High School Umpiring This Year

[111411]

After watching high school baseball for many years, I thought this question could pose some interesting discussions and stories.

Is High School umpiring much better this year, better this year, the same, worse, or significantly worse?

Discuss.

[Small ball]

Personally I have only seen one good umpire this year on a Saturday. Too much inconsistency. All I can figure is that the OHSAA must be hurting for umpires. I haven't seen a single ump that knows how to call a curve ball, they act like they have never seen one before. Oh well I'm done venting for now. Nice thread ones. I think that this topic is just what the doctor ordered. :stirthepot:

[pnthrz4life]

I attended a game this year where I saw an unbelievable umpire blunder. The pitcher was in the stretch with a guy on second. The pitcher came set and was checking the runner. The hitter asked for "Time" and the umpire said nothing and stayed down awaiting the pitch. The pitcher then stepped to pitch but didn't pitch the ball. The umpire then ruled that the batter's "time" call was loud enough for everyone and didn't call a balk. This cost my Panthers a run in a one-run game at that time.

It also seems like base umpires are dying to call runners out. They seem to get excited before the ball even gets to the bag starting to call the runner out.

[playthegame25]

dont hold me to this, but im pretty sure a batter can never cause a balk by calling time even if its not granted so that was actually a pretty good call. But so far this year, I have yet to see an umpire with a consistant strike zone.

[AllSports12]

I attended a game this year where I saw an unbelievable umpire blunder. The pitcher was in the stretch with a guy on second. The pitcher came set and was checking the runner. The hitter asked for "Time" and the umpire said nothing and stayed down awaiting the pitch. The pitcher then stepped to pitch but didn't pitch the ball. The umpire then ruled that the batter's "time" call was loud enough for everyone and didn't call a balk. This cost my Panthers a run in a one-run game at that time.

No blunder here............ Playthegame25 is 100% correct.

This play is covered in the rule book. Once the pitcher stopped because of, in the umpire's judgement, the hitter's request for "time" caused him to stop, the ball is dead and there is no penalty.

If the batter stepped out of the box instead of "staying down", then you would assess a strike to the batter.

[santa]

You have your good umpires and you have your bad ones. It's part of the game.

[111411]

Biggest blunder I've seen in a while.

Bases loaded, one out.

Batter tops the ball in front of the plate, fair territory.

Catcher grabs it and steps on the plate, out #2.

Catcher immediately throws to first to get the batter, who is clearly out.

Unfortunately, the field umpire was looking at his feet. Yes, he was loooking down. He had no clue that there was a play at first. He made no call, just standing there. When asked by the coaches what the call was, he shrugged his shoulders. He did not even know there was a play. The plate umpire, who should've been watching the ball, had no clue either. They met and decided that the runner was safe, since neither saw the play.

I've never seen anything like it, ever.

Offensive team team scores five runs with two outs instead of playing defense. Talk about a turnaround.

[WoodyHayes]

Biggest blunder I've seen in a while.

Bases loaded, one out.

Batter tops the ball in front of the plate, fair territory.

Catcher grabs it and steps on the plate, out #2.

Catcher immediately throws to first to get the batter, who is clearly out.

The field umpire should not be allowed on a high school ball field. Period!

Unfortunately, the field umpire was looking at his feet. Yes, he was loooking down. He had no clue that there was a play at first. He made no call, just standing there. When asked by the coaches what the call was, he shrugged his shoulders. He did not even know there was a play. The plate umpire, who should've been watching the ball, had no clue either. They met and decided that the runner was safe, since neither saw the play.

I've never seen anything like it, ever.

Offensive team team scores five runs with two outs instead of playing defense. Talk about a turnaround. The plate umpire has an obligation on this play (after the out) to follow the ball and watch the next play. In this case I would have trailed the ball up the first base line for 2 reasons,
1 - To make sure that thr first baseman did not pull his foot
2 - To make a call at home plate, if another runner came home.
I see many umpires try and make calls at home from the 3rd base side of home and it is hard to do that.
I am a very good umpire and would love to come to Ohio and ump a few summer ball games, ages 12 on up to 19. Anyone who knows of an opportunity in June, give me a PM. I could visit family while I am there.

[starkravingdad]

I am a very good umpire and would love to come to Ohio and ump a few summer ball games


I think the umps I've seen have been about the same as last year so far, not significantly better or worse.

[WoodyHayes]

I think the umps I've seen have been about the same as last year so far, not significantly better or worse. From the things I have read on here, and from talking to some coaches up there, the umps are far from good.

PS: I already have one tournament lined up to do up there.

[111411]

The plate umpire has an obligation on this play (after the out) to follow the ball and watch the next play. In this case I would have trailed the ball up the first base line for 2 reasons,
1 - To make sure that thr first baseman did not pull his foot
2 - To make a call at home plate, if another runner came home.
I see many umpires try and make calls at home from the 3rd base side of home and it is hard to do that.
I am a very good umpire and would love to come to Ohio and ump a few summer ball games, ages 12 on up to 19. Anyone who knows of an opportunity in June, give me a PM. I could visit family while I am there.


Agreed about the trail umpire. A good umpire will watch the ball and follow the play. Obviously, these gentlemen would not fall into that category.

[Small ball]

I think that the stocking hat got pulled down over his eyes. :D

[AllSports12]

I disagree with you gentlemen.....

With the bases loaded, the home plate umpire should hold his position on all balls in play in preparation of a runner advancing towards the plate. Trailing the play up the line is fine (and expected) with no runners on base, however, should the first baseman actually pull his foot and an alert third base coach have the runner from second going full bore, you are now up the line away from the plate and in the way of a possible throw from the first baseman. Not a good position to be in.

Backing off the plate first base line extended still gets you the view at first if help is needed, gets you a quick look at the baserunner touching third (there are coaches that teach the runners to "cut" the bag short in these situations) and makes it easier for you to get in the proper position to make the call at the plate. The base umpire will now have responsibility of the original runner on first advancing to third.

[AmericaOne]

Biggest blunder I've seen in a while.

Bases loaded, one out.

Batter tops the ball in front of the plate, fair territory.

Catcher grabs it and steps on the plate, out #2.

Catcher immediately throws to first to get the batter, who is clearly out.

Unfortunately, the field umpire was looking at his feet. Yes, he was loooking down. He had no clue that there was a play at first. He made no call, just standing there. When asked by the coaches what the call was, he shrugged his shoulders. He did not even know there was a play. The plate umpire, who should've been watching the ball, had no clue either. They met and decided that the runner was safe, since neither saw the play.

I've never seen anything like it, ever.

Offensive team team scores five runs with two outs instead of playing defense. Talk about a turnaround.

11141: I think that my complaints may be the tip of the iceburg. It seems almost every post there is complaints about the umpiring. Now you understand what happened in Fairfield was not an aberation but the norm. Come on Umps. put some pride into the game and stop having rabbit ears, goading coaches and make the simple calls that change the complexion of the games. Not all umpires. Woody you sound like a good one. It would be nice to have you when you come up. I will get you some work.

[GCPRO]

I would suggest that any and all that complain about umpiring to take the class, know where you are supposed to be in relation to the developing play, understand all the rules, and then umpire some games AT THE LEVEL you are complaining about. With each level that a player moves up, the game becomes much quicker for all involved. Unless you have stood behind a catcher and witnessed an 86 mph slider, don't comment on ball and strikes and the same goes for all facets of the game.
Granted, like in all walks of life, there are good and bad ones. Ones that hustle and ones that are lazy. But I would say all are trying to do a good job because no one wants to be bad.

[The Big X]

I watch alot of major league baseball - I have noticed each umpire has their own strike zone. The players adjust to what is being called. Is that not what is done in high school? Base umps make calls on close plays - one side thinks they are right and on side thinks they are wrong.

111411 - that is a situation that is uncalled for as the umpires were not in position to make the call and that is really all you can ask for. I have never seen that happen but the ump who did that really scewed up.

A-1 : when you say what happened at FF was not an aberration but the norm do you mean that parents get thrown out of games by the umpires all the time?

[chuck_norris]

you are always gonna have some subjective calls, it is just how many they have. it is about the same as usual, it is still the same old guys out there calling the games year after year

[AmericaOne]

I watch alot of major league baseball - I have noticed each umpire has their own strike zone. The players adjust to what is being called. Is that not what is done in high school? Base umps make calls on close plays - one side thinks they are right and on side thinks they are wrong.

111411 - that is a situation that is uncalled for as the umpires were not in position to make the call and that is really all you can ask for. I have never seen that happen but the ump who did that really scewed up.

A-1 : when you say what happened at FF was not an aberration but the norm do you mean that parents get thrown out of games by the umpires all the time?

No the (poor call) not getting ejected. Do not need to visit it again, I was asked by an outside source (official) if I was issued a warning or a request to stop, was not but normally an umpire gives a warning, prior to an ejection. Again I was wrong for cursing, should not have but did and that was that, but almost everyone even the other side felt it was a poor call. If you are reading the threads then this is becoming common place--(poor officiating). A lot of umpires would not throw a parent out as quickly as that particular umpire did.

[GCPRO]

Why would an official issue a warning to a spectator? If the abuse had risen to the level(cursing would definitely be that level), why bother to warn a spectator that has zero business in the discourse. Good lord! Please just let it go!

[Whoknows]

In my opinion every umpire has been pretty good except one field umpire in the first game. Maybe he was rusty. But very well done so far.

[AmericaOne]

Why would an official issue a warning to a spectator? If the abuse had risen to the level(cursing would definitely be that level), why bother to warn a spectator that has zero business in the discourse. Good lord! Please just let it go!

GCPRO: I had let it alone. Read the quote, I had not mentioned it. If someone keeps bringing it up I will say what I like. There was no abuse. I can abuse, and buddy that certainly was not abuse. You do not curse, I forgot. You are so full of yourself it is unreal...I was speaking to X not you, and answering a question.

[GCPRO]

Okay I will agree to allow that the umpire made a huge mistake in throwing you out of the game. He quite obviously knew not what he was doing. And I curse plenty, just not at ballgames, in front of my son and or daughter and certainly not because a call went against the team is was rooting for.

[111411]

Gentlemen, back to the topic. We are starting to veer.

[thePITman]

Every year, in all sports, everyone is becoming more and more critical of umpires, referees, and officials. Why? The umpires, referees, and officials have not gotten worse every year since I was born, but why does everyone complain more and more about them in person and online than the year before?

[SWO_Sports]

Every year, in all sports, everyone is becoming more and more critical of umpires, referees, and officials. Why? The umpires, referees, and officials have not gotten worse every year since I was born, but why does everyone complain more and more about them in person and online than the year before?

I agree! Is there a UAA (Umpire Abuse Anonymous) program? I think this would be an A1-OK idea!

[GCPRO]

thePitman-great question, but it doesn't just pertain to complaining about the officiating. It pertains to all facets of athletics-coaches, officials, teammates. As a athlete myself, way back in the day, turn 47 tomorrow, my parents never said a word to me about my coach, fellow teammates, or the officiating. My father was a pretty good athlete himself and actually officiated baseball and basketball for a number of years, so it seems he would pretty knowledgeable and never offered his opinions on any aspect of my playing days(grade school, HS and collegiately). When watching my sons play HS and collgiate athletics, I stay as far away from the rest of the parents as physically possible. I cannot believe some of the comments I have heard in recent years. Just by reading these posts it is comical to think that officials, coaches and players themselves are thought to be mistake free. It just seems the blame has to be placed elsewhere. Sports are a microcosm of our lives, unfortunately there is unfairness inherent in both. There are valuable life lessons to be learned on the athletic fields and not all will go your way. It is a game. Deal with it.

[kokids]

I have always told my boys that they need to think of an umpire’s call as neither good nor bad. The call just is. In sports we try to teach our kids how to handle adversity and then when adversity happens, we try to blame everyone in sight. Sometimes calls go your way and sometimes they don’t. When they don’t go your way it is a fantastic learning opportunity. Instead of blaming, whining, and crying about it, a better approach is to dig in a little deeper and try to overcome it. You will never get the next call if you continue to complain about the last call. When you do overcome a call that didn’t go your way, the victory is that much sweeter. In reality, I have seen very few calls over the years that have actually cost anyone a game. If you look back through the game, there are always opportunities where you could have gotten a key base hit, made a big defensive play, or gotten a big strikeout. Instead of blaming the umpire, look at where you could have played better. I guarantee that it is a much healthier attitude to take.

The only time I believe a manager has the right to question a call is if there is a real question about the rules themselves – not a question about ball/strike, safe/out, or fair/foul.

[SUMUMP]

I agree! Is there a UAA (Umpire Abuse Anonymous) program? I think this would be an A1-OK idea!

My UAA meeting takes place at the nearest watering hole directly after every game. Now you know why we leave the field so quickly!

[GCPRO]

SUMUMP and kokids-very good on both accounts. You will have to excuse some on here, they refuse to "get it."

[SWO_Sports]

My UAA meeting takes place at the nearest watering hole directly after every game. Now you know why we leave the field so quickly!

:laugh: :thumb:

[AmericaOne]

SUMUMP and kokids-very good on both accounts. You will have to excuse some on here, they refuse to "get it."

GCPRO: I will get this. Rules interpretation ignored last night at the FF VS. Miamisburg game. A FF player on 2nd. and third with one out. A long fly to right is bobbled by the outfielder and eventually caught. Both FF players tag and advance. Miamisburg appeals the call to third to no avail, then to second and the field umpire calls the runner out. Ignores the rule that once the ball touches the fielder or the mit the runner can proceed. Neither umpire new the rule. Other wise a player would have to wait until the catch was completed, and 10.09 (e) Sacrifice flys and the ensuing tag up. This was one of three calls that were questionable at best. If everything in life is changing and going to pot, why would you not think the officiating does not fall into the same category. Some folks just refuse to "get it". :shrug:

[AllSports12]

Seems to me that if neither umpire knew the rule, then the first appeal would have been granted as well.

Is there any chance that the base umpire, in his judgement, felt that the runner on second left early?

[AmericaOne]

Seems to me that if neither umpire knew the rule, then the first appeal would have been granted as well.

Is there any chance that the base umpire, in his judgement, felt that the runner on second left early?

The kid loss control in the mit, then it popped out and he cought it in his bare hand as he was falling. They left the same time. I just think the plate umpire again did not want to discuss it and perhaps get the call right. It is not that big of a deal now. But I was just trying to make a point. If the crowds, fans, parents are not as tolerant and are so bad today , as opposed to years ago, what makes anyone think the officiating has not gotten worse.

[Bhudda]

I disagree with you gentlemen.....

With the bases loaded, the home plate umpire should hold his position on all balls in play in preparation of a runner advancing towards the plate. Trailing the play up the line is fine (and expected) with no runners on base, however, should the first baseman actually pull his foot and an alert third base coach have the runner from second going full bore, you are now up the line away from the plate and in the way of a possible throw from the first baseman. Not a good position to be in.

Backing off the plate first base line extended still gets you the view at first if help is needed, gets you a quick look at the baserunner touching third (there are coaches that teach the runners to "cut" the bag short in these situations) and makes it easier for you to get in the proper position to make the call at the plate. The base umpire will now have responsibility of the original runner on first advancing to third.

You're dead on Allsports12!

It's amazing to me how players and parents complain about calls without knowing the rules. Even travel coaches sometimes still go by some of the mythological "rules" they grew up believing in.

[GCPRO]

America One-if the Indians win it is not that big of a deal. If they lose it is the miscall of the century. Sure, I get it.
I must wonder to myself how you can know that both runners left at the same time, a physical impossibility?

[AmericaOne]

America One-if the Indians win it is not that big of a deal. If they lose it is the miscall of the century. Sure, I get it.
I must wonder to myself how you can know that both runners left at the same time, a physical impossibility?

Would you like to see it on film? That call could have been a big deal. You are amazing!! You probably would say the film was doctored...It was another bad call...And read the rule on sacrifices and it is not a mythological rule. Address the rule GCPRO. You are never wrong...

[AmericaOne]

America One-if the Indians win it is not that big of a deal. If they lose it is the miscall of the century. Sure, I get it.
I must wonder to myself how you can know that both runners left at the same time, a physical impossibility?

GC: You can not have it both ways. Either the world, everyone except you is going down hill, that includes umpires or is it just the bad parents, fans, coaches, and lawyers? :shrug:

[GCPRO]

Sure, would love to. I don't want to get into another one of these p......ing contest with you. I know what I know, which is not much and you seem pretty adamant in your views, that is also fine. I don't understand the constant badgering of the umpiring profession, they are human and will make mistakes, and as many beside myself have stated, it is part of the game. The good teams overcome that part of the game. I, personally, am just a person that doesn't seek to blame others for what ails in my life, whether that be in athletics or otherwise. You seem to see things differently and that is the fantastic part of our world-differing opinions. I have tried to take the "high road" on most of our disagreements but you seem to always get nasty and bitter. Sorry for disputing and sorry for exposing this to the yappi faithful, I used to enjoy the banter.

[GCPRO]

Lawyers???????????

[AmericaOne]

Sure, would love to. I don't want to get into another one of these p......ing contest with you. I know what I know, which is not much and you seem pretty adamant in your views, that is also fine. I don't understand the constant badgering of the umpiring profession, they are human and will make mistakes, and as many beside myself have stated, it is part of the game. The good teams overcome that part of the game. I, personally, am just a person that doesn't seek to blame others for what ails in my life, whether that be in athletics or otherwise. You seem to see things differently and that is the fantastic part of our world-differing opinions. I have tried to take the "high road" on most of our disagreements but you seem to always get nasty and bitter. Sorry for disputing and sorry for exposing this to the yappi faithful, I used to enjoy the banter.

GCPRO: You take the high road? This is the thread about umpiring. I told you the umpires that I think do a great job. Had about 6 long posts about them. Some are great.. some aren't...What about the quip about Letter of intent. in the other post, another snide remark. Ask Coach Grissom. You try to take the side of who will get the most people to side with them. Nothing nasty just notice you do not want me to talk about issues but continue to throw a dig here and there. You will not accept PM's like most people, so when you continue to say things like what you say then I will continue to respond. Lawyers was a joke, since most people do not like them either.

[GCPRO]

BTW- i have gotten plenty of PM's. I really don't want to leave via the IMHO route and really didn't see what he said to get banned. I would say that I try to keep things light, sorry if that is misconstrued. I have learned via the WSLL threads who can take it and who can't. Coach Grissom is a nice man, the letter of intent, still don't get it, but none of my business. I fully understand why you must back him and his coaching staff. As for the umpires you mentioned, well, enough said.

[AmericaOne]

BTW- i have gotten plenty of PM's. I really don't want to leave via the IMHO route and really didn't see what he said to get banned. I would say that I try to keep things light, sorry if that is misconstrued. I have learned via the WSLL threads who can take it and who can't. Coach Grissom is a nice man, the letter of intent, still don't get it, but none of my business. I fully understand why you must back him and his coaching staff. As for the umpires you mentioned, well, enough said.

GCPRO: I have never had an ax to grind with you. I do not know what happened to IMHO but I do know that some people come on here just to antagonize. He must have done a lot because these moderators are pretty good. I do not think you do that, I just must not get your humor. That is my bad and I appologize for that. That was why I explained the "lawyer" quip. That is the problem with the written word we do not always know what the intent was by what was written.

[AllSports12]

The kid loss control in the mit, then it popped out and he cought it in his bare hand as he was falling. They left the same time. I just think the plate umpire again did not want to discuss it and perhaps get the call right. It is not that big of a deal now. But I was just trying to make a point. If the crowds, fans, parents are not as tolerant and are so bad today , as opposed to years ago, what makes anyone think the officiating has not gotten worse.

What's the home plate umpire have to do with getting the call right at second base? He should have no idea what happened at second since his responsibility is to move back and towards third base getting as good as a look as he can at the runner tagging at third. From your original play, the appeal was made at third and denied, then at second. Hence, my question as to whether or not the base umpire felt that the runner left prior to the original touching of the fly ball by the outfielder.

This seems to be your judgement of what happened pitted against the guys on the field. You might be right.....

and then, so might they.........

[The Big X]

GCPRO: I have never had an ax to grind with you. I do not know what happened to IMHO but I do know that some people come on here just to antagonize. He must have done a lot because these moderators are pretty good. I do not think you do that, I just must not get your humor. That is my bad and I appologize for that. That was why I explained the "lawyer" quip. That is the problem with the written word we do not always know what the intent was by what was written.

A-1 : Do you film every game to the point you can see two bases at a time or was the game on TV and they had enough cameras covering the game that you can see two bases at the same time? I haven't been to a high school game where the TV coverage had cameras stationed so they would have cameras on the 3rd base or 1st base line whee you could see two bases at one time.

You bring up IMHO and call him an antagonist many times in many threads any chance you can take but complain about somebody making a remark about something you have said. I guess you are allowed to do whatever you want. As to what happened to my deceased friend - you know what happened. A couple of "freshman" FF parents reported his posts after you couldn't support your position at all with anything but attacks. I wonder who that may have been. Haven't seen those so-called parents post on here since they appeared for the first time in a thread they were not even posting in. Not hard to figure out what happened to my deceased friend IMHO.

By the way - I know for a fact that GCPro allows PMs.

[AllSports12]

If the crowds, fans, parents are not as tolerant and are so bad today , as opposed to years ago, what makes anyone think the officiating has not gotten worse.


Has officiating gotten worse? Guess what, another judgement call !!

I can tell you this, we are not getting new blood into the pipeline. This is a product of ignorance on our part. We felt that like the "old days", young guys would catch the bug (just like us) and be "lifers". Unfortunately, things are much different over the past 10 years than they were in the past.

In 2001, the National Association for Sports Officials conducted a study because of the concern about a nationwide shortage of officials. The study produced these results... (another study is ongoing)

When quizzed as to why guys/gals left officiating the top three reasons were....

1) 76% identified the decline in sportsmanship by parents.

2) 68% identified the decline in sportsmanship by players and coaches.

3) 65% identified family issues and career demands as reasons for leaving.

Another telling statistic is that in 1998 only two states had specific laws related to assaults on sports officials. Now there are 22, with many more states considering legislation.

While we have re-focused our efforts with regards to recruiting new officials, it will a very difficult task, as we lose 2 of every three new officials within 3 years. The reasons given by those who did not stick it out....

See #1 & #2 above.

Vets are leaving, new guys are not sticking with it. Unless some things change, officiating will get worse.

[AllSports12]

You're dead on Allsports12!

It's amazing to me how players and parents complain about calls without knowing the rules. Even travel coaches sometimes still go by some of the mythological "rules" they grew up believing in.

In talking with guys who train new officials, they indicate that getting guys/gals to forget the "mythicals" is the toughest part in getting started.

Some of my favorites are...

He gets the base he's going to plus one...

The hands are part of the bat....

That cannot be a balk, it's his natural motion.....

The runner has to slide....


Just a handful of many............

[The Big X]

Has officiating gotten worse? Guess what, another judgement call !!

I can tell you this, we are not getting new blood into the pipeline. This is a product of ignorance on our part. We felt that like the "old days", young guys would catch the bug (just like us) and be "lifers". Unfortunately, things are much different over the past 10 years than they were in the past.

In 2001, the National Association for Sports Officials conducted a study because of the concern about a nationwide shortage of officials. The study produced these results... (another study is ongoing)

When quizzed as to why guys/gals left officiating the top three reasons were....

1) 76% identified the decline in sportsmanship by parents.

2) 68% identified the decline in sportsmanship by players and coaches.

3) 65% identified family issues and career demands as reasons for leaving.

Another telling statistic is that in 1998 only two states had specific laws related to assaults on sports officials. Now there are 22, with many more states considering legislation.

While we have re-focused our efforts with regards to recruiting new officials, it will a very difficult task, as we lose 2 of every three new officials within 3 years. The reasons given by those who did not stick it out....

See #1 & #2 above.

Vets are leaving, new guys are not sticking with it. Unless some things change, officiating will get worse.

It is a pretty good strike against society that statistics like the ones you posted exist and that states have to have laws against assaults on sports officials. Staying involved in a game you love is probably the biggest reason an umpire gets involved. However putting up with parents who know every aspect of everything associated with the game along with the belief that because of that they have the right to do whatever it takes to "help" their team win including berating and cussing officials I bet is a big reason guys either leave or don't get involved in the first place as umpires. Try playing the game without umpires. To those that regularly critisize umps - the game can be played without fans - it can not be played without umpires.

[AmericaOne]

What's the home plate umpire have to do with getting the call right at second base? He should have no idea what happened at second since his responsibility is to move back and towards third base getting as good as a look as he can at the runner tagging at third. From your original play, the appeal was made at third and denied, then at second. Hence, my question as to whether or not the base umpire felt that the runner left prior to the original touching of the fly ball by the outfielder.

This seems to be your judgement of what happened pitted against the guys on the field. You might be right.....

and then, so might they.........

Allsports12: I will drop it. I was trying to make a point and it went awry. Of course we all make mistakes and the umpire may be a great guy that rarely ever makes them. I have been hearing from many folks this season about calls that are suspect. I must be in the minority but think that umpires, referees, and anyone with the power to change a game should be interested in the correct call over anything else. This means their relationship with their partners, pride, and whatever gets in the way of the correct call being made. Why do you think they went to the instant replay in football. To get the correct call.. How many times have you heard not to complain or you will not get calls. this should never happen whether a fan complains or not.
But any way bad call and good calls are part of the game. One thing we are not going to change that.

[GCPRO]

Guys-I have to agree with those statistics. I officiated basketball for 25 years, from youth to varsity basketball. I umpired baseball for 15 years, mostly in 15-18 AABC ball. In basketball, the way that coaches behave today would cause any official not want to get started. I watched a girls HS varsity basketball game this past winter and could not believe how the parents acted and the things that were said, at a game between two parochial schools. In baseball, never did see much but just from reading on here, cannot believe how parents act and what they perceive as their "right" to get the call correct. I have been around HS baseball for almost 30 years and have never seen a parent get tossed from a game, yet I personally know of two in the last 1 plus year and that is from people that supposedly are knowledgeable baseball people.

[The Big X]

Allsports12: I will drop it. I was trying to make a point and it went awry. Of course we all make mistakes and the umpire may be a great guy that rarely ever makes them. I have been hearing from many folks this season about calls that are suspect. I must be in the minority but think that umpires, referees, and anyone with the power to change a game should be interested in the correct call over anything else. This means their relationship with their partners, pride, and whatever gets in the way of the correct call being made. Why do you think they went to the instant replay in football. To get the correct call.. How many times have you heard not to complain or you will not get calls. this should never happen whether a fan complains or not.
But any way bad call and good calls are part of the game. One thing we are not going to change that.

Are you implying that umpires don't care about getting the call right? If a player makes an error was he not trying to make the play? If a pitcher gives up a home run was he not trying to get the batter out? Could it be that the umpire feels he has the call right and unruly fans in the stands just don't see it that way? Close calls - one side is always not happy with the call. You enven posted that "getting the call right" in the MIamisburg game didn't matter becasue I guess you won that game. It would be a different storyif you lost wouldn't it?

[GCPRO]

A1-the single only reason they went to instant replay in pro and college sports is because of gambling. Plain and simple. During the NCAA tourney, don't remember the exact game, but the NCAA went back and allowed a bucket that was disallowed at the end of the game to change a 2 pt. win to a 4 pt. win. The difference and only difference, was the betting line was affected.

[AllSports12]

You don't have to drop anything.

Are mistakes made ? Yep! Are they done on purpose? Nope!

I will never criticize someone who questions a judgement call by an official. That's been going on for over 100 years. That criticising has never changed an official's call.

I will however, challenge someone who complains without understanding the umpire's mechanics and responsibilities regarding a play or without understanding the rule(s) regarding the play they describe. My challenge is not meant to show how much more I know than that individual, but rather to help him/her understand why a specific ruling was made.

**** Instant replay ??? That was all about money

[AmericaOne]

A1-the single only reason they went to instant replay in pro and college sports is because of gambling. Plain and simple. During the NCAA tourney, don't remember the exact game, but the NCAA went back and allowed a bucket that was disallowed at the end of the game to change a 2 pt. win to a 4 pt. win. The difference and only difference, was the betting line was affected.


GCPRO: Was not aware of that. Thanks for the info. But I could understand the reason there. Greed and money....Didn't they review a baseball play in the majors this year? It was a home run ball I think touched by a fan or something?

[AmericaOne]

You don't have to drop anything.

Are mistakes made ? Yep! Are they done on purpose? Nope!

I will never criticize someone who questions a judgement call by an official. That's been going on for over 100 years. That criticising has never changed an official's call.

I will however, challenge someone who complains without understanding the umpire's mechanics and responsibilities regarding a play or without understanding the rule(s) regarding the play they describe. My challenge is not meant to show how much more I know than that individual, but rather to help him/her understand why a specific ruling was made.

**** Instant replay ??? That was all about money

Allsports12: This gives an explanation of why the instant replay in sports. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_replay

But money and gambling I am sure may be the root of this.

[GCPRO]

I wonder what the explanation would be for the NCAA basketball game that was mentioned. A 2 pt. win is still a win, a 4pt. win affected the betting line which I believe was 2 pts. Who's running that show?

[The Big X]

Allsports12: This gives an explanation of why the instant replay in sports. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_replay

But money and gambling I am sure may be the root of this.

The calls that are reviewable in pro sports are those that an official can not possibly see everything needed to make the call even if he is in the right position while making the call. Not all calls are reviewable in the pro sports that allow for review. For example - Seeing in live action whether a receiver gets both feet in bounds while watching to see if the receiver also had control of the ball while tapping both feet is virtually impossible. Seeing if the shot was made before the clock said zero while watching the floor to see if the shooter had both feet behind the 3-point line is impossible for an official to do. Baseball does not allow for replay at this time to my knowledge.

It is not in use to get every call right and would be a circus if used that way. It is used to help the officials on calls that they can not make becasue of what would have to be watched to make the call correctly or the impossibility of having 4 different angles to see a play ( seeing if a player fumbled a ball) to make sure an official wasn't screened from seeing the play.

[BaseballRepresent]

My UAA meeting takes place at the nearest watering hole directly after every game. Now you know why we leave the field so quickly!

I completely understand. :D

[SWO_Sports]

Guys-I have to agree with those statistics. I officiated basketball for 25 years, from youth to varsity basketball. I umpired baseball for 15 years, mostly in 15-18 AABC ball. In basketball, the way that coaches behave today would cause any official not want to get started. I watched a girls HS varsity basketball game this past winter and could not believe how the parents acted and the things that were said, at a game between two parochial schools. In baseball, never did see much but just from reading on here, cannot believe how parents act and what they perceive as their "right" to get the call correct. I have been around HS baseball for almost 30 years and have never seen a parent get tossed from a game, yet I personally know of two in the last 1 plus year and that is from people that supposedly are knowledgeable baseball people.

I'm with you on this GCPRO. I umpired baseball from T-Ball up to High School Ball for 20 years and I have never seen "a parent get tossed from a game" or tossed one.
From what I can tell by reading A1's posts you will never be right and he will never be wrong; even if he says you are right and he is wrong. I think you know what I mean?

[IMHO]

Free at Last, Free at Last, Thank God Almighty I am Free At Last!!!!!!!!


:Party:

Man solitary confinement is tough!!!!! But I am here to report they couldn't break me no matter what.

How long has it been? Has the titanic struggle between Fairfield and Middletown taken place to decide placement in the lower division next season?

Thank you to GCPRO for attepting to bail me out of jail. I heard they wouldn't take your house as bail payment!!!!! :) And to The Big X for having my back - watch yourself their are alot of Italian posters on here trying to weed out those that do not agree.

Oh well back on topic - decision making by humans is always going to be part of the game. Bad decisions by umpires either on ball/strikes and on the base paths are definitely part of the game. Good players do not let those decisions effect their play. Umpires get some wrong and their is no technology available that will allow that not to be the case without slowing down the game to the point that nobody would play it much less watch it. And that is at the professional level. We are talking about HIGH SCHOOL. How about showing some respect for those in authority? That is a lesson that could be learned by all involved in youth sports beginning with the parents who call themselves fans!!!!

The umpiring I have seen this season is on par with what I have seen in past years but maybe that is becasue they assign the good ones to the GCL games!!!:shrug:

[SWO_Sports]

Free at Last, Free at Last, Thank God Almighty I am Free At Last!!!!!!!!


:Party:

Man solitary confinement is tough!!!!! But I am here to report they couldn't break me no matter what.

How long has it been? Has the titanic struggle between Fairfield and Middletown taken place to decide placement in the lower division next season?

Thank you to GCPRO for attepting to bail me out of jail. I heard they wouldn't take your house as bail payment!!!!! :) And to The Big X for having my back - watch yourself their are alot of Italian posters on here trying to weed out those that do not agree.

Oh well back on topic - decision making by humans is always going to be part of the game. Bad decisions by umpires either on ball/strikes and on the base paths are definitely part of the game. Good players do not let those decisions effect their play. Umpires get some wrong and their is no technology available that will allow that not to be the case without slowing down the game to the point that nobody would play it much less watch it. And that is at the professional level. We are talking about HIGH SCHOOL. How about showing some respect for those in authority? That is a lesson that could be learned by all involved in youth sports beginning with the parents who call themselves fans!!!!

The umpiring I have seen this season is on par with what I have seen in past years but maybe that is becasue they assign the good ones to the GCL games!!!:shrug:

IMAO glad to see you and your perspective back!! :thumb:
The Yappi police made my day! :clap:

[GCPRO]

IMHO-good to see you back. Now let's get after IT.

[Texasfan]

i just find it funny when parents sitting in the stands yell stuff.

the other day i happened to be at a game with the bases loaded 1 out and the pitcher throws home. catcher gets the ball close play at home and the runner is called out. all of a sudden you hear some mom screaming BLUE HE HAS TO TAG HIM YOU F***ing moron.

[Hakko936]

i just find it funny when parents sitting in the stands yell stuff.

the other day i happened to be at a game with the bases loaded 1 out and the pitcher throws home. catcher gets the ball close play at home and the runner is called out. all of a sudden you hear some mom screaming BLUE HE HAS TO TAG HIM YOU F***ing moron.


I hope blue immediately tossed this parent. No warning needed. They have to go and go now. Toss them for saying and and toss them for being that incredibly stupid.

[Yellow_Jacket06]

I'm starting to notice inconsistent strike zones here & there, but I guess that comes with the game.

[thePITman]

thePitman-great question, but it doesn't just pertain to complaining about the officiating. It pertains to all facets of athletics-coaches, officials, teammates. As a athlete myself, way back in the day, turn 47 tomorrow, my parents never said a word to me about my coach, fellow teammates, or the officiating. My father was a pretty good athlete himself and actually officiated baseball and basketball for a number of years, so it seems he would pretty knowledgeable and never offered his opinions on any aspect of my playing days(grade school, HS and collegiately). When watching my sons play HS and collgiate athletics, I stay as far away from the rest of the parents as physically possible. I cannot believe some of the comments I have heard in recent years. Just by reading these posts it is comical to think that officials, coaches and players themselves are thought to be mistake free. It just seems the blame has to be placed elsewhere. Sports are a microcosm of our lives, unfortunately there is unfairness inherent in both. There are valuable life lessons to be learned on the athletic fields and not all will go your way. It is a game. Deal with it.

Great post, and I think it was a great addition/follow-up to my initial post. It sems as if everyone, no matter how un-knowledgeable about a sport they are, feels they have the exact right opinion about every situation, every occurrence, and every sport. I keep official statistics for my alma mater's varsity football, basketball, and baseball teams... you would not believe the personal approaches and other comments I get/hear that are either outrageously jealous or dead wrong/inaccurate. People need to learn the rules. Also, about parents talking to coaches, etc... I'm right with you. All through my high school sports days, I always stressed to my parents to never talk to any of my coaches about playing time, decisions, or whatnot. My dad was on my alma mater's wall of fame (along with his 2 brothers) for football and he won 2 national championships in slow-pitch softball, so it wasn't like he was any slouch when it came to sports. It was not their position to do so (talk to the coach), and I knew if I wasn't playing I'd just have to work harder. I don't get it. And we wonder why coaches' stays at schools are becoming shorter and shorter. Media, yes. But media and the individual criticism especially at the lower levels. It is ridiculous. Having been a varsity assistant coach the past two years, I've been fully exposed to the inside world of parents and their constant complaining, bickering, and suggesting of everything. It is completely out of hand and rediculous.

[ReesMcd3621]

I'm starting to notice inconsistent strike zones here & there, but I guess that comes with the game.

same here, theres been pitches low and outside that are below the knee and off the plate that have been called strikes all the time this year.

[WoodyHayes]

same here, theres been pitches low and outside that are below the knee and off the plate that have been called strikes all the time this year.
The pitch that you just described is the most wrong called pitch that I see on a continuing basis. I umpire 5A ball in Texas and have given clinics with blocks of time devoted to this pitch. The reason that I believe that it gets called is that the umpire is set up to close to the catcher. There are times, and I teach this, that it is not uncommon for me to set up 3 or 4 feet behind the catcher but still in the slot. I have people tell me that seems odd untill I take them to the spot with a catcher in the ready position. You get a whole different view of the plate. You see the low pitch with much more clarity, along with a catcher trying to bring the pitch back in. Low batted balls, balls in the dirt on a third strike are much more easier to see. Have someone set up as a catcher and try it. Look at the spectaculiar view you get setting up back and away.

As a sidenote, I love to watch kids learn to play baseball and will still call (and enjoy calling) 9-14 year old Dixie ball. Last night I was with my normal high school partner calling a 10 year old game. This kid throws a curve ball that drops about 2 feet and froze me stiff. I called it a ball. In between innings my partner and this kids dad are just wearing me out for getting beat by a 10 year olds curve ball (not that he should even be throwing them) This kid threw this pitch out of nowhere.LOL.

[AmericaOne]

The pitch that you just described is the most wrong called pitch that I see on a continuing basis. I umpire 5A ball in Texas and have given clinics with blocks of time devoted to this pitch. The reason that I believe that it gets called is that the umpire is set up to close to the catcher. There are times, and I teach this, that it is not uncommon for me to set up 3 or 4 feet behind the catcher but still in the slot. I have people tell me that seems odd untill I take them to the spot with a catcher in the ready position. You get a whole different view of the plate. You see the low pitch with much more clarity, along with a catcher trying to bring the pitch back in. Low batted balls, balls in the dirt on a third strike are much more easier to see. Have someone set up as a catcher and try it. Look at the spectaculiar view you get setting up back and away.

As a sidenote, I love to watch kids learn to play baseball and will still call (and enjoy calling) 9-14 year old Dixie ball. Last night I was with my normal high school partner calling a 10 year old game. This kid throws a curve ball that drops about 2 feet and froze me stiff. I called it a ball. In between innings my partner and this kids dad are just wearing me out for getting beat by a 10 year olds curve ball (not that he should even be throwing them) This kid threw this pitch out of nowhere.LOL.

Woody: I have liked your Texas take on things and the way you sound like you umpire games. Seems like you use a lot of common sense to go with a real knowledge of the game. Where the umpire sets up does seem to have a big influence on whether they call the pitches that "paint the black" or do not call them. A good pitcher who can consistently put the ball on the outside corner whether throwing a curve or fast ball will be noticed and I think umpires want to give them that pitch. It is when they are outside by more than a ball that it becomes difficult to watch. I have seen many pitches this year that have been too far outside and they are being called strikes. This makes hitters swing at bad pitches or get wrung up. Wrung (sp)
Sounds like Texas has a good umpire in WOODY....

[WoodyHayes]

I have heard umpires make the statement that they will give 1-1/2 balls on the outside and one on the inside. Maybe for a freshmen or JV game (depends on the pitching) there could be an argument made.
Varsity umpires should not do it. You are not preparing hitters or pitchers for the next level. Set up back in the slot and call the danged thing the way it should be called for SEVEN innings. The strike zone should NOT change during the course of the game no matter what the score is.
Bad umpires should be reported and scratched. PERIOD. I am a member of the TASO Longview, Texas chapter and bad umpires do not stay very long in our chapter. We police our own ranks.

[Small ball]

I have heard umpires make the statement that they will give 1-1/2 balls on the outside and one on the inside. Maybe for a freshmen or JV game (depends on the pitching) there could be an argument made.
Varsity umpires should not do it. You are not preparing hitters or pitchers for the next level. Set up back in the slot and call the danged thing the way it should be called for SEVEN innings. The strike zone should NOT change during the course of the game no matter what the score is.
Bad umpires should be reported and scratched. PERIOD. I am a member of the TASO Longview, Texas chapter and bad umpires do not stay very long in our chapter. We police our own ranks.

Amen!!!!!!!!

[111411]

I've seen bad umpires and good umpires this year. I have seen a lot more umpires out of position, not moving, and confused over the rules. Hopefully, the bad ones will eventually wash out.

[thePITman]

Has anyone ever seen "George" umpire around the Wayne County area? I think he's seriously 70-75 years old. He wears really thick glasses. He has a home plate sweeper that has a really long handle so he doesn't have to bend down. When he's the lone umpire in a game, he will stay sitting on one knee behind the catcher and try to lean to one side or the other to see the play at second for an attempted stolen base. He has come to games before with a real sling on the outside of his jacket holding his arm up. After being told he could not wear his sling while umpiring the varsity game (for obvious reasons), he kept that arm inside his jacket and hoisted it inside his sleeve for protection and made all his calls that day with one arm. Twice in one game this year, he was behind the plate and could not get up from his crouched position, and then he fell over and had to be helped up by the catcher and batter. After the second time it happened, he and the other umpire switched spots for the rest of the game. Oh, George... we're going to miss you if you ever stop umpiring. The one good thing about him, though, is that if he's told he's umpiring your game, he will be there an hour ahead of time with his wife and trusty ol' water cannister.

[SWO_Sports]

I have heard umpires make the statement that they will give 1-1/2 balls on the outside and one on the inside. Maybe for a freshmen or JV game (depends on the pitching) there could be an argument made.
Varsity umpires should not do it. You are not preparing hitters or pitchers for the next level. Set up back in the slot and call the danged thing the way it should be called for SEVEN innings. The strike zone should NOT change during the course of the game no matter what the score is.
Bad umpires should be reported and scratched. PERIOD. I am a member of the TASO Longview, Texas chapter and bad umpires do not stay very long in our chapter. We police our own ranks.

I don't think it's ever a good idea to expand the strike zone especially at the high school level. It develops bad habits for both hitters and pitchers. It also does not help umpires get better at calling balls and strikes (you have to use your imagination instead of an actual object (the plate). It increases your odds of making the wrong call. You really can't tell how accurate an umpire really is when using an imaginary strike zone also.
We do have a run rule that can help take care of bad pitching. Also I've seen umpires not only expand the plate width but the top and bottom of the zone. To hit these pitches you have to actually swing the bat incorrectly. Not good in my opinion.
I say call the zone the way it’s supposed to be called unless both coaches are adamant about expanding it. I also think that these same coaches (by agreeing to the expanded zone) take some accountability away from the umpire. JMO

[111411]

Has anyone ever seen "George" umpire around the Wayne County area? I think he's seriously 70-75 years old. He wears really thick glasses. He has a home plate sweeper that has a really long handle so he doesn't have to bend down. When he's the lone umpire in a game, he will stay sitting on one knee behind the catcher and try to lean to one side or the other to see the play at second for an attempted stolen base. He has come to games before with a real sling on the outside of his jacket holding his arm up. After being told he could not wear his sling while umpiring the varsity game (for obvious reasons), he kept that arm inside his jacket and hoisted it inside his sleeve for protection and made all his calls that day with one arm. Twice in one game this year, he was behind the plate and could not get up from his crouched position, and then he fell over and had to be helped up by the catcher and batter. After the second time it happened, he and the other umpire switched spots for the rest of the game. Oh, George... we're going to miss you if you ever stop umpiring. The one good thing about him, though, is that if he's told he's umpiring your game, he will be there an hour ahead of time with his wife and trusty ol' water cannister.


Oh my. Why is he still getting games?

[Small ball]

I can honestly say that I saw two of the best umpires that I have seen all year tonight at Sebring. Very consistent and accurate. Believe you me, They had to be good for me to say so. Not that I'm critical of all umps, but I know these guys had thier stuff together. What relief to see some good officiating (umping). Hats off.

[Small ball]

I think that I saw Him and His brother at a few games this year. :D

[111411]

I think that I saw Him and His brother at a few games this year. :D

They may have been in East Canton. :eek:

[Small ball]

I think their names are Earl and Carl. :D

[WoodyHayes]

My UAA meeting takes place at the nearest watering hole directly after every game. Now you know why we leave the field so quickly!
Thats funny. I love to call games in Carthage Texas for a few reasons. They have a beautifull field. They have a nice building and facilities for us to get dressed in, the quality of baseball is VERY good and they have a UNIFORMED police officer to escort the umps out the gate. These fans are very serious. Fortunately I have not had the "guy in blue" have to keep any irate fans from killing me.

[111411]

After watching a DH today, I was very disappointed in the umpiring. First off, they did not cost any one a game, that is not my claim.

The first game, the field umpire blew three calls, in favor of my son's team. The opposing head coach almost came unglued.

The second game, the field umpire blew three call the opposite way. Then stared down a player's aunt who was yelling at him. Not swearing, not calling him names, just yelling. Sounds like a defense mechanism.

Again, I am not casting any blame for any losses, I'm just commenting on the frequent missed calls that I've seen this year. The calls seem to be more frequent, than over the past several years.

[thePITman]

Oh my. Why is he still getting games?

We had him again today for 3 games. He did not blow any calls (was in the field all day), but he wore his sling in the first two games, but under his jacket. Haha.

[WoodyHayes]

I took this out of our 2008 NFHS Baseball Rulebook:
Rule 10 (Umpiring) - Article 7: Casts, splints, and braces may be worn if padded. Umpires may wear prosthesis and use mobility devices. I am not sure if he is in compliance with just a sling.
The part about "mobility devices" may seem strange, but you have to be very carefull when dealing with individuals who fall under the Americans with disability act. I have never seen a mobility devise used by an umpire.

[ucbearcats513]

hey quick question for you rule gurus, quite a strange play. Runner on second and the batter hits a line shot up the middle hitting the base umpire. The base ump is temporally winded and cant make the call so the home ump calls time and the batter is awarded first base. Then the runner on second was not aloud to advance. So was this play ruled correctly. If not how should it have been ruled?

[SWO_Sports]

hey quick question for you rule gurus, quite a strange play. Runner on second and the batter hits a line shot up the middle hitting the base umpire. The base ump is temporally winded and cant make the call so the home ump calls time and the batter is awarded first base. Then the runner on second was not aloud to advance. So was this play ruled correctly. If not how should it have been ruled?

The umpire is considered part of the field (like a base, pitching rubber, and fair territory dirt/grass). If it hit him the ball is still in play. Time should not be called until the end of the play. If the base umpire is incapacitated and could not make the call the home umpire would make the call the best he could.
My take on that is when I'm umpiring if I do not know for sure a runner is out, than he's safe. Also same goes for a strike. If I'm not absolutely sure it's a strike or I can't be in position to make the call (for whatever reason), than it's a ball.
Of course (depending on the situation) if I seen my partner (base Umpire) while I was umpiring home, get hit say in the head and it looked life threatening, I would probably call time and run out to help him.

[WoodyHayes]

The umpire is considered part of the field (like a base, pitching rubber, and fair territory dirt/grass). If it hit him the ball is still in play. Time should not be called until the end of the play. If the base umpire is incapacitated and could not make the call the home umpire would make the call the best he could.
My take on that is when I'm umpiring if I do not know for sure a runner is out, than he's safe. Also same goes for a strike. If I'm not absolutely sure it's a strike or I can't be in position to make the call (for whatever reason), than it's a ball.
Of course (depending on the situation) if I seen my partner (base Umpire) while I was umpiring home, get hit say in the head and it looked life threatening, I would probably call time and run out to help him.
I disagree. Out of the 2008 NFHS Baseball Rulebook

Rule 5: Deadball - Suspension Of Play
Article 1 - Ball becomes dead immediately (not a delayed dead ball) When:
F - A fair batted ball
1: touches a runner OR AN UMPIRE before touching any fielder and before passing any fielder other than the pitcher

In this situation the umpire would be in the "C" position" (runner on 2nd)
I would be set up behind and left of the pitcher (looking at it from home plate) (pretty much behind the edge of the dirt of the mound on the shortstop side of the mound) This ball is dead.
If a runner was on second, and the ball was hit straight up the middle and it hit the ump, he was out of postion.

[SWO_Sports]

I disagree. Out of the 2008 NFHS Baseball Rulebook

Rule 5: Deadball - Suspension Of Play
Article 1 - Ball becomes dead immediately (not a delayed dead ball) When:
F - A fair batted ball
1: touches a runner OR AN UMPIRE before touching any fielder and before passing any fielder other than the pitcher

In this situation the umpire would be in the "C" position" (runner on 2nd)
I would be set up behind and left of the pitcher (looking at it from home plate) (pretty much behind the edge of the dirt of the mound on the shortstop side of the mound) This ball is dead.
If a runner was on second, and the ball was hit straight up the middle and it hit the ump, he was out of postion.

Yes you are correct about the ball becoming dead if a fair batted ball "touches a runner OR AN UMPIRE before touching any fielder and before passing any fielder other than the pitcher". In a two man crew it would be almost impossible but it might happen in a four man crew (U2). But still would depend where the ball was hit and where the fielder was when the ball hit the Umpire. Also when someone says a hit "up the middle ", it could be anywhere between the second baseman and shortstop (not necessarily straight up the middle).
Again (depending on the situation) if I seen my partner (base Umpire) while I was umpiring home, get hit say in the head and it looked life threatening, I would probably call time and run out to help him.

[AllSports12]

The ball is dead immdeiately on this play. Batter-runner awarded first base. Other runners advance only if forced.

The umpire getting hit is not all that uncommon, especially out of the "C" postion. I've been nailed when a ball deflects off the mound.

Sometimes, the ball just seems to "lock in" on you. No matter what you do, it's not enough to get out of the way.

[SWO_Sports]

The ball is dead immdeiately on this play. Batter-runner awarded first base. Other runners advance only if forced.

The umpire getting hit is not all that uncommon, especially out of the "C" postion. I've been nailed when a ball deflects off the mound.

Sometimes, the ball just seems to "lock in" on you. No matter what you do, it's not enough to get out of the way.

You can't say automatically say "The ball is dead immdeiately on this play." It depends on where the infielder/umpire is positioned and where the ball is when striking the umpire.
Nowhere in ucbearcats513 post does he say where anyone was positioned.
(see rule 9.04 (b).
Here's the rules I base my facts on:

Whenever an umpire is hit by a batted ball and is stationed behind the infielders, the ball remains live and in play since the umpire is considered part of the ground or (let me clear my throat) dirt! In such cases, there is no interference.
Rule 9.04 86 9.04
(a) The umpire-in-chief shall stand behind the catcher. (He usually is called the plate umpire.).
(b) A field umpire may take ANY position on the playing field he thinks best suited to make impending decisions on the bases.

My Note: Some teams play a “shifted” infield position which would make the umpire change position.

Rule 2.00 (Interference) Comment: In the event the batter-runner has not reached first base, all runners shall return to the base last occupied at the time of the pitch.
(c) Umpire’s interference occurs
(1) When an umpire hinders, impedes or prevents a catcher’s throw attempting to prevent a stolen base, or
(2) When a fair ball touches an umpire on fair territory before passing a fielder.

On any interference the ball is dead.

Rule 5.09 46 5.09 The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when—
(f) A fair ball touches a runner or an umpire on fair territory before it touches an infielder including the pitcher, or touches an umpire before it has passed an infielder other than the pitcher.

Rule 6.08 57 6.08 The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when—

(d) A fair ball touches an umpire or a runner on fair territory before touching a fielder.

If a fair ball touches an umpire after having passed a fielder other than the pitcher, or having touched a fielder, including the pitcher, the ball is in play.

[ucbearcats513]

ok first i didnt mean to start such a controversial call here and for those of you who need further clarification ill give you some. The field umpire was in the spot behind the pitchers mound just a bit towards the shortstop side of the infield. He was then struck by a line drive square in the chest and grabbed his chest and had the wind knocked out of him. He was unable to make any calls. The plate umpire called time to check on the umpire and awarded the batter first base and the runner at second was not aloud to advance.

[AllSports12]

You can't say automatically say "The ball is dead immdeiately on this play." It depends on where the infielder/umpire is positioned and where the ball is when striking the umpire.
Nowhere in ucbearcats513 post does he say where anyone was positioned.
(see rule 9.04 (b).
Here's the rules I base my facts on:

Whenever an umpire is hit by a batted ball and is stationed behind the infielders, the ball remains live and in play since the umpire is considered part of the ground or (let me clear my throat) dirt! In such cases, there is no interference.
Rule 9.04 86 9.04
(a) The umpire-in-chief shall stand behind the catcher. (He usually is called the plate umpire.).
(b) A field umpire may take ANY position on the playing field he thinks best suited to make impending decisions on the bases.

My Note: Some teams play a “shifted” infield position which would make the umpire change position.

Rule 2.00 (Interference) Comment: In the event the batter-runner has not reached first base, all runners shall return to the base last occupied at the time of the pitch.
(c) Umpire’s interference occurs
(1) When an umpire hinders, impedes or prevents a catcher’s throw attempting to prevent a stolen base, or
(2) When a fair ball touches an umpire on fair territory before passing a fielder.

On any interference the ball is dead.

Rule 5.09 46 5.09 The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when—
(f) A fair ball touches a runner or an umpire on fair territory before it touches an infielder including the pitcher, or touches an umpire before it has passed an infielder other than the pitcher.

Rule 6.08 57 6.08 The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when—

(d) A fair ball touches an umpire or a runner on fair territory before touching a fielder.

If a fair ball touches an umpire after having passed a fielder other than the pitcher, or having touched a fielder, including the pitcher, the ball is in play.

Since we are talking High School ball and the original play indicated a runner on second (only) I'd be shocked that the umpire was behind anybody other than the pitcher who was trying to make a play. The ball was a "line shot" so I doubt that anyone was charging the ball.

Hence, my comment.... "The ball is dead immdeiately on this play. Batter-runner awarded first base. Other runners advance only if forced."

I am glad to see that you looked up the rule. Quite a bit different than your assumption that... The umpire is considered part of the field (like a base, pitching rubber, and fair territory dirt/grass). If it hit him the ball is still in play. isn't it ? :)

[SWO_Sports]

Since we are talking High School ball and the original play indicated a runner on second (only) I'd be shocked that the umpire was behind anybody other than the pitcher who was trying to make a play. The ball was a "line shot" so I doubt that anyone was charging the ball.

Hence, my comment.... "The ball is dead immdeiately on this play. Batter-runner awarded first base. Other runners advance only if forced."

I am glad to see that you looked up the rule. Quite a bit different than your assumption that... The umpire is considered part of the field (like a base, pitching rubber, and fair territory dirt/grass). If it hit him the ball is still in play. isn't it ? :)

No different than your assumption about something you did not see either!! Answer to your question is in my post above. :)

[WoodyHayes]

I don't think it's ever a good idea to expand the strike zone especially at the high school level. It develops bad habits for both hitters and pitchers. It also does not help umpires get better at calling balls and strikes (you have to use your imagination instead of an actual object (the plate). It increases your odds of making the wrong call. You really can't tell how accurate an umpire really is when using an imaginary strike zone also.
We do have a run rule that can help take care of bad pitching. Also I've seen umpires not only expand the plate width but the top and bottom of the zone. To hit these pitches you have to actually swing the bat incorrectly. Not good in my opinion.
I say call the zone the way it’s supposed to be called unless both coaches are adamant about expanding it. I also think that these same coaches (by agreeing to the expanded zone) take some accountability away from the umpire. JMO It does not matter if both coaches are adament about calling an "expanded" strike zone. DO NOT DO IT. It is not fair to the kids.
A major job of an umpire is "game management" I have seen good umpires who could not manage a game or coaches (never get a playoff game) A good umpire does not let coaches or fans intimidate him/her into mismanaging a game.
As a sidenote, I have only saw 1 umpire get hit with a batted ball in over 25 years of umping, playing or coaching baseball.

[thePITman]

Before the season started this year, I was told to umpire/call a spur-of-the-moment scrimmage from behind the pitcher's mound since no umpires could be found on such short notice. I was told by both coaches to have an "expanded but not outrageous" strike zone. This was since it was a scrimmage, to get the kids swinging. :)

[SWO_Sports]

It does not matter if both coaches are adament about calling an "expanded" strike zone. DO NOT DO IT. It is not fair to the kids.
A major job of an umpire is "game management" I have seen good umpires who could not manage a game or coaches (never get a playoff game) A good umpire does not let coaches or fans intimidate him/her into mismanaging a game.
As a sidenote, I have only saw 1 umpire get hit with a batted ball in over 25 years of umping, playing or coaching baseball.

I agree with you, Hence my above quote "I don't think it's ever a good idea to expand the strike zone". I've only used an expanded strike zone in LL at the 9/10 year old league once; both coaches requested it (I knew both coaches and it had nothing to do with "game management"). I would not do it again. I know even back then I would have refused to do that in High School Ball (seen it several times already this year). Not Good!
I don't recall ever seeing an Umpire get hit either except for me. I umpired a playoff game in the U2 spot (four man crew). I was behind second base when a ground ball was reflected off the second baseman’s glove and hit me in the foot (felt really dumb) because I just froze for some reason (thought I should have gotten out of the way).
Anyway, I agree with you that "it's not fair to the kids" and takes away from the game to call a game any other way but the way it was designed to be played! :thumb:

[Whoknows]

Well Today was the first time we had a bad umpire. Congrats to the umps on a great year to this point. Hope the next one is better. This umpire's strike zone was large and extrememly inconsistent, sometimes within the same at bat. Today was the first time an umpire has had an impact on a game for us this season.

[tribefan721]

Got to say the umpiring around Butler County has been much, much worse this year, to the point of being embarrassingly bad. I've seen quite a few games this year and the umps have been awful, particularly behind the plate. No consistency, strike zones that are laughable and change from pitch to pitch, makeup calls that aren't even close. It's so bad the local association really needs to consider sending people out to review the umps' performances to get a true picture of what's going on. So many of these umps are either out to screw particular teams or they're just incompetent. Neither should ever be acceptable. :wallbang: :wallbang: :wallbang: :wallbang: