Ohio v Kentucky Basketball

[eta rho]

Could Kentucky be taking over as the state with the better overall talent and TEAMS?

[thehasbeen95]

and you say this because???????

[thehasbeen95]

Oh yeah nice first post with the open ended question which doesn't give us anything

[HoopHound]

Could Kentucky be taking over as the state with the better overall talent and TEAMS?

What teams/players does the Bluegrass State have that would stack up to what Ohio offers this coming season, eta?

Central and SWO appear to be exceptionally strong with a LOT of depth in quality teams.

Kentucky? :shrug:

Don't know unless you tell us!! :)

[eta rho]

I grew up in Ohio watching basketball for many years and recently moved across the river and after attending several KY state tournaments, it just seems to me as if they are passing up Ohio has a better basketball state. The teams seem to be much deeper, better coached, and more athletic. And it has shown when KY and OH teams have met.

There was a similar thread on bluegrasspreps asking the same question so I wanted to see what the Ohio fans thought. There are several teams in Kentucky this year who could come across the river and beat pretty much and team you stack them up against.

Scott Co, Holmes, George Rogers Clark, Elliot Co, and several Louisville teams seem to be loaded with D1 talent this year, especially Scott Co and Holmes.

Scott Co is basically the Derek Smith All Stars for any of you who follow AAU basketball. All 5 of their starters are D1 prospects with 4 of them being underclassmen. (6'8 Dakotah Euton, 6'4 Chad Jackson, 6'3 Ge'Lawn Guyn, and 6'2 Tamron Manning). Not to mention the lone senior is a nice mid major prospect. (6'7 Richie Phares)

Holmes is in the same boat as Scott Co, but with much more athleticism. They made the state championship last year starting 3 sophomores (6'6 Elijah Pittman, 6'5 Ricardo Johnson, 6'5 Jeremiah Johnson..all of whom are guards and receiving high D1 interest) and look to have more talent this year with the recent transfer of another D1 prospect in nky in 6'4 Brandon Housley.

[mayson]

Kentucky is not a better basketball state than Ohio. Period. Ohio, mainly the urban and just outside the city limits of Columbus, Dayton, Cincinnati, and Cleveland areas are VERY strong year in and year out. I mean we've had in Ohio, LeBron James, OJ Mayo, Bill Walker, Jason Collier, Daquan Cook, Romain Sato who are all NBA players...not to mention the large number of kids from Ohio who play division I basketball...

Not to mention the old school guys like Jerry Lucas...


I saw Holmes play at Xavier's team camp with all of their guys and they were around .500....Princeton(Ohio) lost to Centerville (ohio) in the finals...

[mayson]

That 2010 Class According to the National Rivals Top 150 just released:

Ohio

#3 Jared Sullinger
#10 Adreian Payne
#18 Jordan Sibert
#63 Juwan Staten
#135 J.D. Weatherspoon

These guys all play on All-Ohio Red AAU - Which has lost 1 game over the last two years and is the most dominate AAU team in their age group on the circit...

Kentucky
#122 Ge-Lawn Guyn


Rankings aren't everything, but I mean 3 in the top 20??? Thats a 5:1 Ratio...

[bluesteel4]

Kentucky? Please gimme a break..

[HoopHound]

I grew up in Ohio watching basketball for many years and recently moved across the river and after attending several KY state tournaments, it just seems to me as if they are passing up Ohio has a better basketball state. The teams seem to be much deeper, better coached, and more athletic. And it has shown when KY and OH teams have met.

There was a similar thread on bluegrasspreps asking the same question so I wanted to see what the Ohio fans thought. There are several teams in Kentucky this year who could come across the river and beat pretty much and team you stack them up against.

Scott Co, Holmes, George Rogers Clark, Elliot Co, and several Louisville teams seem to be loaded with D1 talent this year, especially Scott Co and Holmes.

Scott Co is basically the Derek Smith All Stars for any of you who follow AAU basketball. All 5 of their starters are D1 prospects with 4 of them being underclassmen. (6'8 Dakotah Euton, 6'4 Chad Jackson, 6'3 Ge'Lawn Guyn, and 6'2 Tamron Manning). Not to mention the lone senior is a nice mid major prospect. (6'7 Richie Phares)

Holmes is in the same boat as Scott Co, but with much more athleticism. They made the state championship last year starting 3 sophomores (6'6 Elijah Pittman, 6'5 Ricardo Johnson, 6'5 Jeremiah Johnson..all of whom are guards and receiving high D1 interest) and look to have more talent this year with the recent transfer of another D1 prospect in nky in 6'4 Brandon Housley.

I think this is a very good thread and should provide some great chances for discussion!! :)

Do any of the teams you mention venture into Ohio for any games?

Also... do the Kentucky teams (especially those you mentioned above) play in some of the same national holiday "classics" that many of the big-time Ohio programs go to?

If we can't argue head-to-head contests, we could at least be able to compare scores against common national opponents. :shrug:

Living in Youngstown and almost on the Pennsylvania border, I certainly know of PA (especially Western PA) programs that could hold their own against many of Ohio's best. No reason not to think that KY teams couldn't do the same.

Ohio has many traditional powers that seem to be at or near the top just about every year. Who are the Kentucky "equals" to Ohio teams like Canton McKinley, Middletown, the GCLS teams, and many lower division Buckeye state teams?

For instance... who has won the most Kentucky state championships?

[eta rho]

Kentucky is not a better basketball state than Ohio. Period. Ohio, mainly the urban and just outside the city limits of Columbus, Dayton, Cincinnati, and Cleveland areas are VERY strong year in and year out. I mean we've had in Ohio, LeBron James, OJ Mayo, Bill Walker, Jason Collier, Daquan Cook, Romain Sato who are all NBA players...not to mention the large number of kids from Ohio who play division I basketball...

Not to mention the old school guys like Jerry Lucas...


I saw Holmes play at Xavier's team camp with all of their guys and they were around .500....Princeton(Ohio) lost to Centerville (ohio) in the finals...

No doubt Ohio has produced some great talent. But I'm talking TEAMS...not players. I think as a whole, Kentucky teams seem to be better overall...not to mention they only have ONE state champion...not 5.

Also when was the Xavier camp that you saw Holmes? I wouldn't put too much stock in to summer ball. I know a lot of times Henley (Holmes coach) plays the younger guys to get them ready cause he likes going deep in his bench.

[eta rho]

That 2010 Class According to the National Rivals Top 150 just released:

Ohio

#3 Jared Sullinger
#10 Adreian Payne
#18 Jordan Sibert
#63 Juwan Staten
#135 J.D. Weatherspoon

These guys all play on All-Ohio Red AAU - Which has lost 1 game over the last two years and is the most dominate AAU team in their age group on the circit...

Kentucky
#122 Ge-Lawn Guyn


Rankings aren't everything, but I mean 3 in the top 20??? Thats a 5:1 Ratio...

If we're talking TEAMS though, those ranking mean nothing. Scott Co, who should be favored to win the state title this year in Kentucky has 3 of the top 5 players on their team for their class which says alot considering one of those players that they're being considered better than is Ricardo Johnson of Holmes who is receiving serious interest from Georgetown. (Hoyas), as well as several other Big East and SEC schools.

6'8 Dakotah Euton has already verballed to UK.
6'4 Chad Jackson is receiving interest from UK, UL, UC, UNC, Xavier, as well as several high mid major programs.
6'3 Ge'Lawn Guyn is getting serious interest from UL and Xavier as well. I personally think Euton and Jackson are better than Guyn though. Both Jackson and Euton play for OBC. (Ohio BAsketball Club)

[eta rho]

I think this is a very good thread and should provide some great chances for discussion!! :)

Do any of the teams you mention venture into Ohio for any games?

Also... do the Kentucky teams (especially those you mentioned above) play in some of the same national holiday "classics" that many of the big-time Ohio programs go to?

If we can't argue head-to-head contests, we could at least be able to compare scores against common national opponents. :shrug:

Living in Youngstown and almost on the Pennsylvania border, I certainly know of PA (especially Western PA) programs that could hold their own against many of Ohio's best. No reason not to think that KY teams couldn't do the same.

Ohio has many traditional powers that seem to be at or near the top just about every year. Who are the Kentucky "equals" to Ohio teams like Canton McKinley, Middletown, the GCLS teams, and many lower division Buckeye state teams?

For instance... who has won the most Kentucky state championships?

Probably the most unbiased post I've seen. But several of the teams I speak of are playing in national tournaments and have played Ohio teams.

(All teams listed below are top 10 Kentucky teams)

Elliot Co plays in the BeachBall classic at Myrtle Beach. (national tournament which draws top talent)

Scott Co is playing in a Daytona Beach Classic which hosts two of the top 10 programs in the nation.

Holmes is playing Largo (MD) who won the class 3A state title last year in a national tournament held at South Laurel High School in Kentucky and UK.

Also many of the Louisville schools play in the LIT (Louisville Invitation Tournament), King of the Bluegrass, and 5/3 Classic which is viewed by many as one of the best tournaments in the nation by experts.

Covcath is one of the best examples as far as head to head though. They usually play a GCL school every year and are considered a top 20 team every year, but arent even the best in their region (That would be Holmes). Their record against Cincy schools over the past 4 years is 4-3.

[eta rho]

Kentucky? Please gimme a break..

The year OJ Mayo was at Huntington with Patrick Patterson wasn't their only loss of the year to the Kentucky State Champion Scott County Cardinals...on Huntington's home floor?? Hmm...I believe so.

Kentucky basketball is better than you're giving them credit for.

[BCI]

Based on team play I tend to doubt Kentucky's best can hang with Ohio top programs say Cleveland St Edwards,Moeller,St X,Columbus Northland.

On a individual talent level it's not even a discussion.Kentucky might have a bumper crop season and produce 2 high major top 100 talents once or twice a decade.

Ohio has been insane with high major HS talent in the past 5 years with the exception of a weak 2009 class.

2008-Kentucky has Scotty Hopson

2008-Ohio BJ Mullens,William Buford,Yancy Gates,Kenny Frease,Delvon Roe,Tom Pritchard.Mullens would have been a likely lottery pick in the 08 draft projected top 5 in 09.

Mayo,Walker,Kousta Koufas,Lebron? Nah man the top talent is not even up for discussion between the 2 states.

Dakotah Euton will not be a top 150 player.Chad Jackson is highly unlikely to attain that level as well.

[HoopHound]

Probably the most unbiased post I've seen. But several of the teams I speak of are playing in national tournaments and have played Ohio teams.

(All teams listed below are top 10 Kentucky teams)

Elliot Co plays in the BeachBall classic at Myrtle Beach. (national tournament which draws top talent)

Scott Co is playing in a Daytona Beach Classic which hosts two of the top 10 programs in the nation.

Holmes is playing Largo (MD) who won the class 3A state title last year in a national tournament held at South Laurel High School in Kentucky and UK.

Also many of the Louisville schools play in the LIT (Louisville Invitation Tournament), King of the Bluegrass, and 5/3 Classic which is viewed by many as one of the best tournaments in the nation by experts.

Covcath is one of the best examples as far as head to head though. They usually play a GCL school every year and are considered a top 20 team every year, but arent even the best in their region (That would be Holmes). Their record against Cincy schools over the past 4 years is 4-3.

I've definitely heard of Covington Catholic. My only question would be...

#1 Are they a "big school"? Meaning, are they comparable to the size of the GCLS schools? You said CovCath plays "a GCL school every year"... but there's a big difference between playing McNicholas or Fenwick than playing Moeller, St. X, or Elder. See what I mean?

Depending on specifically WHO they've played in the GCL... a 4-3 record could be solid (vs Elder, Moe, or X), or so-so (vs some of the GCLers from the North or Central divisions.

I'd also like to study some scores/results from some of the past tournaments and classics you mentioned. I'm fairly familiar with the Myrtle Beach & Daytona ones you mentioned... not-so-much those you cited in the Louisville area.

As mentioned earlier in the thread It would be interesting to compare scores of common opponents of the Ohio & Kentucky teams. :cool:

BTW... isn't there a big high school in Louisville called "Male High School"? I seem to recall a school named Male that had quite a run in national rankings a number of years ago.

Is my memory playing tricks on me?

Probably the most unbiased post I've seen....

Heck... no reason for anybody to be biased. We're just talkin' hoops. Besides, I've got distant-distant relatives on my grandpappy's side down in Cynthiana (none of whom I've ever met). Pappy left there over 100 years ago to seek his fortune in Ohio.

Never know when I'm talkin' to a distant relative when a post comes out of Kentucky. ;)

[eta rho]

Based on team play I tend to doubt Kentucky's best can hang with Ohio top programs say Cleveland St Edwards,Moeller,St X,Columbus Northland.

On a individual talent level it's not even a discussion.Kentucky might have a bumper crop season and produce 2 high major top 100 talents once or twice a decade.

Ohio has been insane with high major HS talent in the past 5 years with the exception of a weak 2009 class.

2008-Kentucky has Scotty Hopson

2008-Ohio BJ Mullens,William Buford,Yancy Gates,Kenny Frease,Delvon Roe,Tom Pritchard.Mullens would have been a likely lottery pick in the 08 draft projected top 5 in 09.

Mayo,Walker,Kousta Koufas,Lebron? Nah man the top talent is not even up for discussion between the 2 states.

Dakotah Euton will not be a top 150 player.Chad Jackson is highly unlikely to attain that level as well.

Here's something to consider though. All of those players named played on different teams outside of Pritchard and Roe so it's much easier for them to earn recognition by putting up big numbers.

Kentucky's top teams are all loaded with talent top to bottom and many of the top players play on the same team so it's harder for them to receive the same recogntion as the Ohio teams who have one man shows. The numbers speak for themselves. Look at GCL teams record against Covcath over the last 5 years, and you'll find out it's not as good as you think. CCH isn't even a top 10 team in KY.

I can bet if you send Scott Co, Holmes, Elliot Co, GRC (has Uk commit Vinny Zollo now...ring a bell??...he was in Ohio last year but came to KY to face better competition), or several of the Louisville powers (Manual, J'town, Eastern, Ballard) it would be a lot more even than you think.

Both Holmes and Scott Co this year would beat pretty much anyone in Cincy that you stack them up against. Holmes ended the year last year ranked 9th in the midwest region (Ohio included) and that was with starting 3 sophomores who are back this year. Returning 3 starters and 3 other kids who contributed from a team who went 34-3 as well as a group of freshman and jv kids who were a combined 45-1 is no joke.

And OJ Mayo? I believe he's a KY talent my friend...attended Rose Hill Christian in Ashland, KY until his freshman year, then North College Hill was LUCKY enough to receive his services for two years.

[eta rho]

I've definitely heard of Covington Catholic. My only question would be...

#1 Are they a "big school"? Meaning, are they comparable to the size of the GCLS schools? You said CovCath plays "a GCL school every year"... but there's a big difference between playing McNicholas or Fenwick than playing Moeller, St. X, or Elder. See what I mean?

Depending on specifically WHO they've played in the GCL... a 4-3 record could be solid (vs Elder, Moe, or X), or so-so (vs some of the GCLers from the North or Central divisions.

I'd also like to study some scores/results from some of the past tournaments and classics you mentioned. I'm fairly familiar with the Myrtle Beach & Daytona ones you mentioned... not-so-much those you cited in the Louisville area.

As mentioned earlier in the thread It would be interesting to compare scores of common opponents of the Ohio & Kentucky teams. :cool:

BTW... isn't there a big high school in Louisville called "Male High School"? I seem to recall a school named Male that had quite a run in national rankings a number of years ago.

Is my memory playing tricks on me?



Heck... no reason for anybody to be biased. We're just talkin' hoops. Besides, I've got distant-distant relatives on my grandpappy's side down in Cynthiana (none of whom I've ever met).

Never know when I'm talkin' to a distant relative when a post comes out of Kentucky. ;)


CCH isn't considered a big school over here. They have probably in the neighborhood of 500 students, give or take some.

CCH record against Ohio teams the past 5 years:

07/08
Covcath 51 Cincy Oak Hills 33

06/07
Covcath 44 Cincy St X 46 (CCH didnt make it out of their region this year..lost to Holmes in the finals by 12)

05/06
Covcath 77 Cincy Oak Hills 55
Covcath 51 Cincy Elder 67 @ Elder

04/05
Covcath 61 Cincy Elder 54 @ Cintas Center

If we're talkin the GCL as a whole against Ky's top teams, its no contest. Kentucky's top teams would beat the GCL top team every year. Covcath doesn't have the athleticism or size that some of the other teams like Holmes, Scott Co, and the Louisville schools possess.

Also Male had a good run in the early 2000's when Mike Bush (current Oakland Raider) was there.

[HoopHound]

...Holmes ended the year last year ranked 9th in the midwest region (Ohio included) and that was with starting 3 sophomores who are back this year. Returning 3 starters and 3 other kids who contributed from a team who went 34-3 as well as a group of freshman and jv kids who were a combined 45-1 is no joke...

My only reaction to that is... WOW!!!

...And OJ Mayo? I believe he's a KY talent my friend...attended Rose Hill Christian in Ashland, KY until his freshman year, then North College Hill was LUCKY enough to receive his services for two years.

Define "LUCKY", eta. :blush:

Lot's of folks in here never took too much pleasure in the media driven three-ring circus that the Mayo years represented for Ohio basketball. He was certainly a GREAT player... but the reputations sacrificed during that period may or may not have been worth the state crowns brought to NCH. :angel:

[eta rho]

My only reaction to that is... WOW!!!



Define "LUCKY", eta. :blush:

Lot's of folks in here never took too much pleasure in the media driven three-ring circus that the Mayo years represented for Ohio basketball. He was certainly a GREAT player... but the reputations sacrificed during that period may or may not have been worth the state crowns brought to NCH. :angel:

Wow is what I thought as well when I realized what Holmes had accomplised. To have a program go 34-3 at the varsity level and make it to the state championship starting 3 sophs, a jv team (without any juniors or the top 3 sophomores playing) go 25-1, and a freshman team go 20-0 is just unheard of. 79-4 as a whole program freshman through varsity last year.


As far as Oj Mayo I agree he did bring a media circus along with him. I was referring to the state titles and putting NCH on the map when I said Lucky.

[eta rho]

Also here is a look at Kentucky's top 5 teams record against national (or national ranked) competition last year: 24-11

(Going in order by final ranking before post season play)

#1 Bryan Station- 4-0
(Won Daytona Beach Sunshine Classic)
W-Knoxville Catholic, TN Grand Bahama Catholic, FL Three Rivers, Canada Chestatee, GA

#2 Mason County 6-1
(State champs last year finished #24 in nation)
W-Christ Pres. Acad.,TN Leilehua, HI #78 Mt Vernon, NY Lolani, HI Atlanta Centennial, GA. #62 Covington Holmes, KY
L- #20 Rice, NY 59-48 (led by Kemba Walker of UConn)

#3 Lexington Catholic- 7-2
(State Semi Finalist finished #65 in nation)
W- #25 Chicago Simeon, IL Chicago Whitney Young, IL Meadows, NV Deluman, Switzerland White County, TN Calvary Baptist, NC Modesto, Christian, CA
L- #41 Boyd Anderson, FL 68-66 #62 Covington Holmes, KY 57-48

#4 Scott Co- 6-7
W- Dunbar, FL Hales Franciscan, Chicago, IL New Hope, MS Socastee, SC Gainesville, FL Stone Mountain, GA
L- Chicago Whitney Young, IL Cincy Withrow, OH Chester, PA #29 Taft, CA #10 Duncanville, TX Dunwoody, GA

#5 Holmes- 1-1
(Lost in State Championship finished #62 in nation)
W- #65 Lexington Catholic (57-48 state semi finals)
L- #24 Mason County (59-48 state finals)

[D-Swizzel102]

07/08
Covcath 51 Cincy Oak Hills 33

06/07
Covcath 44 Cincy St X 46 (CCH didnt make it out of their region this year..lost to Holmes in the finals by 12)


1) Oak Hills is nothing to get too excited about.
2) That St. X team finished last in the GCL that season. They didn't get hot until they hit the tourney, and then made a cinderella run to the finals.
3) The GCL routinely plays in out of state tournament featuring the top teams in the country, and either win them, or advance very far. See Moeller in the Bojangles' Tourney last season. To say that there's no way they'd compete with Kentucky's "big boys" shows that you are one of the many that underestimate the GCL. Asks Yancy Gates or Chris Wright how tough the GCL is. I doubt they underestimate it now...

[Coach Vic]

If we're talking TEAMS though, those ranking mean nothing. Scott Co, who should be favored to win the state title this year in Kentucky has 3 of the top 5 players on their team for their class which says alot considering one of those players that they're being considered better than is Ricardo Johnson of Holmes who is receiving serious interest from Georgetown. (Hoyas), as well as several other Big East and SEC schools.

6'8 Dakotah Euton has already verballed to UK.
6'4 Chad Jackson is receiving interest from UK, UL, UC, UNC, Xavier, as well as several high mid major programs.
6'3 Ge'Lawn Guyn is getting serious interest from UL and Xavier as well. I personally think Euton and Jackson are better than Guyn though. Both Jackson and Euton play for OBC. (Ohio BAsketball Club)

I have watched Euton and Jackson play. Both very nice. Sullinger and Weatherspoon both play on the same AAU team back to back National Champion (All Ohio Red 16U) and both play for the same high school. While Georgetown may be considering Ricardo Johnson, Sullinger could have gone anywhere he wanted. Anywhere! Georgetown, Duke, N. Carolina, Florida would make him a top priority if he had not verballed early to Ohio State. While I respect the talent and the achievements of the teams that you have spoken of I find it extremely difficult to say that Kentucky has better teams than Ohio. These types of discussions can really only be settled on the court. I know that I will enjoy seeing some Kentucky basketball when we play at the Marshall Co Hoopfest this year. Good luck with your basketball should be a great year.

[mikeinclifton]

Over the last few years, Covington (KY) Catholic's coach Mike Listerman has put together the Bluegrass Buckeye Charity Classic which puts OH teams vs KY teams.

I hear they are doing it again this year, but no details/teams have been announced yet.

[eta rho]

Over the last few years, Covington (KY) Catholic's coach Mike Listerman has put together the Bluegrass Buckeye Charity Classic which puts OH teams vs KY teams.

I hear they are doing it again this year, but no details/teams have been announced yet.

Its usually catholic/private schools who compete in it. St Henry will play Cincy Oak Hills I believe and Covcath, for whatever reason, is playin Highlands.

[eta rho]

1) Oak Hills is nothing to get too excited about.
2) That St. X team finished last in the GCL that season. They didn't get hot until they hit the tourney, and then made a cinderella run to the finals.
3) The GCL routinely plays in out of state tournament featuring the top teams in the country, and either win them, or advance very far. See Moeller in the Bojangles' Tourney last season. To say that there's no way they'd compete with Kentucky's "big boys" shows that you are one of the many that underestimate the GCL. Asks Yancy Gates or Chris Wright how tough the GCL is. I doubt they underestimate it now...

St X would also be considered a larger school than CCH. My point is if they played a team with the athleticism of a Holmes or Scott Co you'd quickly see that there's a tremendous difference between playing CCH and Holmes or Scott co.

And the Kentucky powers in the Lexington/Louisville area generally play in nationally recognized tournaments as well. Scott Co is a prime example. They played in the Bank of America City of Palms Classic last year which featured 4 top 10 teams. (St Benedicts, NJ Chester, PA Woodland Hills Taft, CA as well as Duncanville, TX). Scott Co made it to the semi finals of this tournament.

Mason CO (ky state champ) also played in the Lolani Classic in Hawaii which featured #20 Rice, NY and #78 Mt Vernon, NY. Mason Co finished runner up in this tournament.

Lexington Bryan Station playing in the Daytona Beach Classic and went 4-0 and won it.

[eta rho]

I have watched Euton and Jackson play. Both very nice. Sullinger and Weatherspoon both play on the same AAU team back to back National Champion (All Ohio Red 16U) and both play for the same high school. While Georgetown may be considering Ricardo Johnson, Sullinger could have gone anywhere he wanted. Anywhere! Georgetown, Duke, N. Carolina, Florida would make him a top priority if he had not verballed early to Ohio State. While I respect the talent and the achievements of the teams that you have spoken of I find it extremely difficult to say that Kentucky has better teams than Ohio. These types of discussions can really only be settled on the court. I know that I will enjoy seeing some Kentucky basketball when we play at the Marshall Co Hoopfest this year. Good luck with your basketball should be a great year.

I agree that discussions can only be settled on the court. But until the top teams from each state start scheduling eachother, rather than going to national tournaments, we'll never know.

With Covington Holmes being so close to Cincy, I don't understand why their coach doesn't schedule more teams over there. There are a lot of teams who would give them better games than some of the nky teams they play.

I think over the next two years it'd be nice to see Holmes take on one of the Cincy powers such as Moe, X, or Elder. I know a few years ago when they played the OJ, Bill Walker NCH team, it drew a lot of hype around nky.

[hsfanOnRC]

Welcome aboard eta rho. I read the BGP all the time when the Guru doesn't close it to outsiders with his message "No one buy the cow when the milk is free". LOL! I try and keep an eye out for those mountain teams (Bell County, Mboro, Corbin). I've been to several Bell County playoff games over the years because we go down there around Vet's Day or Turkey Day.

Discussing Ky basketball versus Ohio basketball is quite interesting. Especially since Ky allows middle school players to play on the HS teams.

Yeah I don't know why Ky and Ohio don't schedule more games together. It's not like football where you have to qualify. They all go to the tourney, so why not go against the best competition during the year?:shrug:

[eta rho]

Welcome aboard eta rho. I read the BGP all the time when the Guru doesn't close it to outsiders with his message "No one buy the cow when the milk is free". LOL! I try and keep an eye out for those mountain teams (Bell County, Mboro, Corbin). I've been to several Bell County playoff games over the years because we go down there around Vet's Day or Turkey Day.

Discussing Ky basketball versus Ohio basketball is quite interesting. Especially since Ky allows middle school players to play on the HS teams.

Yeah I don't know why Ky and Ohio don't schedule more games together. It's not like football where you have to qualify. They all go to the tourney, so why not go against the best competition during the year?:shrug:

There's really only a few mountain teams who are able to compete with the bigger metro schools in nky and louisville. But I think allowing middle school players to play up is a good thing...makes them that much more experienced when they get to that level.

I know Holmes had an 8th grader and two freshman on their varsity roster this past year who saw minutes.

I have to think that Ohio doesn't schedule Kentucky or vice versa because they feel it doesn't accomplish anything but with Cincy and NKY both having very strong teams, you'd think they'd want to schedule some out of state competition that are state title contenders, but also within a 50 mile radius.

I'd really like to see Scott Co, Holmes, George Rogers Clark, and some of the Louisville schools play some GCL teams.

[Prepfan2008]

St X would also be considered a larger school than CCH. My point is if they played a team with the athleticism of a Holmes or Scott Co you'd quickly see that there's a tremendous difference between playing CCH and Holmes or Scott co.

And the Kentucky powers in the Lexington/Louisville area generally play in nationally recognized tournaments as well. Scott Co is a prime example. They played in the Bank of America City of Palms Classic last year which featured 4 top 10 teams. (St Benedicts, NJ Chester, PA Woodland Hills Taft, CA as well as Duncanville, TX). Scott Co made it to the semi finals of this tournament.

Mason CO (ky state champ) also played in the Lolani Classic in Hawaii which featured #20 Rice, NY and #78 Mt Vernon, NY. Mason Co finished runner up in this tournament.

Lexington Bryan Station playing in the Daytona Beach Classic and went 4-0 and won it.


Moeller played in the Bojangles Classic in Charlotte North Carolina last year which featured St. Benedicts(#1 in country at time), Lincoln New York(Top 15 in country), South Atlanta (Top 25 team and featured top junior Derek Favors), Jeanette Pennsylvania, and Miller Grove Georgia among other teams.

Moeller beat Miller Grove and Lincoln New York before losing a close game to St. Benedicts in the finals.

[Prepfan2008]

Your crazy if you think GCL can't play with Kentucky powers.

[BCI]

Im not particularly informed year in and year out on the top high school programs in Kentucky to make a definite statment but on AAU talent Ohio is miles and miles ahead in talent.

Chane Behanan was far and away the top player prospect in the OBC program last summer that includes 15U-17U.Im not a big Dakotah Euton fan way way too slow.Chad Jackson with a improved jumper has a chance to go high major.The Johnson kid from Holmes that was playing with QCP's 16U is a pretty nice talent probably a mid major plus prospect.

Holmes I would say can probably can compete with any of the top CPS Public schools for the next few season's Aiken in particular.Against the top tier in the GCL? I wont go that far.


Does Kentucky have a program that has produced players like Steve Logan,Sam Clancy,Jawad Williams,Delvon Roe as Cleveland St Edwards has?Honestly I have no idea. Aside from that the GCL is among the top conference in the country in both basketball and football.They have proven that time and time again both regionally and nationally.

[mikeinclifton]

Using last seasons KY Sweet 16 stats (http://www.cybersportsusa.com/statBB_LeadersMedia.asp?tc_id=2004&seas_id=2007) page as a reference, I can say I've seen (in order of talent) Darius Miller, Scotty Hopson, Vee Sanford, Arrez Henderson and Ethan Faulkner.

All are these KY players are very good, but on balance Ohio has more talent across the spectrum. OH is a bit light in 2009 but in the 2010 and 2011 classes they have a ton of talent.

(tip: Sanford may end up #1 when folks look back on this KY class in a few years)

[D-Swizzel102]

Are the large private schools in KY (like Trinity, St. X, etc.) state title contenders year-in and year-out like they seem to be in Ohio (Ed's, Moeller, St. X, etc.) or do the large publics tend to dominate down there?

[eta rho]

Are the large private schools in KY (like Trinity, St. X, etc.) state title contenders year-in and year-out like they seem to be in Ohio (Ed's, Moeller, St. X, etc.) or do the large publics tend to dominate down there?

The large public schools tend to dominate down here in Kentucky. The only large private school that is a contender year in and year out would be Lexington Catholic. They currently have probably one of the top 3 players in the state in Vee Sanford. Look for his name this year..you'll be hearing a lot about him. Guarantee it.

[eta rho]

Using last seasons KY Sweet 16 stats (http://www.cybersportsusa.com/statBB_LeadersMedia.asp?tc_id=2004&seas_id=2007) page as a reference, I can say I've seen (in order of talent) Darius Miller, Scotty Hopson, Vee Sanford, Arrez Henderson and Ethan Faulkner.

All are these KY players are very good, but on balance Ohio has more talent across the spectrum. OH is a bit light in 2009 but in the 2010 and 2011 classes they have a ton of talent.

(tip: Sanford may end up #1 when folks look back on this KY class in a few years)

If you look at the stats page, two names to watch these next two years are Ricardo Johnson and Elijah Pittman of Holmes. Pittman as a soph was either the second or third most productive player in the tournament.

[eta rho]

Im not particularly informed year in and year out on the top high school programs in Kentucky to make a definite statment but on AAU talent Ohio is miles and miles ahead in talent.

Chane Behanan was far and away the top player prospect in the OBC program last summer that includes 15U-17U.Im not a big Dakotah Euton fan way way too slow.Chad Jackson with a improved jumper has a chance to go high major.The Johnson kid from Holmes that was playing with QCP's 16U is a pretty nice talent probably a mid major plus prospect.

Holmes I would say can probably can compete with any of the top CPS Public schools for the next few season's Aiken in particular.Against the top tier in the GCL? I wont go that far.


Does Kentucky have a program that has produced players like Steve Logan,Sam Clancy,Jawad Williams,Delvon Roe as Cleveland St Edwards has?Honestly I have no idea. Aside from that the GCL is among the top conference in the country in both basketball and football.They have proven that time and time again both regionally and nationally.

I wouldn't say Ohio is miles and miles away from KY on the AAU scene. Kentucky's best player or two usually play for the big Ohio team. (Jackson and Euton this past year.) Also the Derek Smith All Stars 17-U and Kentucky Patriots 16-U are nationally recognized programs. If I'm not mistaken the Patriots at nationals this year either made it to the semi's or championship. Let's also not forget about the young N.K.Y TarHeels who produced a few national championships in the past ten years.

As far as your assessment on Euton, I tend to agree. Good high school player, but IMO when kids catch up to his size, his lack of speed will hurt him. He's not good enough to play SEC ball IMO but the kid keeps producing so not much you can say. I personally think Chad Jackson is a nicer prospect than him. Ricardo Johnson of Holmes is an absolute stud and already has high D1 teams looking at him but IMO he may not even be the best player on his team these next two years. Elijah Pittman (6'6 Jr G) will end up being around 6'8 when finished growing. He's good enough to defend the other teams big man and offensively spot up for a three or take the rock to the hole.

And Holmes can't compete with the top tier of the GCL? I think you may want to watch them this year cause you're sadly mistaken. If Covcath can, then Holmes definetly can. Holmes has played Cincy public schools in the past like Aiken and ran them off the floor both times. In the past 4 years Holmes has won 3 region titles, Made 2 state semi final appearances, and 1 state championship appearance. And this year and next year's team are probably better than that state title team. No team would blow them out. I guarantee that.

[BCI]

In your opinion how good our those 2 Holmes kids? Among the top 2 prospects in the state?

I only have seen a little bit of Ricardo Johnson playing with QCP this summer.What's the likely projected height on both? Thanks in advance.

[eta rho]

Does Kentucky have a program that has produced players like Steve Logan,Sam Clancy,Jawad Williams,Delvon Roe as Cleveland St Edwards has?Honestly I have no idea. Aside from that the GCL is among the top conference in the country in both basketball and football.They have proven that time and time again both regionally and nationally.

Usually the top 5 programs in Kentucky produce D1 players year in and year out. Here's a look at who has gone since 2000:

c/o 2008
Darius Miller (Mason Co to UK)
Scotty Hopson (University Heights to Tennessee)
Shelvin Mack (Lex. Bryan Station to Butler)
Arrez Henderson (Covington Holmes to Louisiana Tech)
Michael Sparks (Lex. Tates Creek to V.M.I)
Taylor Stewart (Lex Catholic to Air Force)
Nic Simpson (Highlands to North Carolina State)

Others since 2002:

Mike Bush (l'ville Male to Louisville..2 sport athlete...to Oakland Raiders)
Rajon Rondo (L'ville Eastern to UK to Boston Celtics)
Chris Lofton (Mason Co to Tennessee to Euro Pro Ball)
Oj Mayo (Ashland Rose Hill Christian...left after freshman year)
Bill Walker (see OJ Mayo)
Devan Downey (L'ville Jeffersontown to UC to South Carolina)
Justin Doellman (Ryle to Xavier)
Ross Neltner (Highlands to Vanderbilt)
Austin Hill (Covington Holmes to Marquette)
Mark Krebs (Newport Central Catholic to UK)
Brennan Votel (Covington Catholic to Penn)

I could keep going on, but you get the point.

[eta rho]

In your opinion how good our those 2 Holmes kids? Among the top 2 prospects in the state?

I only have seen a little bit of Ricardo Johnson playing with QCP this summer.What's the likely projected height on both? Thanks in advance.

The number 1 prospect in Kentucky for the c/o 2010 is Aaron Cosby of Lousiville Manual. He is a stud.

As far as Johnson and Pittman of Holmes, I'd say they are top 5 in the state and high D1 caliber players. Many believe Johnson will be the most heavily recruited for his class because at 6'5 he can play any position on the floor. I don't see him getting any taller than 6'6 but Pittman still has room for growth. His dad is 6'8 and Pittman was a legit 6'6 as a soph, so no reason to believe he won't grow over the next two years. Pittman just needs to work on his maturity and hit the weight room a little harder which he's done this past summer. One thing Pittman has though is that at 6'6 he can play as a guard which is very rare at the high school level.

If I had to pick a top 10 for the c/o 2010:

1. Aaron Cosby 6'4 G Louisville Manual
2. Josh Sewell 6'3 G Louisville Trinity
3. Ricardo Johnson 6'5 G Covington Holmes
4. Elijah Pittman 6'6 G Covington Holmes
5. Chad Jackson 6'4 G Scott Co
6. Ge'Lawn Guyn 6'2 G Scott Co
7. Dakotah Euton 6'8 F/C Scott Co
8. Shaq Wilson 6'4 G Christian Co
9. Jeremiah Johnson 6'5 G Covington Holmes (twin brother of Ricardo)
10. Several players who could come be inserted here.

[mikeinclifton]

Usually the top 5 programs in Kentucky produce D1 players year in and year out. Here's a look at who has gone since 2000:

c/o 2008
Nic Simpson (Highlands to North Carolina State)

Others since 2002:
Austin Hill (Covington Holmes to Marquette)


Simpson is going to NC A&T.
Do you have a link saying that Hill was going to Marquette? I was unable to find one.

[mayson]

If we're talking TEAMS though, those ranking mean nothing. Scott Co, who should be favored to win the state title this year in Kentucky has 3 of the top 5 players on their team for their class which says alot considering one of those players that they're being considered better than is Ricardo Johnson of Holmes who is receiving serious interest from Georgetown. (Hoyas), as well as several other Big East and SEC schools.

6'8 Dakotah Euton has already verballed to UK.
6'4 Chad Jackson is receiving interest from UK, UL, UC, UNC, Xavier, as well as several high mid major programs.
6'3 Ge'Lawn Guyn is getting serious interest from UL and Xavier as well. I personally think Euton and Jackson are better than Guyn though. Both Jackson and Euton play for OBC. (Ohio BAsketball Club)

Mark words Euton is not that good and don't be surprised if he doesn't end up at UK...Chad Jackson is also not as good as advertised. Guyn has improved and is a guy who is getting big time looks...I can tell you this, none of those guys are good enough, right now, to play for Xavier.

[Past My Prime]

And OJ Mayo? I believe he's a KY talent my friend...attended Rose Hill Christian in Ashland, KY until his freshman year, then North College Hill was LUCKY enough to receive his services for two years.

Actually he is not from Kentucky at all and never lived there. He played at Rose Hill for 2 years while living in the Huntington/South Point area. Both of his siblings lived and played at South Point High School. Rose Hill was LUCKY enough to receive his services for 2 years. He went there ONLY because he could play varsity as a junior high kid and dominate the state until he was old enough to play high school ball in Ohio.

[eta rho]

The bottom line is Ohio has more metropolitan areas (Dayton, Cincy, Columbus, Cleveland, Akron, Toledo, etc.), where as KY has two really large population bases, Lexington-Fayette and Louisville-Jefferson.

One could also include the ever-growing Northern KY area as well in this debate, but in reality Ohio schools have a larger population base to draw higher caliber athletes from. Year in year out Ohio just has better athletes overall, but that doesn't mean some of Kentucky's better teams can't compete. What Billy Hick's has "built" at Scott County is a program that can be looked at as a top-notch program not only in the bluegrass, but the nation. Holmes is another program on it's way to national prominence. 3 state appearances in 4 years and back to back semi final appearances with a state title appearance and that tradition should continue with a very talented junior class led this year by top prospects 6'5 Ricardo and JEremiah Johnson and 6'6 Elijah Pittman as well as a sophomore class that includes 6'7 Kevon Arnold and 6'6 Zion Herndon.

Ohio doesn't seem to have the top-notch long-term programs in basketball like they do in football that draw national recognition for the long haul. That might be the one thing that KY may have on the neighbors up north across the river.

[hsfanOnRC]

There's really only a few mountain teams who are able to compete with the bigger metro schools in nky and louisville. But I think allowing middle school players to play up is a good thing...makes them that much more experienced when they get to that level.

I know Holmes had an 8th grader and two freshman on their varsity roster this past year who saw minutes.

I have to think that Ohio doesn't schedule Kentucky or vice versa because they feel it doesn't accomplish anything but with Cincy and NKY both having very strong teams, you'd think they'd want to schedule some out of state competition that are state title contenders, but also within a 50 mile radius.

I'd really like to see Scott Co, Holmes, George Rogers Clark, and some of the Louisville schools play some GCL teams.

I would like to see that too. Maybe someone will get that going and have a Ohio/Ky games like they do in football. It just seems odd that they play each other in football but not basketball. I think Oh and Ky would both benefit from it.

[mikeinclifton]

Maybe someone will get that going and have a Ohio/Ky games like they do in football. It just seems odd that they play each other in football but not basketball. I think Oh and Ky would both benefit from it.

Make sure you read the whole thread. . . . (http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3226694#post3226694)

[HoopHound]

Make sure you read the whole thread. . . . (http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3226694#post3226694)

Don't be grumpy, mike. ;)

[Prepfan2008]

The bottom line is Ohio has more metropolitan areas (Dayton, Cincy, Columbus, Cleveland, Akron, Toledo, etc.), where as KY has two really large population bases, Lexington-Fayette and Louisville-Jefferson.

One could also include the ever-growing Northern KY area as well in this debate, but in reality Ohio schools have a larger population base to draw higher caliber athletes from. Year in year out Ohio just has better athletes overall, but that doesn't mean some of Kentucky's better teams can't compete. What Billy Hick's has "built" at Scott County is a program that can be looked at as a top-notch program not only in the bluegrass, but the nation. Holmes is another program on it's way to national prominence. 3 state appearances in 4 years and back to back semi final appearances with a state title appearance and that tradition should continue with a very talented junior class led this year by top prospects 6'5 Ricardo and JEremiah Johnson and 6'6 Elijah Pittman as well as a sophomore class that includes 6'7 Kevon Arnold and 6'6 Zion Herndon.

Ohio doesn't seem to have the top-notch long-term programs in basketball like they do in football that draw national recognition for the long haul. That might be the one thing that KY may have on the neighbors up north across the river.

Ohio doesnt have a team with national recognition because of the parity in Ohio basketball. It is just so tough to win a state title especially going through a region like Cincinnati dayton region where there are just so many tough teams. Where as in Kentucky a few of the top teams are just dominating because there just are not that many quality teams.

[hsfanOnRC]

Make sure you read the whole thread. . . . (http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3226694#post3226694)

Maybe I should have been more clear in satating that they should have a Holiday Tourney or something like that so more Oh teams could play more Ky teams. Is that better mikeinclifton? Geez! :wallbang: :stirthepot:

[HoopHound]

Let's play nice.

[eta rho]

Ohio doesnt have a team with national recognition because of the parity in Ohio basketball. It is just so tough to win a state title especially going through a region like Cincinnati dayton region where there are just so many tough teams. Where as in Kentucky a few of the top teams are just dominating because there just are not that many quality teams.

I was talking on a long term basis. Ohio doesnt seem to have a particular team consistently in the national rankings every year like they do in football with Colerain and X. And you say there are not many quality teams in Kentucky? Most of the teams, such as Scott Co, MAson CO, and the top Louisville schools play more out of state teams than they do in state. So to say they are just dominating because a lack of quality teams in Kentucky is a statement with little credibility on your part.

Also last time I checked, Kentucky has ONE state champion. This means you have to beat 4 of the top 16 teams in the STATE (not division) just to win the state title.

Make sure you do a little research before trying to down some of the top teams in other states. Also if you look at the records of Kentucky teams against national competition last year, you'd be quite surprised.

[eta rho]

You bring down Cincinnati's top 5 teams and put them against Kentucky's top 5 teams in a one and out tournament, and I can almost guarantee you'd see two Kentucky teams in the finals.

[Prepfan2008]

You bring down Cincinnati's top 5 teams and put them against Kentucky's top 5 teams in a one and out tournament, and I can almost guarantee you'd see two Kentucky teams in the finals.



Haha, you are silly!!!!

[eta rho]

Haha, you are silly!!!!

Moeller had a good year last year but those teams aren't consistent like in Kentucky. Cincinnati basketball is good but Kentucky this year and next has a legit 3 to 5 teams who would knock off Cincy's best.

[1180ChesterRoad]

Moeller had a good year last year but those teams aren't consistent like in Kentucky. Cincinnati basketball is good but Kentucky this year and next has a legit 3 to 5 teams who would knock off Cincy's best.

Please name those teams for me.

[RoundballOZ11]

the two pittmans from holmes -- I believe have enrolled at AIKEN!!

[GOBaller08]

no way that kentucky is better than ohio

[morecowbell]

no way that kentucky is better than ohio

Only way to know for sure is for each state to schedule multiple games in the next few years to prove that point.

[HoopHound]

In driving time... how far is it from Cincy to Louisville as well as Lexington?

[eta rho]

Please name those teams for me.

Scott Co
Covington Holmes
George Rogers Clark
Louisville Manual
Louisville Ballard
Louisville Jeffersontown
Louisville Eastern

I can guarantee you any of those teams would knock off some of the best in Cincy.

Holmes and Scott Co would likely win the public school or GCL in Cincy.

[eta rho]

the two pittmans from holmes -- I believe have enrolled at AIKEN!!

Isn't it against Yappi rules to post false information??

First off, it's the JOHNSON BROTHERS from Holmes. The were at Taft their freshman year after leaving Holmes middle school system, then came back this past year for their sophomore year.

And I can assure you they are still at Holmes. I just saw them Thursday at Holmes open gym when I was doing a preview on them for the upcoming season and spoke with both of them.

[eta rho]

In driving time... how far is it from Cincy to Louisville as well as Lexington?

I'd say in the neighborhood of an hour and a half to 2 hours doing 70 the whole way there.

[1180ChesterRoad]

Scott Co
Covington Holmes
George Rogers Clark
Louisville Manual
Louisville Ballard
Louisville Jeffersontown
Louisville Eastern

I can guarantee you any of those teams would knock off some of the best in Cincy.

Holmes and Scott Co would likely win the public school or GCL in Cincy.

Highly doubtful.

[eta rho]

Highly doubtful.

And have you seen any of those teams play or know anything about them to merit your statement?

I seen Moeller several times last year as well Elder, St X, Withrow, and several of the other top teams in Cincy which you think would beat some of the best in Kentucky.

[eta rho]

Highly doubtful.

Here are a few highlights of Holmes from this past year.

#33 is Ricardo Johnson (6'5 JR G)
#24 is Elijah Pittman (6'6 JR G)
#23 is Ricardo Johnson (6'5 JR G)

Those are the three big time players they return this year.

#25 is Arrez Henderson (now at Louisiana Tech)

Holmes v Bellevue
http://wlwt.highschoolplaybook.com/media/ShowMedia.do?mid=ad2906358fb2780132882792216a0ab2

Holmes v Beechwood
http://wlwt.highschoolplaybook.com/media/ShowMedia.do?mid=097c7001a672b5b0ebd386ae6ba714f9

Holmes v Boone Co
http://wlwt.highschoolplaybook.com/media/ShowMedia.do?mid=509e2df19b9539b6feb63e375650a9de

State Championship vs Mason Co (#24 in the country who had UK signee Darius Miller- #21)
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Dato=20080323&Kategori=VIDEO02&Lopenr=80323001&Ref=AR