT.
Businesses can always pay them hourly with OT at the minimum wage.

the_big_toe 03-13-14 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Termite2 (Post 5814626)
In this particular case, Obama is following the law - FLSA.

If the rulemaking authority is granted under the statute to the Labor Department, then this is correct. Frankly, that is more of a concern to me than whether or not this particular change is advisable or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Termite2 (Post 5814626)
The definition of manager and hourly has been a grey area for some time; where "managers" do not perform managerial duties and are only classed as managers to avoid paying them OT.
Businesses can always pay them hourly with OT at the minimum wage.

If your original, unedited post was correct (the one where you mention that it would only affect managers making less than $456 a week - or less than $23,712 a year), I would agree. If someone making so little has a title of "manager", then it is likely a title only and the employer is merely trying to avoid the implications of this rule. This appears to be more of closing a loophole than anything to really get all riled up about, IMHO.

Termite2 03-13-14 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_big_toe (Post 5814648)


If your original, unedited post was correct (the one where you mention that it would only affect managers making less than $456 a week - or less than $23,712 a year), I would agree. If someone making so little has a title of "manager", then it is likely a title only and the employer is merely trying to avoid the implications of this rule. This appears to be more of closing a loophole than anything to really get all riled up about, IMHO.



My original post was incorrect, I changed it after reading the actual proposal. It implies that managers making over that amount could be included, but the it also implies that it is directed at the "managers" who are on the lower end of the pay scale.
This has been a grey area for a long time.
Simplistically; the problem is that I give you job as a manger and it should take around 40 hours, you get to decide how to use your time to get the job done and if you decide it take 80 hours a week to perform, than it is on you. . If I give you a job as a manager and tell you that you have to present 80 hours a week, then you are not a manager.

BTW trying to post on Yappi has been hinky for the last month.

noonereal 03-13-14 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWMCinci (Post 5814325)
I'm where I am at today because I took the initiative to stay late and make sure that my work was completed as needed or to do the extra thing that added more value to my projects. It also gave me the flexibility to do new things that added experience and responsibility to my job role.

Now, an employer will have to tell someone trying to prove and improve themselves that they can't, that they have to go home. The company can't afford to have employees trying to make things better and to show what they can do.

Obama is destroying the initiative and work ethic that made us the world's superpower. What a failure as a President. He's making Carter look like Washington.

Get over yourself, this is a really stupid post. The hardest working people I ever saw worked 16 hour days, 6 days a week in the weather, exempt from the minimum wage or virtually any other government protection. It was not some flat slob selling shoes like you who put in 15 extra minutes to suck up to the man.


No employer deserves so much as one extra minute of unpaid time. Let the non working investor who was the recipient of your unpaid effers do an honest days work. You people are so brainwashed. What good sheep.

noonereal 03-13-14 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_big_toe (Post 5814648)
If the rulemaking authority is granted under the statute to the Labor Department, then this is correct. Frankly, that is more of a concern to me than whether or not this particular change is advisable or not.



If your original, unedited post was correct (the one where you mention that it would only affect managers making less than $456 a week - or less than $23,712 a year), I would agree. If someone making so little has a title of "manager", then it is likely a title only and the employer is merely trying to avoid the implications of this rule. This appears to be more of closing a loophole than anything to really get all riled up about, IMHO.


IMHO, the floor for compelling people to work for the investor class profits free of charge should be raised to $250,000.

noonereal 03-13-14 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWMCinci (Post 5814325)
I'm where I am at today because I

whored myself to the man. (the nicest way I could say it)


We should be compelled to become whores. Brilliant!


Sorry, the quoted line just kills me. It's just mind boggling.

Tesoro 03-13-14 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noonereal (Post 5814756)
whored myself to the man. (the nicest way I could say it)


We should be compelled to become whores. Brilliant!


Sorry, the quoted line just kills me. It's just mind boggling.

You're pathetic.

noonereal 03-13-14 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tesoro (Post 5814765)
You're pathetic.

another deep thinker heard from.

This board is filled with them

SWMCinci 03-13-14 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noonereal (Post 5814743)
Get over yourself, this is a really stupid post. The hardest working people I ever saw worked 16 hour days, 6 days a week in the weather, exempt from the minimum wage or virtually any other government protection. It was not some flat slob selling shoes like you who put in 15 extra minutes to suck up to the man.


No employer deserves so much as one extra minute of unpaid time. Let the non working investor who was the recipient of your unpaid effers do an honest days work. You people are so brainwashed. What good sheep.

Explains why you carry a pizz bucket for a shoe salesman doesn't it.... You really are useless to pretty much everyone.

SWMCinci 03-13-14 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noonereal (Post 5814756)
whored myself to the man.

How you got ahead is no business of mine unless I was forced to pay for it. Keep that to yourself, some people may look down on you for that.

Termite2 03-13-14 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noonereal (Post 5814750)
IMHO, the floor for compelling people to work for the investor class profits free of charge should be raised to $250,000.

:laugh: say what?

zeeman 03-13-14 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noonereal (Post 5814743)
Get over yourself, this is a really stupid post. The hardest working people I ever saw worked 16 hour days, 6 days a week in the weather, exempt from the minimum wage or virtually any other government protection. It was not some flat slob selling shoes like you who put in 15 extra minutes to suck up to the man.


No employer deserves so much as one extra minute of unpaid time. Let the non working investor who was the recipient of your unpaid effers do an honest days work. You people are so brainwashed. What good sheep.

You're on Welfare arent you?

noonereal 03-13-14 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWMCinci (Post 5814809)
How you got ahead is no business of mine unless I was forced to pay for it. Keep that to yourself, some people may look down on you for that.

When I contract a service I pay a fair price for the service I contract. Why should others not?

You can't contract someone to perform a job yet demanded they work a set schedule which is what happens and why I support executive order. A true manager works as little or as much as required. There is never an "as little" in an employee /employer relationship. It's always an as much.

Tesoro 03-13-14 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noonereal (Post 5814781)
another deep thinker heard from.

This board is filled with them

We all rise to the level of our competition....I don't even have to get off the couch for you.

creek44 03-13-14 06:03 PM

The conservatives on this forum are sheeple to the rich -- how dare force an employer to actually pay his people for their work!

The liberals on this forum know that the President isn't worried about the 6-figure salary workers or their employers. He's instead just sticking up for the poor guy whose "manager" title is a sad joke for "free labor".

dawg-pound 03-13-14 07:01 PM

I find it ironic that the same people on here who preach about how employers take advantage of workers and that workers should not work one minute of unpaid overtime seem to post at all hours throughout the day and night in the various Yappi forums. From the time stamps of the posts and the frequency I can only assume some of you are surfing the web and posting on Yappi during business hours, on employer owned computers and using your employers internet service or cell phone. If you are employed and posting on here during business hours you are unproductive during normal hours and you should probably consider working overtime at no charge to make up for the wages you are stealing from your employer.

the_big_toe 03-13-14 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creek44 (Post 5815005)
The conservatives on this forum are sheeple to the rich -- how dare force an employer to actually pay his people for their work!

Who said that??? :shrug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by creek44 (Post 5815005)
The liberals on this forum know that the President isn't worried about the 6-figure salary workers or their employers. He's instead just sticking up for the poor guy whose "manager" title is a sad joke for "free labor".

Ah yes, President Obama, friend to the working man. Whose top donors would NEVER include donors interested in protecting the investor class - donors like Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan Chase or Microsoft or Google millionaires, err, I mean Billionaires. And he certainly wouldn't take funds from 6 figure salary people at Time Warner or IBM or GE or (gasp) Morgan Stanley.

Oh ... wait ...

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/co...&cid=n00009638

creek44 03-13-14 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tesoro (Post 5814271)
officials are acknowledging that this particular move will anger business groups and congressional Republicans.

Oh, the sheer horror of it all.

noonereal 03-13-14 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawg-pound (Post 5815050)
I find it ironic that the same people on here who preach about how employers take advantage of workers and that workers should not work one minute of unpaid overtime seem to post at all hours throughout the day and night in the various Yappi forums. From the time stamps of the posts and the frequency I can only assume some of you are surfing the web and posting on Yappi during business hours, on employer owned computers and using your employers internet service or cell phone. If you are employed and posting on here during business hours you are unproductive during normal hours and you should probably consider working overtime at no charge to make up for the wages you are stealing from your employer.


Hey bow wow, maybe we work for ourselves, came up the hard way and understand the vulgaires of systematic capitalism coercion.

noonereal 03-13-14 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creek44 (Post 5815005)
The conservatives on this forum are sheeple to the rich -- .


You can say that again.

I think this is an excellent caricature of Bow wow.

http://www.hermes-press.com/lm5.gif

dawg-pound 03-13-14 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noonereal (Post 5815176)
Hey bow wow, maybe we work for ourselves, came up the hard way and understand the vulgaires of systematic capitalism coercion.

Maybe some do work for themselves but they can't be working too hard based on the Yappi hours that are being logged.

By the way nooner what made you thing my comment was directed at you?

dawg-pound 03-13-14 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noonereal (Post 5815182)
You can say that again.

I think this is an excellent caricature of Bow wow.

http://www.hermes-press.com/lm5.gif

Cute picture nooner.

Now get back to work

creek44 03-13-14 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawg-pound (Post 5815185)
Maybe some do work for themselves but they can't be working too hard based on the Yappi hours that are being logged.

So claims the man with 1200 Yappi posts.

dawg-pound 03-13-14 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creek44 (Post 5815204)
So claims the man with 1200 Yappi posts.

Over the last 6-7 years. I'm not very bright so I will let you do the breakdown on how many per year that is.

The point is that I am not on here whining about how employers take advantage of their employees in overtime pay. I don't often hear of employees offering to give back wages for time they spend on personal non work related activities while at work. It is a hypocritical argument. The employee/employer relationship is a give and take with both giving and both taking.


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