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CincyHoopRef
02-26-08, 08:14 PM
OHSAA Referee tournament selection 101 (or so they tell me)

Each of the 6 District Athletic Boards assign their own tournament which includes sectionals and districts. The OHSAA assigns the Regionals and state.

Each district board's tournament assignor is given the list of officials from OHSAA that earned their way on to the State, Regional and Sectional / District and alternate lists (aka pools). The district board has a lot of leeway as to who they assign on their portion of the tournament but in general, it appears that if you are in the state pool, you are likely to work a sectional final and a district but that is not set in stone. I don't believe there are any absolute guidelines on who they use or when and how many games they are actually assigned. We have heard that OHSAA has asked that the district board assignors to try to pair up people who are for sure going to work regionals and state if possible.

The ranking process works as follows. Officials are ranked and assigned to pools by a score. This score is determined by taking the official's individual coach ratings average times the votes an official receives. The higher the score, the higher the pool an official is put in. Officials will have a score or ranking for boys and a score or ranking for girls. These are considered for both tournaments.

Officials can receive votes from ADs, their officials association, district athletic board members, assignors and I believe the state can toss in a vote (not 100% on that last part)

Officials are only rated by coaches that have them on games on a 1 (bad) to 5 (excellent) scale. Its the experience of most officials that less than half of the coaches are rating their games. It's a belief that most of the ADs are not participating (voting) either at this point. I think in general, that will change as OHSAA's online system for this process becomes more widely accepted.

Note: The ranking and pool assignment for this year's tournament is based on last year's score. The pool list is released to the public right around the start of the season. Tournament officials are typically notified they are getting games from the District Athletic Board right before the season starts as well. The State and Regional assignments come out around Christmas. Officials are assigned dates and times but who they will actually have team wise will depend on the team drawing before the tournament in early February I believe. In other words, the brackets are made out and the officials are assigned to a bracket spot. I don't believe the coaches know which officials they are drawing, they only know what bracket position they are picking.

I'm not going to say there is nothing you can do to lose a post season assignment but I will say the only people I have heard of losing games are people that lose them to weather and cant work the makeup for whatever reason.

The actual rank and number of votes for each official is not made public knowledge however, each official can look up his rating avg in both boy's and girls. When the pools are announced, they are done by pool, alphabetically so you at least know you are at a certain level.

From what I have heard, most tournament officials have a rating avg near 4 out of 5 but that is not necessarily a lock to get you tournament games.

Some factors to consider is that early on, the tournament is played every night of the week so availability of officials comes into play. Overlapping tournament schedules with the boys and girls tournament comes into play. Illness, weather, injury, work all come into play in who is actually available to work.

It's been recently communicated to the officials associations by the South West District Board that past tournament experience, the ability of the official and the level of games the official usually works are not a variable taken into consideration in the assignment of sectional and district games. These factors should have had an impact on the overall ranking the official receives from the state rating process. In other words, its assumed that if an official is on the boys state list for example, he is capable of working anything from a D4 first round game to a D1 District and anything in-between.

So, when you hear officials say "the coaches put them there", there is some truth to that but the reality is more along the lines of the ADs and assignors votes are what is really getting them there. You can be an average official but if the ADs really like you, you will score well in the rankings and therefore, should do well in getting post season assignments.

I personally think that the burdens of coaching and the work load of ADs on top of their real jobs leave them apathetic towards the ratings process. Its just one more thing to do and most feel they already have enough on their plate.

We hear it all the time that entire leagues are not voting or major programs in the south west are not rating. That may be a subject for another thread but the officiating community that wants to work tournament is starting to take a look at that. Why work a league that doesn't support it's officiating staff's post season aspirations is a question being whispered by refs around our part of the state.

Well there it is, my best guess based on what I have heard and read to date. I'm sure there are enough refs on here to fill in the blanks for me if I missed anything.

111411
02-26-08, 08:22 PM
OHSAA Referee tournament selection 101 (or so they tell me)

Each of the 6 District Athletic Boards assign their own tournament which includes sectionals and districts. The OHSAA assigns the Regionals and state.

Each district board's tournament assignor is given the list of officials from OHSAA that earned their way on to the State, Regional and Sectional / District and alternate lists (aka pools). The district board has a lot of leeway as to who they assign on their portion of the tournament but in general, it appears that if you are in the state pool, you are likely to work a sectional final and a district but that is not set in stone. I don't believe there are any absolute guidelines on who they use or when and how many games they are actually assigned. We have heard that OHSAA has asked that the district board assignors to try to pair up people who are for sure going to work regionals and state if possible.

The ranking process works as follows. Officials are ranked and assigned to pools by a score. This score is determined by taking the official's individual coach ratings average times the votes an official receives. The higher the score, the higher the pool an official is put in. Officials will have a score or ranking for boys and a score or ranking for girls. These are considered for both tournaments.

Officials can receive votes from ADs, their officials association, district athletic board members, assignors and I believe the state can toss in a vote (not 100% on that last part)

Officials are only rated by coaches that have them on games on a 1 (bad) to 5 (excellent) scale. Its the experience of most officials that less than half of the coaches are rating their games. It's a belief that most of the ADs are not participating (voting) either at this point. I think in general, that will change as OHSAA's online system for this process becomes more widely accepted.

Note: The ranking and pool assignment for this year's tournament is based on last year's score. The pool list is released to the public right around the start of the season. Tournament officials are typically notified they are getting games from the District Athletic Board right before the season starts as well. The State and Regional assignments come out around Christmas. Officials are assigned dates and times but who they will actually have team wise will depend on the team drawing before the tournament in early February I believe. In other words, the brackets are made out and the officials are assigned to a bracket spot. I don't believe the coaches know which officials they are drawing, they only know what bracket position they are picking.

I'm not going to say there is nothing you can do to lose a post season assignment but I will say the only people I have heard of losing games are people that lose them to weather and cant work the makeup for whatever reason.

The actual rank and number of votes for each official is not made public knowledge however, each official can look up his rating avg in both boy's and girls. When the pools are announced, they are done by pool, alphabetically so you at least know you are at a certain level.

From what I have heard, most tournament officials have a rating avg near 4 out of 5 but that is not necessarily a lock to get you tournament games.

Some factors to consider is that early on, the tournament is played every night of the week so availability of officials comes into play. Overlapping tournament schedules with the boys and girls tournament comes into play. Illness, weather, injury, work all come into play in who is actually available to work.

It's been recently communicated to the officials associations by the South West District Board that past tournament experience, the ability of the official and the level of games the official usually works are not a variable taken into consideration in the assignment of sectional and district games. These factors should have had an impact on the overall ranking the official receives from the state rating process. In other words, its assumed that if an official is on the boys state list for example, he is capable of working anything from a D4 first round game to a D1 District and anything in-between.

So, when you hear officials say "the coaches put them there", there is some truth to that but the reality is more along the lines of the ADs and assignors votes are what is really getting them there. You can be an average official but if the ADs really like you, you will score well in the rankings and therefore, should do well in getting post season assignments.

I personally think that the burdens of coaching and the work load of ADs on top of their real jobs leave them apathetic towards the ratings process. Its just one more thing to do and most feel they already have enough on their plate.

We hear it all the time that entire leagues are not voting or major programs in the south west are not rating. That may be a subject for another thread but the officiating community that wants to work tournament is starting to take a look at that. Why work a league that doesn't support it's officiating staff's post season aspirations is a question being whispered by refs around our part of the state.

Well there it is, my best guess based on what I have heard and read to date. I'm sure there are enough refs on here to fill in the blanks for me if I missed anything.

Thank you. Great post and excellent information.

BusinessEnd
02-26-08, 09:08 PM
the whole online ranking system is flawed anyways because officials can figure out - not always but with a certain degree of confidence - what schools (coaches or AD's) are rating them. i've heard several discussions among officials saying that a certain coach had rated them a score they didn't feel they deserved after a game. to me that is completely wrong and could lead to some hard feelings between officials and coaches. as a former coach i know that some officials do not get along with certain coaches - and being able to determine a game's ranking could only inflame these disagreements. i think the online ranking system should be completely anonymous until April 1st. the tournament is done then and since this year's ranking only matters for next year's tournament it doesn't matter. i think the only feedback officials should get during the season should be from the assignor who gave them the game. most assignors are former officials and if a coach or AD has a problem with an official it should go through the assignor first. that being said - good luck to all the officials who have tournament games from here on out. the vast majority that will officiate district games and beyond are excellent officials, at least in southwest ohio.

CincyHoopRef
02-26-08, 09:50 PM
the whole online ranking system is flawed anyways because officials can figure out - not always but with a certain degree of confidence - what schools (coaches or AD's) are rating them. i've heard several discussions among officials saying that a certain coach had rated them a score they didn't feel they deserved after a game.

This is no longer the case with the new myOHSAA system that started at the beginning of this season. We now have no idea who rated us or what they gave us. We are only able to see our ratings after 5 ratings have been submitted and have no bearing how the number got there. Info on who is rating that I have implied is from the last couple of seasons when this system was put in place and feedback from many sources on the matter.

From our end, one major flaw is that if we have to give a T to a coach, we can pretty much count on a 1 rating whether we deserve it or not. Believe me, they "get even". I know this is a factor on how some officials manage their games, I've seen it in action. Contrast that to college where officials are now told to take care of bench decorum or lose your assignments. Anyone catch Bruce Pearl getting whacked in the Tenn / X game for being out of the coaches box? How many times have you seen that in high school? I'm going to go with almost never.

We are also subject to people judging our abilities in some cases without any understanding of officiating. They only know they won or lost and liked or disliked our calls. In a lot of cases, they have no idea what we are supposed to be and trained to be looking at on any given play or the actual rules in question.

There is no perfect system. Some people hated the old one. Different people hate this one. At the end of the day, you really shouldn't get into officiating only for the tournament assignments. You will be disappointed if you do.

Yellow_Jacket06
03-09-09, 01:03 AM
I've only seen one incompetent ref so far this tourney.

He called two T's one on both teams during one game. The first instance a player dunked and had a player underneath him so he hung on the rim while looking down so he wouldn't come down on top of that player. It is my understanding there is an exception to that rule for safety reasons.

The second instance was when a Coach wanted an explanation for a call. He was conversing with one official by the bench and from all the way at the other end of the floor the same official T'd up the Coach when he wasn't anywhere near the discussion.

Seems like he totally wanted to be a part of the game. Other than that I think they have done a fine job thus far.

sunshine
03-09-09, 09:55 AM
I also believe, that the coaches can pick refs that they do not want to work their games. I dont remember how many it is, but I do remember when I was playing, our coach filling out a sheet and striking off some officials that we did not want. I think this was only at the sectional and district level.

Roady21
03-09-09, 10:37 AM
OHSAA Referee tournament selection 101 (or so they tell me)

Each of the 6 District Athletic Boards assign their own tournament which includes sectionals and districts. The OHSAA assigns the Regionals and state.




Officials can receive votes from ADs, their officials association, district athletic board members, assignors and I believe the state can toss in a vote (not 100% on that last part)

Officials are only rated by coaches that have them on games on a 1 (bad) to 5 (excellent) scale. Its the experience of most officials that less than half of the coaches are rating their games. It's a belief that most of the ADs are not participating (voting) either at this point. I think in general, that will change as OHSAA's online system for this process becomes more widely accepted.

From what I have heard, most tournament officials have a rating avg near 4 out of 5 but that is not necessarily a lock to get you tournament games.



I personally think that the burdens of coaching and the work load of ADs on top of their real jobs leave them apathetic towards the ratings process. Its just one more thing to do and most feel they already have enough on their plate.


You are for the most part correct in your description CHR, but the bottom line is this....HZ has fianlly got a "vague" enough formula for selecting his officials to call the regional and state games.....In essence he can put whomever he wants to work those games. Like it or not there is no checks and balances with his selections due to the fact not all of the formula is made public. This has been coming for some time and when Mr Muscaro left the bldg and Mr Ross entered.... so did this plan.