2008 Buckeye Scout Top 100

[insdieman]

To see it go to http://thebuckeyescout.com/ click on News link and click on 2008 top 100.

So far they have the top 20 up and will continue to add each week. Congrats to all the players. Your dedication has got you to this point, keep up the hard work and good luck at the next level. :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Hometeam]

How do they rank these kids? Is speed the most important factor? When you have many good players, like these kids are, I would think a lot of these rankings are very subjective because what if you hit really well but someone is better defensively or your agility is good but your speed isn't below a 7. Do pitchers automatically get ranked higher than position players? Do they take grades into consideration? Do the college coaches look at this or by this time, have they already selected their players? Just curious.

[BENSPAPA8]

Fish does a good job of identifying the invitees. Many of them were also recommended by college coaches and scouts to be in attendance. The event includes all the showcase activities, including running the 60, defense and arm strength, and BP.

The pitchers show their stuff in the games played. All of this info is compiled along with whatever information has been accumulated already.

One thing for sure, all these kids are talented and should be congratulated.:clap:

[chip2th]

wow, i thought nastold would be #1 in this class for sure

[FlashFan]

wow, i thought nastold would be #1 in this class for sure

I wouldn't worry much about where they are ranked. They are all pretty good and as long as they get to a college that really wants them, and the player wants the college it is all good. I agree with BENSPAPA that Fish does a very good job getting the right kids there. He is pretty in tune with the College coaches, High School caoches and some other well known sources.

[AmericaOne]

I wouldn't worry much about where they are ranked. They are all pretty good and as long as they get to a college that really wants them, and the player wants the college it is all good. I agree with BENSPAPA that Fish does a very good job getting the right kids there. He is pretty in tune with the College coaches, High School caoches and some other well known sources.

Are these players who have attended a showcase in Northern Ohio. It seems to be missing some very strong players from Southern Ohio.

[TheKid08]

i think ryan curl is the best player in ohio for the class of 08'. throws 90+ from the outfield and runs a 6.2 60. i think the rankings are pretty accurate

[BENSPAPA8]

Are these players who have attended a showcase in Northern Ohio. It seems to be missing some very strong players from Southern Ohio.

If you look at the initial Top 20, most are from the southern region

[jus do it]

Exactly! Where's Randy Jones at? or Jimmy Brennamen, he was first team all-state as a junior last season! None of these guys were on the first team, except Curl but thats D-2!BJ Willis, who was a big key for princeton's success last year, committed to UC and cant crack the top 20? If there not basing things off of accomplishments Colt Cattani should be on there even though he didn't have the best spring last year, but can play with the best of them any given day..

[Hometeam]

I still think a lot of these rankings are very subjective; no matter how good of an eye for talent these scouts may have, they can't measure work ethic, how hard a certain kid is going to work to improve over the course of several years (lifting, speed training, etc.), how focused they'll be, etc. These intangibles are very important. I think they are just as important, if not even more important, than, say, how fast a kid is clocked in his senior year of high school. How can someone say one kid is #64 on the list and another is #77 when they may play completely different positions, etc.? Don't get me wrong, though. I'm sure all of these kids are extremely talented, and they all deserve to be there. Congratulations to all of them.

[The Big X]

I also believe every kid on the list is a very talented player and the other 80 named to the top 100 will be talented players also. Some will be way over rated and some will be way under rated. Additionally, there will be players not on the top 100 list that are very talented players. Unfortunately that is the way it goes with rankings and even with college recruiting. Baseball is a game that you must see players a number of times to really see their talent against top competition. A player can look great one day and average the next depending on the competition. Some players rise to the occasion to make the big play or get the big hit against the best players and are always in the right spot, others only excel against competition that is not up to the highest standards and are not fundamentally sound which hurts them against top competition. It is very judgemental and based also on 60 times, height, weight and reputations as told by people that are not always biased. Some players have the advantage of having coaches that talk them up to scouts, dad's that run organizations that use their connections with scouting organizations to talk their kid up and/or get them exposure they normally wouldn't earn on their own merits, etc.

Rankings are neat to look at and talk about but the key for players is to continue to get better and to learn more about the game as that will ultimately lead to continued success at whatever college/pro level a player plays at.

[Hometeam]

I agree. Also, I'm sure there are some very good ballplayers who weren't even invited to this showcase (and who should have been) for whatever reason. It helps for the player to have someone in their corner who will help them reach the next level. There are some very talented players out there who, for some reason, just don't get the recognition they deserve.

[AmericaOne]

i think ryan curl is the best player in ohio for the class of 08'. throws 90+ from the outfield and runs a 6.2 60. i think the rankings are pretty accurate

Ryan Curl is in good company with Carl Lewis 6.12 in the 60 held the World Record for years and Lee Mcrae who holds the World Record at 5.99 in the 60.

[AmericaOne]

TheKid08:

Where did the 6.2 time come from for Ryan Curl. I heard Miami had him at 6.5. If that is the case Randy Jones was timed at Midland in the Champion's Summer Showcase at a legit 6.46 and 6.47 respectively beating another strong Speedster Jimmy Brenneman at the same camp. I think is was Randy, Jimmy and Dorian West with the best times. Dorian is in the Top 100 but Randy Jones and Jimmy Brenneman should be there too. Both these young men play on top level summer programs, hit for power and are strong on the base paths.

[tapNeo]

I agree with BensPapa. Fish does a very good job with the list. His Top 10 will be very accurate from year to year. The evaluation is not solely based upon the players performance at the Buckeye Scout events. I've seen several situations where some of the players in the Top 3 didn't even show-up at the August showcase due to committments elsewhere. Your always going to have good players that may not be ranked where they feel they should be ranked, but Fish does a good job of talking with high school, college, and pro scouts who have seen these kids on several different occasions. What I also see are several Ohio players who play in weak conferences with bloated stats vs. inferior competition. As a result, these players, their friends, and their mom's and dad's all believe they are All Ohio.
The scouts don't lie. Fish has a good network of contacts in the state who do a fair evaluation of the talent in the state.

[theoldpro]

America One Randy Jones Has The Speed + Randy Will Get A Good Reading On The Ball Off The Bat And You Can See How Good Outfielder Randy Is .

[tapNeo]

Gentlemen, what is the point of arguing a kids speed. Don't get into petty arguments over something so trivial. Either a kid is fast, or he's not. I'm sure your not going to be arguing with a college coach during an official visit that "my son can really run a 6.2, despite you having him at 6.45". It's like alot of posters getting on here saying that "I've seen this kid throw 90+mph, he's been seen by alot of pro scouts, he's got interest from several top D1 programs, etc. etc.". There just aren't many of these kids out there. If there are, don't worry you will hear plenty about them, and the scouts will be fully aware of their talent level. As a rule of thumb, I never believe what anyone writes on these boards about a kid running a certain time, or throwing a ball at a certain mph, etc. And when I read about a kid hitting for a .600+ batting average, or hitting 15+ HR's, my first thought is that his high school team most likely is playing against some pretty crappy competition, in a pretty crappy league. I'm not saying it never happens, but when those types of kids come along, your going to see them playing at a Top D1 school and starting their Freshman season, and/or being drafted by the pros in the Top 5 rounds.

[TheKid08]

TheKid08:

Where did the 6.2 time come from for Ryan Curl. I heard Miami had him at 6.5. If that is the case Randy Jones was timed at Midland in the Champion's Summer Showcase at a legit 6.46 and 6.47 respectively beating another strong Speedster Jimmy Brenneman at the same camp. I think is was Randy, Jimmy and Dorian West with the best times. Dorian is in the Top 100 but Randy Jones and Jimmy Brenneman should be there too. Both these young men play on top level summer programs, hit for power and are strong on the base paths.

curl has been clocked 3 times running under a 6.30.. his best was a 6.23.

[Cattani]

Those are off then...all 3 of them.

[logitech]

Those are off then...all 3 of them.

Just to note the American Indoor (55meter) record is 6.0. This was done on an indoor rubber track in a highly competitive situation in 1986 with electronic timing. This person had indoor spikes and started with blocks for added explosion. (55 meters is 60 yards 5 inches). High schoolers that run 6.3 or less on grass from an upright start should train to be Olympic runners. Point is these players are very fast but times are not exact and not near a 6.2.

[Hometeam]

It seems like coaches are so obsessed with speed - why not pick a young man because he's a good ball player? What good is speed if the kid isn't a good hitter or a smart baserunner or isn't agile at scooping the balls to make the plays? Track stars do not necessarily equate into good baseball players and this is where scouts and coaches are making their biggest mistakes. Just my 2 cents worth!

[GCPRO]

Speed and arm strength can't be taught. Hitting, defense, base running, playing the game, etc. can be taught in their opinion. Not saying it is right, just the way it is viewed.

[Wolfman1]

Top 50 according to the Buckeye Scout are now available for review.

[TheKid08]

It seems like coaches are so obsessed with speed - why not pick a young man because he's a good ball player? What good is speed if the kid isn't a good hitter or a smart baserunner or isn't agile at scooping the balls to make the plays? Track stars do not necessarily equate into good baseball players and this is where scouts and coaches are making their biggest mistakes. Just my 2 cents worth!

most scouts look at potential and if you run a 6.5 or under and throw 90+ from the outfield you can't teach that.. you can teach a kid how to hit and field better..

[Sportsfanatc]

curl has been clocked 3 times running under a 6.30.. his best was a 6.23.

No way.

[Hometeam]

most scouts look at potential and if you run a 6.5 or under and throw 90+ from the outfield you can't teach that.. you can teach a kid how to hit and field better..

I disagree. Some young men will never be good hitters - and they can take all the lessons in the world. It all has to do with hand/eye coordination plus timing. If you can teach hitting, why do we keep hearing about all these college coaches pissing and moaning that their bats were cold which is why they lost the game? It's because the batters can't hit; what good is running like a track star if you can't ever get on base? I'm not saying speed isn't important - but it seems like on these threads, some coaches are obsessed with it.

[TheKid08]

No way.

whether accurate or not at a showcase a scout started his stop watch at 0 and stopped it a 6.23.. so how are you saying no way?

[TheKid08]

I disagree. Some young men will never be good hitters - and they can take all the lessons in the world. It all has to do with hand/eye coordination plus timing. If you can teach hitting, why do we keep hearing about all these college coaches pissing and moaning that their bats were cold which is why they lost the game? It's because the batters can't hit; what good is running like a track star if you can't ever get on base? I'm not saying speed isn't important - but it seems like on these threads, some coaches are obsessed with it.

i agree that a kid who is fast and can throw and cant hit at all shouldnt get the same chances as a kid who has average speed who can throw and hit.. but if it comes down to a kid being an average hitter with great speed and a great arm most coaches or scouts are going to put them ahead of a kid who can hit and has a good arm but is slow.. b.c coaches and scouts beleive that hitting can be improved a lot easier than speed and they can't teach speed. speed is a big part of baseball and can change a lot of games

[chip2th]

i doubt it

[Hometeam]

speed is a big part of baseball and can change a lot of games

Hitting, imo, is an even bigger part of baseball. But I realize I'm apparently not thinking like a coach since they value speed above all else.

[Sportsfanatc]

whether accurate or not at a showcase a scout started his stop watch at 0 and stopped it a 6.23.. so how are you saying no way?

and this happened 3 times? NO WAY. Someone is lying to you or if you think you saw this then you are dillusional. http://www.gbrathletics.com/wrec.htm

The world record (indoors) is 6.39 by Maurice Green..............

[logitech]

and this happened 3 times? NO WAY. Someone is lying to you or if you think you saw this then you are dillusional. http://www.gbrathletics.com/wrec.htm

The world record (indoors) is 6.39 by Maurice Green..............

60 Meters is not equql to 60 yards!!!

[TheKid08]

60 meters is closer to 70 yards and i never said he was timed on electronic timing system.. a scout had it on his stop watch

[Sportsfanatc]

60 meters is closer to 70 yards and i never said he was timed on electronic timing system.. a scout had it on his stop watch

3 times? I still say no way

[Fresh Prince]

I know Ryan very well, and I have coached against several D1 athletes over my career. Ryan is by far the fastest high school player that I ever seen. He is a well deserving student athlete, that has worked hard over his career to earn the top prospect in Ohio. Ryan will excel at Miami and will be one of top draft choices out of Ohio next year.

[TheKid08]

i have played with ryan and against players like ricky finley, brenneman, and west.. and he plays the outfield better than any of them, has a very strong arm can run and knows how to track a baseball, can improve hitting but isnt a bad hitter at all

[jus do it]

i want to see this kid play!

[insdieman]

I saw Ryan Curl play at UC and Miami(OH) this year for that Midwest Redbirds team. It really is a joy to watch him play. His hitting ability is pretty good because he knows to hit it on the ground to utilize his 6.23 speed and to watch him go and get a ball in the outfield is amazing. I would say that he most likely will be the first Ohio HS player to be drafted in June.

[AmericaOne]

i have played with ryan and against players like ricky finley, brenneman, and west.. and he plays the outfield better than any of them, has a very strong arm can run and knows how to track a baseball, can improve hitting but isnt a bad hitter at all

I was told Ryan Curl Won outstanding player at the CABA WS in East Cobb this past season. If this is true why was he playing on a 16U team. Is he a young senior like Adam. West is pretty good and so is Brenneman. And West can hit the dog do do out of a ball. West hits for power to all fields and will be drafted 5 home runs out and 4 in the park home runs last year for West. He Played up in the 18's as well as 17's last year. I would imagine this young man could have played on a 17U team last season. He looks like a tremendous athlete.

[GCPRO]

America One-I would have imagined you would have this kid scouted(Curl). You are the foremost authority on SWO baseball. I understand some of the kids from last season's WSLL all-star group is playing in your organization this summer, good for them.
I saw the Brenneman kid play in the State tourney last year, a good looking player and I see he is rated pretty high on the Buckeye Scout list. The JC he has committed is a quality program from what I understand. Good luck to all!

[AmericaOne]

GCPRO: Just wondering how a player (although very gifted and a good athlete) playing in a 16U Division was picked as the top pick in the Buckeye 50 when guys like Randy Jones were left completely off, who played in the 17' and 18's. Alot of difference between 16 and 18. Now I know that Randy will be in the top 100, but Randy will also be going to a D1 school as a centerfielder who can play multiple positions well. Other top players who are seniors who played in th 17/18 Division this past summer are Dorian West #8 on the list and Jimmy Brenneman #26 I believe on the list, while some very talented players were left off the list John Kennedy from Loveland, Brent Suter, Moeller Harvard Bound..... When you give a guy the number one spot all things should be considered. As for the young studs from the West Side who have joined the Ohio Heat 13U. They are TOP level players and will make the Ohio Heat 13U a force to be considered this year. Nichting played with the 12's some last year and Cotkamp sp, Green, and Richards should add tremendously to a very talented bunch coming off a 58-16 12U season. They have a great Manager in Mark Jones and a very good Head Coach in Brian Phelps (Head Coach) at Seven Hills. They have there own indoor training facility in Fairfield that is very nice 12,000 square feet with Dirt Mounds, three or four hitting tunnels and a nice area for indoor fielding. The 13's are also being trained by Bill Doran, Senior, Mikes Stefanski (bull pen catcher for the Reds), and a number of top level pitching and hitting instructors. The 13 Ohio Heat will be very good and I believe the West Side Little League players will certainly help. If you get a chance stop by the facility on Standen, accross from Fairfield Senior High.

[GCPRO]

America One- thanks for the offer, but I'm not sure I qualify with that group of baseball talent, both playing wise and coaching wise. But thanks, non-the-less.
As for the Buckeye Scout-the guy that runs it does a real good job. He is gonna miss on some players for sure, but it is just a list, no more, no less. I saw the Dietrich kid from St. Ignatius last year play a couple of times, I believe he might have been in the top 1-5(I could look, but I'm lazy) signed with Georgia Tech I believe and was drafted. Now he had some obvious physical skills but I thought the SS from Lakota West(Gschwind?) was a much better player. Like women, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and far smarter people than myself were enamored with Dietrich(he also seemed to have an elitest attitude the few times I saw him). Just an example.

[Milford14]

wow, i thought nastold would be #1 in this class for sure

i totally agree with you. Nastold is a stud he should be #1

There is a kid from Colerain who is a junior Nicholas Prissman who is a stud as well. My son played against him in summer ball and in high school ball and the kid can play centrfield better than alot of people i have seen on this top 100 list. If he has a strong year this year watch out for him to be in the top 10 next season.

[Wolfman1]

Mr. Fisher is the gentleman that runs TBS. Good guy. In addition to their own recruiting efforts, colleges subscribe to TBS for player evaluation assistance as well as access to the Buckeye Scout Games. The BSG (late summer) which are invitation only had approximately 35 colleges and 15 or so major league scouts in attendance. The games pit top Ohio players against each other. Great experience!

Mr. Fisher like other scouts isn’t perfect. He misses some players but by and large does an excellent job.

[jus do it]

Prissman batted .295? How could you compare him at all to any of the elite outfielders in the gmc? West, Brenneman, and Bluestein? go to www.gmcsports.com and compare his stats to those three outfielders and tell me how he stacks up!

[midlandbaseball07]

tht list is alwaysss weird every year. lotta guys on there that should be, lotta guys on there that shouldnt be n lotta guys that arent on therre that should be!! how that list doesnt have studs that id love on my 9 over almost all those guys like my boy jr reynolds, drew ernst, andy lamping, pat curtin, billy rumpke! thats a jokeee mann!! u gotta know that, no matter who u are

[Yellow_Jacket06]

Congrats to Joe Engle from Sidney for his #33 ranking.

He was one of the few players for Sidney who could hit off Nastold in last year's district title game.

Look forward to following Sidney baseball again this coming season!

[Milford14]

Prissman batted .295? How could you compare him at all to any of the elite outfielders in the gmc? West, Brenneman, and Bluestein? go to www.gmcsports.com and compare his stats to those three outfielders and tell me how he stacks up!

yes he had a alright hitting year but did you see some of the catches he made in the outfield???? He was only a sophomore, he has two more solid years. I put him up against those three in the outdield anyday. If he works on his hitting and gets stronger just watch.

P.S. he is a switch hitter :)

[AmericaOne]

yes he had a alright hitting year but did you see some of the catches he made in the outfield???? He was only a sophomore, he has two more solid years. I put him up against those three in the outdield anyday. If he works on his hitting and gets stronger just watch.

P.S. he is a switch hitter :)

Son, Dorian West is not only on a complete ride at UC he has played up since he was 13U. He is now playing in the 18U where he should be and I look for him to surpass the 9 home runs he had last year 5 totally out and 4 in the park playing up a full year. He was followed last year by the Yankees and was one of 5 chosen to go to Florida with them at the beginning of August. Dorian hits for power, is fast on the bases and last year he and Dixon scored on a Sacrifice fly from second and third base on a tag up. Ever see that before at 18U? His brother plays in the minor leagues and Dorian will be drafted.. Not only these things but he is player everyone likes. Unselfish, team all the way.

[jus do it]

thank you a-1. Obviously you haven't seen some of the catches dorian and jimmy have made.

[BENSPAPA8]

Congratulations to all the guys who signed. About baseball grants and "full rides".

For the Class of 2008, college D1 coaches can have a maximum of 30 counters to split 11.7 grants assuming they are fully funded. Certain needs based financial assistance, most of it, would also count toward the 11.7.

Academic monies also would count against the team unless certain criteria, such as a HS 3.5 GPA are met.

With 25% minimum baseball money mandated to be given to each counter, that equals 7.5 full grants. The remaining 4.2 equivalencies can be split up and awarded to the 30 counters, and upperclass pitchers would get the lions share.

A full ride would be blended baseball money, minimum 25%, and the balance of the COA in exception based academic money.

Show me an awards letter with 100% baseball money and then show us all a real unicorn??

[Wolfman1]

Benspar speaks the truth. I know of only one player in the greater Midwest area on a “true full ride”. It’s extremely unusual. Coaches will normally spend most of the resources on the mound and in the spine (catcher, SS, 2B, and CF).

[AmericaOne]

From the Buckeye Scout Dorian West #8 and also the TBS ALL SCOUT TEAM and Casey Henn #27 team mates from the Ohio Heat 18U. I am sure the top 100 will include Randy Jones, John Kennedy, and a few others from the same summer team..

[insdieman]

Congrats to Ross Oltorik and Greg Williams being ranked in the Ohio top 15. Oltorik is # 3 and Williams # 14, teammates for Moeller and Midland.

[NEWZIP]

Congrats to all of the players on the list. Good luck to you all as most of you will go on to play at the next level.

To add to what Benspapa is saying and he is right, no on gets 100%, scholarships are given and taken away just as fast as they are given, hopefully with these new NCAA rules it will eliminate players being ran off and their money given to someone else or several others. If a deal sounds too good to be true,then it probably is, so ask the coach a lot of questions and get things in writing too, or record conversations if necessary. College sports is a business and politics and money is the bottom line. Baseball has the least amount too. Good Luck and follow your dreams.

If anyone needs any help or has any questions answered from a family that has been through the extreme ups and extreme downs of college recruiting and college baseball in a whole, please feel free to contact us. The recruiting process and choosing a college should be the most exciting times of your lives, enjoy all that it has to offer, and ask lots of questions too. Contact me if you need anything at all, I am just a parent that wants to help anyone at all.

mgwblessed@aol.com

[pnthrz4life]

The top 70 has come, and I have one question. Where the heck is Ronnie Stout? He is a better hitter, fielder, and even pitcher than half the guys on there. In fact, I think he is one of the top 20 hitters in the state.

[insdieman]

The top 70 has come, and I have one question. Where the heck is Ronnie Stout? He is a better hitter, fielder, and even pitcher than half the guys on there. In fact, I think he is one of the top 20 hitters in the state.

No way Ronnie is even close to a top 20 hitter in the state. There is a reason he is going to Buffalo to play ball. Not taking anything away from him because he got a scholarship but he is a top 50 player in the state.

[BBallMan]

Congratulations to all the guys who signed. About baseball grants and "full rides".

For the Class of 2008, college D1 coaches can have a maximum of 30 counters to split 11.7 grants assuming they are fully funded. Certain needs based financial assistance, most of it, would also count toward the 11.7.

Academic monies also would count against the team unless certain criteria, such as a HS 3.5 GPA are met.

With 25% minimum baseball money mandated to be given to each counter, that equals 7.5 full grants. The remaining 4.2 equivalencies can be split up and awarded to the 30 counters, and upperclass pitchers would get the lions share.

A full ride would be blended baseball money, minimum 25%, and the balance of the COA in exception based academic money.

Show me an awards letter with 100% baseball money and then show us all a real unicorn??

Benspapa is right on. There is no one on a full baseball scholarship. If you are getting 33% you are a stud. There just isn't enough money to go around. I know from experience.

[BBallMan]

No way Ronnie is even close to a top 20 hitter in the state. There is a reason he is going to Buffalo to play ball. Not taking anything away from him because he got a scholarship but he is a top 50 player in the state.

I don't know this young man but don't knock him for going to Buffalo . Sometimes a player can go just about anywhere but chooses a school because he feels comfortable there instead of going to a much larger school. Baseball is a great sport where if you are good enough the pro scouts will find you where ever you go to school.

[SUMUMP]

I don't know this young man but don't knock him for going to Buffalo . Sometimes a player can go just about anywhere but chooses a school because he feels comfortable there instead of going to a much larger school. Baseball is a great sport where if you are good enough the pro scouts will find you where ever you go to school.

Thanks for some sanity, BBM. Most of these guys think you have to go to a big D1 school to be a top player. How many stories have you heard of kids getting in and then riding the pine for 4 years, or getting run off or just quitting? One thing I can tell you is that you won't be seen by scouts on the bench.
In my 9 years umping I have seen a lot of these northern Ohio guys play. Ron Stout is one of the best. He can hit, run, play the infield and is one of the most fierce competitors on the mound I have seen. He belongs top 50. If there is one thing I question about the B.S. rankings, is the fact that there are quite a few one dimensional players in the top 70. I don't mean to disparage those that are on the list, but I think it takes more than a bunch of homeruns or sprinter speed to make the top 70/100. The top 100 should be kids that can hit, run and play the field. Again, to qualify my remarks, all these players deserve recognition, but I believe there are glaring exclusions on the list.

[BENSPAPA8]

Approximately 120,000 high school varsity baseball seniors graduate each year in the country to fill about 6000 open roster spots in all Divisions of college baseball, or around 5%.

These are the privileged ones. That small percentage means they are all talented.

I have seen RS play. He is solid, and a quick bat.

As far as rankings, they are always up for debate, but overall the BS100, especially the first 20-30 kids have been tracked for several seasons with an emphasis on summer baseball also. In other words, these players get around and play solid competition, and are successful. Many in the Top 10 have done it Nationally also, with success.

Good example is tracking the Top 10 from 2006. Oliver is doing well at Okie State and will pitch in Cape Cod, as well as Kyle Smith and Brad Stillings from Kent State, both 2008 Codders. Stillings was voted the top pitching Pro prospect in 2007 in the Great Lakes League. Rodgers is right on track with the Braves also.

Six of the 2007 Top 10 all played in National events. What you really want to get out of the list is the fact that most, if not all of the kids move on to college baseball and get to keep playing as part of the 5%, which warrants a BIG:thumb:

[NEWZIP]

Benspapa, correct again, all you have to do is follow the players and research where they are and what they are doing, and like you said, they are usually at the top of their game somewhere.

[Hometeam]

If there is one thing I question about the B.S. rankings, is the fact that there are quite a few one dimensional players in the top 70. I don't mean to disparage those that are on the list, but I think it takes more than a bunch of homeruns or sprinter speed to make the top 70/100. The top 100 should be kids that can hit, run and play the field. Again, to qualify my remarks, all these players deserve recognition, but I believe there are glaring exclusions on the list.

I, and I'm sure many others, agree with you 100%. Personally, I don't even mind a kid who makes the top 70/100 being one who is known for being a good hitter, because in my opinion, hitting is one of the most important parts of baseball. And one that can't necessarily be taught, no matter what any one says. Hand/eye coordination is tough to teach. But to get on this list because of sprinting ability - well, we have track teams for that and it doesn't necessarily mean you are a good baseball player. College coaches are making a huge mistake, imo, when they pass up a good baseball player in favor of a sprinter. 'course, I guess that's why some D1 programs have losing records.

[BENSPAPA8]

I enjoy the debate and tend to agree regarding the baseball skills vs. speed debate. But what I say doesn't matter.

Scouts drool over classy speed and flash because there is minimal projectible RISK when they recommend these types of players. They all say they can teach things like route patterns to the ball on defense, getting a player with a below-average to average arm into better throwing positions, as well as other basic fundamentals. Then they have the speed player learn to bunt and slap the ball..............

[Hometeam]

I enjoy the debate and tend to agree regarding the baseball skills vs. speed debate. But what I say doesn't matter.

Scouts drool over classy speed and flash because there is minimal projectible RISK when they recommend these types of players. They all say they can teach things like route patterns to the ball on defense, getting a player with a below-average to average arm into better throwing positions, as well as other basic fundamentals. Then they have the speed player learn to bunt and slap the ball..............

I know what you're saying is true, Benspapa8 - I just have to vent occasionally. I try not to do it too often, but sometimes I can't help myself.:)

[BENSPAPA8]

I know what you're saying is true, Benspapa8 - I just have to vent occasionally. I try not to do it too often, but sometimes I can't help myself.:)

You can vent all you want. I believe the Pro scouts are the ones most enamored by speed. College coaches recruit the best pitching available and hitters who can rake and mash.

They may take a flyer on a speed guy for CF, but the middle infielders better not only play flawless defense, but hit also. They recruit to win NOW whereas the Pros can buy a HS kid 4-5 years of trying to learn baseball in the minors.

The MLB club isn't expecting immediate returns while the college coach is !!

[PACrat]

These are all nice takes from different perspectives. I hope the young guys are paying attention.

[earholem]

Thanks for some sanity, BBM. Most of these guys think you have to go to a big D1 school to be a top player. How many stories have you heard of kids getting in and then riding the pine for 4 years, or getting run off or just quitting? One thing I can tell you is that you won't be seen by scouts on the bench.
In my 9 years umping I have seen a lot of these northern Ohio guys play. Ron Stout is one of the best. He can hit, run, play the infield and is one of the most fierce competitors on the mound I have seen. He belongs top 50. If there is one thing I question about the B.S. rankings, is the fact that there are quite a few one dimensional players in the top 70. I don't mean to disparage those that are on the list, but I think it takes more than a bunch of homeruns or sprinter speed to make the top 70/100. The top 100 should be kids that can hit, run and play the field. Again, to qualify my remarks, all these players deserve recognition, but I believe there are glaring exclusions on the list.

I think Fish has done a great job but accepts opinions of others to solidify
spots.There is no doubt he is going to miss some guys, Stout being 1 of those.

What about no picks from Woodridge as there are 3/4 deserving guys that made all-state last year, what about l/h pitcher Johnston from Highland, Campriana from Tallmadge plus many more deserving guys.

The bottom line is opportunity, playing time and getting an education with having some fun along the way.

Let's all wish the top 100 well along with the others that will be missed a solid & healthy senior season in 2008

[NEWZIP]

Benspapa, agree again, and the sooner the players and his family realizes and learns it, the better. Bottom line is in college,if you hit, you will be on the field,no question about that.

Earholem, I agree too, and wish these players the best of luck, if you love the game, you always enjoy watching all of these players progress, enter college or pros and develop from boys to young men in the game. They tend to figure the game out and figure themselves out, more and more as they mature, if that makes any sense.

[NEWZIP]

I also wanted to add a point when people say this and that about a player or their level of talent. College coaches determine at what level you are at and not parents, players, or recruiting companies. Of course we all think our young man is the best, but we do not decide if he should be at Div 1, Div 2 or JUCO, etc. Heck, I would think that most college coaches could care less if you even have parents. A player usually gets the scholarship and looks from the level that the coaches determine you are at. If you are playing college ball anywhere, and especially at the Div 1 level, you are good, if you get drafted right out of HS or college, then you are exceptional in some or all areas. I know this is something that we all know already, but most tend to forget when talking about players.

[PACrat]

I also wanted to add a point when people say this and that about a player or their level of talent. College coaches determine at what level you are at and not parents, players, or recruiting companies. Of course we all think our young man is the best, but we do not decide if he should be at Div 1, Div 2 or JUCO, etc. Heck, I would think that most college coaches could care less if you even have parents. A player usually gets the scholarship and looks from the level that the coaches determine you are at. If you are playing college ball anywhere, and especially at the Div 1 level, you are good, if you get drafted right out of HS or college, then you are exceptional in some or all areas. I know this is something that we all know already, but most tend to forget when talking about players.

I agree with what you are saying to a point. College coaches make their determination and offer the deal that they think you will take.
I want to emphasize to the young guys reading this thread that only they and their parents determine where they go to school, not the coaches. If the coach doesn't care if you have parents, don't care about the coach. Remember, this is a business to the coaches. The coaches will tell you what you want to hear. Ask him the tough questions, and see how he reacts. A good one will tell you straight. If you don't feel comfortable with a coach, go elsewhere. The process is stacked against you, and you should view it in that light.
Don't be taken in by the DIV 1 label. Go where you feel comfortable. If it is DIV 1, great. Getting an education is what it is about.

[NEWZIP]

PacRat, great point, and it is about getting the education, it is a business, it is political, and everything is stacked against you.

But if you are only being recruited by Div 1 colleges, then they, the college coaches have determined at what leve you are at, not the parent. I can say all day long that my son is a Div 1 player, but if he never gets any offers from any colleges, after getting out there to every showcase, camp there is, then he is probably not as good as I thought he was, correct.

I agree with you on your advice, and it needs to be said and reminded to everyone. I really meant that part as a joke about the not caring if you have parents, as they get so caught up in getting the players to sign. Take it from a family that lived it and that is why I offered my e-mail address in a post above, for anyone that had any questions. A college coach can even make it very difficult for other colleges when the offers start coming too. I experienced a college coach tell two other college coaches quote "don't even try cause you can't match what I am gonna give him" That same coach told my son he had to have him and would do anything to get him, and that he did that to one player each year of the new recruiting class, of course, I am sure he told all the recruits that...lol. Visit lots of colleges, talk to the coaches, go where you want to go, not where you think they want you or have to have you, because you will get ran off, or it will not work out and you only usually get one opportunity. It Ask former players and current players questions. We did that more the second time around, and my son ended where he was suppose to be and majoring in he wanted to take in the first place, so to these young players starting out, enjoy the process,if you don't have parents that can help out, find someone that can help and read and ask all that you can.

[Hometeam]

[QUOTE=NEWZIP;2924390]PacRat, great point, and it is about getting the education, it is a business, it is political, and everything is stacked against you.

But if you are only being recruited by Div 1 colleges, then they, the college coaches have determined at what leve you are at, not the parent. I can say all day long that my son is a Div 1 player, but if he never gets any offers from any colleges, after getting out there to every showcase, camp there is, then he is probably not as good as I thought he was, correct.

NewZip, I can't agree. Even on the baseball thread on the Huddle, many people have said that baseball is based a lot on connections, even more so than football and basketball. In other words, there may be good players out there, but if no one is promoting him, chances are he won't get the chances that another kid may get, one who DOES know people of influence. I've also seen where the high school coach is connected to a certain smaller college and this is where he'll push for his player to go, rather than helping him go elsewhere at maybe even a higher level. From reading some of your other threads, you of all people should know that it's not all what it seems sometimes, and life isn't always fair. But I do agree that the most important thing is the educational, academic part of it.

[pnthrz4life]

But you do have to remember that coaches are wrong! They are wrong about half of the time too. Unless the player is an absolute can't miss, the coaches have to look at body type and skills and predict what the kid will be like in 2 or 3 years because most kids aren't going to play as freshmen.

Also, many of the best players aren't in D1 schools. Just for example, Andy Schon (or something like that) was at Walsh University(NAIA) and ended up in the minors by the end of the summer.

[Hometeam]

But you do have to remember that coaches are wrong! They are wrong about half of the time too. Unless the player is an absolute can't miss, the coaches have to look at body type and skills and predict what the kid will be like in 2 or 3 years because most kids aren't going to play as freshmen.

Also, many of the best players aren't in D1 schools. Just for example, Andy Schon (or something like that) was at Walsh University(NAIA) and ended up in the minors by the end of the summer.

Good point! I agree! Also, I'm not talking about the blue chip athlete where it's undeniable that he's a definite D1 or pro player; I'm talking about 99.9% of the other players who could fit in to more than one division. That's when I think a lot of it is "who you know".

[PACrat]

PacRat, great point, and it is about getting the education, it is a business, it is political, and everything is stacked against you.

But if you are only being recruited by Div 1 colleges, then they, the college coaches have determined at what leve you are at, not the parent. I can say all day long that my son is a Div 1 player, but if he never gets any offers from any colleges, after getting out there to every showcase, camp there is, then he is probably not as good as I thought he was, correct.

I agree with you on your advice, and it needs to be said and reminded to everyone. I really meant that part as a joke about the not caring if you have parents, as they get so caught up in getting the players to sign. Take it from a family that lived it and that is why I offered my e-mail address in a post above, for anyone that had any questions. A college coach can even make it very difficult for other colleges when the offers start coming too. I experienced a college coach tell two other college coaches quote "don't even try cause you can't match what I am gonna give him" That same coach told my son he had to have him and would do anything to get him, and that he did that to one player each year of the new recruiting class, of course, I am sure he told all the recruits that...lol. Visit lots of colleges, talk to the coaches, go where you want to go, not where you think they want you or have to have you, because you will get ran off, or it will not work out and you only usually get one opportunity. It Ask former players and current players questions. We did that more the second time around, and my son ended where he was suppose to be and majoring in he wanted to take in the first place, so to these young players starting out, enjoy the process,if you don't have parents that can help out, find someone that can help and read and ask all that you can.

I highly recommend that PARENTS and ATHLETES take Newzip up on his offer. He has seen both sides of the process. And the price is right.

[BENSPAPA8]

Unless the player is an absolute can't miss, the coaches have to look at body type and skills and predict what the kid will be like in 2 or 3 years

Don't think so. D1 coaches NEED to win now. There is some misinformation within this thread, and each player and their recruiting experience is UNIQUE.

If you think getting on a college roster is based on "who you know", then you were mislead.

[NEWZIP]

Benspapa is correct, it is about winning and who better to win those games than with the top athletes, and that is what recruiting is all about and those are the players that will take the field to get the job done. Coaches go after the best players that they see that will fit what positions they need at the time, to win games. And that is what we want them to do. But top athletes go to all levels of colleges, for whatever reason, if you don't believe it then look at the draft list and the colleges that players come from. Do I believe that my son could have got the job done given the opportunity, absolutely, or he would not have been there from the get go, do I believe that another player could do the job for less money, absolutely. Do I believe that my son will get the opportunity, absolutely, but it is up to him to stay on the field and that only comes with playing his position and hitting, you have to hit to stay in the lineup on any team at any college. Hits wins games.

My son's was a unique situation indeed, and keep in mind, he is a catcher, so don't need too many on the roster, and people do need to understand the entire process of recruiting, the ups and the downs. We were aware of the ups, but certainly had no idea about the downs, and didn't even know to ask. It is hard for someone to talk about the downs until they went through it, but we are unique because our family did. And it should be talked about, to help others because choosing a program is an extremely important decision and usually only get on shot and one opportunity, not necessarily at going to college but playing ball and getting an athletic scholarship. Only a select few get the opportunity to put on that uniform after high school, it is still a uniform and the game is still played the same and it still feels great to win and be on a winning team and program.

In my previous post, I am only referring to my son's situation and what I know to be true to my son's situation and keep in mind that he has not played in an official first college game yet.

People should take my son's situation and then put that with everyone elses stories, advice, and hopefully get the most out of their recruiting process.

Thanks PacRat, I think!! People can make all the excuses they want, and they will be left behind in life. I never made any excuses on here, just stated cold hard facts that are unique to my son's situation only.

[Hometeam]

[QUOTE=NEWZIP;2924390].

But if you are only being recruited by Div 1 colleges, then they, the college coaches have determined at what leve you are at, not the parent. I can say all day long that my son is a Div 1 player, but if he never gets any offers from any colleges, after getting out there to every showcase, camp there is, then he is probably not as good as I thought he was, correct.

NEWZIP, I respect your situation and know from your postings that you were treated unfairly, but in your above quote, you imply that unless you're a D1 player, you're "probably not as good as I thought he was, correct." Well, everyone has been in different situations, and I do say WITHOUT A DOUBT that I've seen players go D1 because of their connections and other boys have been passed over who were just as good, if not better. You cannot say this never happens because it sometimes DOES happen. I've seen it. Politics doesn't just happen once you BECOME a D1 - it can happen BEFORE you become a D1. And it doesn't make a kid any less of a player; like the one poster said - there are people being recruited out of NAIA's and even D3's by the pros. If they felt these kids are "probably not as good", why would the pro scouts even bother looking at these levels for players - why not just stick with the D1's? Also, for the Buckeye Scout to try ranking these players from 1-100; like I said before, some players ARE standouts (especially good pitchers), but to say that one kid is a 43 and the other a 56 yet they play completely different positions, etc. and the Buckeye Scout has not seen these kids play more than a few times, frankly, is ludicrous, imo. I view it as for entertainment purposes only rather than fact.

[NEWZIP]

Hometeam, I said if he gets no offers, meaning from any colleges, not just Div 1 colleges, no offers at all. I as a parent do not determine if my son is good enough to play at the college level, any level, coaches at colleges that are making offers determine that and the player determines that once he gets to opportunity at the college level. I can't simply go to a coach and make him think that my son is a college level player, when he simply has to prove that in his game.

My son was treated unfairly, not me, he isn't the first one to be treated unfairly nor will he be the last, that is the point that should be made, is he still been given the opportunity to play college ball,yes, so can't feel too bad about that deal. Only a select few get the opportunity, and there is not time for any excuses.

[Hometeam]

[QUOTE=NEWZIP;2923818] If you are playing college ball anywhere, and especially at the Div 1 level, you are good, if you get drafted right out of HS or college, then you are exceptional in some or all areas.

"Especially at the D1 level" - from your postings, you obviously view the D1's as more talented than the kids that go D2, D3, NAIA, or JUCO - and in many cases, you are correct. But in many cases, you are not. There's always exceptions, and I've been taught to never say "never or always". Be careful what you assume because as you well know, it's not always what it seems. Because if this was the case, you'd never have an NAIA beating a D1 (didn't Malone beat Akron?) or a D3 beating a D1 (I'm sure Wooster, Otterbein, Marietta, Heidelberg and some of the others have beaten their share of D1's). Politics enter into EVERYTHING - and I mean EVERYTHING. There's no way around it. And yes, it does occasionally happen with college recruiting. But ultimately, it truly is about the academics (because many of these D1 players won't even set foot on the field let alone play after college) and just realizing that "life isn't fair" and moving on.

[The Big X]

Come on guys give it a rest.

Ranking players/scouting players etc. in baseball is VERY difficult. Players that are recruited to D-1 schools have the necessary height/weight/running times/arm strength as measured by a jugs gun, etc. What isn't measured and what is difficult for college coaches to be able to do is actully see a player in a competitive situation. Go to showcases - infielders are given 4-5 groundballs a couple hit at them, one in the hole, one up the middle and one they must charge from SS. They are told to stay back on the ball to show off their arm strength. Guys can look very good that are not that good in actual games because they really do stay back on the ball. As we all know if an infielder stays back on the ball, not using his feet to get into good position to field and throw the ball while judging the hop to make sure he fields a ball on the high hop instead of the short hop he will not make alot of plays. While couches say they watch a players feet in these drills they really can't as the balls are hit slowly and the players are told to show off their arms. There are MANY examples of this. Go to some D-1 games - the fielding is sometimes attrocious. That is why professional scouts go to all levels of college games. Many players are missed by D-1's because of the "numbers" game used to seperate D-1 players from other college level players by coaches.

It happens in all sports also. The QB from Ohio State that just transferred to Delaware is the perfect example for football. He really does "look" like a QBin height/weight/arm strength, etc. However that intangible of making quick decisions and having an accurate arm changes things. He was rated as a top 10 QB coming out of high school mainly based on a performance at a camp.

As for the Buckeye Scout 100 - there are guys not on the list up to 70 that I would want on my team if I wanted to win other than some of the guys on the list. Winning baseball takes more than just having the right numbers as a scout sees players at showcases.

[Hometeam]

Come on guys give it a rest.

Ranking players/scouting players etc. in baseball is VERY difficult. Players that are recruited to D-1 schools have the necessary height/weight/running times/arm strength as measured by a jugs gun, etc. What isn't measured and what is difficult for college coaches to be able to do is actully see a player in a competitive situation. Go to showcases - infielders are given 4-5 groundballs a couple hit at them, one in the hole, one up the middle and one they must charge from SS. They are told to stay back on the ball to show off their arm strength. Guys can look very good that are not that good in actual games because they really do stay back on the ball. As we all know if an infielder stays back on the ball, not using his feet to get into good position to field and throw the ball while judging the hop to make sure he fields a ball on the high hop instead of the short hop he will not make alot of plays. While couches say they watch a players feet in these drills they really can't as the balls are hit slowly and the players are told to show off their arms. There are MANY examples of this. Go to some D-1 games - the fielding is sometimes attrocious. That is why professional scouts go to all levels of college games. Many players are missed by D-1's because of the "numbers" game used to seperate D-1 players from other college level players by coaches.

It happens in all sports also. The QB from Ohio State that just transferred to Delaware is the perfect example for football. He really does "look" like a QBin height/weight/arm strength, etc. However that intangible of making quick decisions and having an accurate arm changes things. He was rated as a top 10 QB coming out of high school mainly based on a performance at a camp.

As for the Buckeye Scout 100 - there are guys not on the list up to 70 that I would want on my team if I wanted to win other than some of the guys on the list. Winning baseball takes more than just having the right numbers as a scout sees players at showcases.

You said this far better than I could and are obviously very knowledgeable.

[NEWZIP]

Agreed and great points

I played JUCO ball in KS, because that is the only place that I got an offer, and barely had the grades to get in there. Coach never seen my play. I never even took the ACT, but someone gave me an 18 on it, now that was 20+ years ago!! I can only comment on the Div 1 level experience because that is what we experienced with my son, does that make sense. I can only comment on my younger son's experience with his recruiting now. You just play the game, get the education, hopefully everything will out.

[BENSPAPA8]

Forget about showcases for just a bit.

1. High School games: Tough for colleges to get to, but not Pro scouts, but, area scouts and college coaches work together more than they compete, so they give a college a heads up.

2. Area Summer Travel games: If at least one standout is competing, then more often than not an area scout and college coaches sometimes attend, which benefits all the players, which is why premier summer baseball is vital for exposure, good or bad. Examples are Connie Mack, etc.

3. Area/Regional summer events: Always have Pro and college scouts. Examples are NABF/AABC at Cene Park, CABA, Buckeye Elite, and Midland.

4. Regional and Out-of State Premier events: For Ohio kids, means travel to college fields in Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, etc. with games against teams like the Indiana Bulls, Kentucky Colonels, where again, scouts and coaches attend regularly. This stresses the importance of playing with a great summer organization.

I have had the pleasure of meeting some great coaches along this path at these events, and believe me on this, they all talk amongst themselves even while competing for the same players.

5. National events: If you get to one of these by invitation, it means many options regarding choices, granted you produce. I am not talking about a $600 fee based event sponsored by a showcaser, but the ones that they pay 100% for the kid. Get to one of these, and prove you belong by field play, and not only do you get a great baseball experience, but a quick evaluation of where you stand overall in your class.

If you excel locally, you will be considered one of the top locals.

If you excel regionally, you will be considered one of the top in your region.

If you excel nationally, you will be considered one of the top in the USA.

Then you get to prove yourself all over again. Thats baseball !!

As far as Fish and the BS100................this guy is sharp, a former D1 star, well respected, and knows all about what these players are doing at all the events mentioned above.

The best thing a young player can do is identifying his weaknesses, and fixing them, be it an awkward throwing motion or a hitch in a swing that slows down the bat. The next best thing is for the young player to accept the fact the game has more failure than success.

I asked a couple local players who had the opportunity to play in a national event how they were able to hit pitchers throwing 93-96 mph, with wood bats after just completing a HS season where they saw anywhere between 65-85 mph regularly ?

They responded........."you adjust quickly".

What they really meant was that they already had the ability!!:cool:

[NEWZIP]

Benspapa, very well put and true in every aspect you say. You know what you are talking about. I am sure that your son can say the the same, but two of the best scout ran showcases that my son was invited to was the Area Code Games in CA, and the East Coast Professional Showcase Tryouts in Cincinnati. Both ran by true scouts and sponsored by MLB. Cost nothing for the player to attend except your travel expenses there. Got a phone call or letter in the mail, and that is how you knew to be there, to get the opportunity to show your stuff. And like Benspapa said, you adjust, or have the ability to perform with around 50-60 pro scouts sitting 10 feet behind you with radar guns. My son got a phone call to be at the CABA world series in Euclid to play with Bergen Beach, never heard of the coach, never knew one player, everyone showed up and the talent was exceptional.


The point is, take all of this information that is out there and use it to your advantage. Ask us questions, ask players questions, take advantage of every opportunity.

[Hometeam]

As far as Fish and the BS100................this guy is sharp, a former D1 star, well respected, and knows all about what these players are doing at all the events mentioned above.

The best thing a young player can do is identifying his weaknesses, and fixing them, be it an awkward throwing motion or a hitch in a swing that slows down the bat. The next best thing is for the young player to accept the fact the game has more failure than success.

I asked a couple local players who had the opportunity to play in a national event how they were able to hit pitchers throwing 93-96 mph, with wood bats after just completing a HS season where they saw anywhere between 65-85 mph regularly ?

They responded........."you adjust quickly".

What they really meant was that they already had the ability!!:cool:

As brilliant as I'm sure this Fish is, still, 100 boys are an awful lot to keep accurate track of. And then to try and rank them in numerical order? Well,
personally, I don't think that's possible or even credible. Again, not saying that there's not a lot of good players on this list who deserve to be there. Just that I'm sure that not ALL deserve to be there. As for being able to "adjust quickly" - there are players at all levels who can "adjust quickly". I get the feeling from some of the posters on here that they feel the only good baseball players are those at the D1 level. And we know how inaccurate THAT is.

[BENSPAPA8]

Relax Hometeam......most baseball folks know that programs such as Marietta and their counterpart D3's would compete pretty well anywhere as long as they had depth on the mound. Most dominant pitchers play D1, and the bullpens probably make the biggest difference.

[PACrat]

This BS100 list has been a long and interesting discussion. Lets see if I can put it in a nutshell.
1. The list is subjective.
2. If you are on the list, its right on.
3. If you are not, its absurd.
4. Baseball isn't always fair. Especially when it is business.
5. Baseball is always fun, whether you are playing or talking about it.

In 25 days pitchers and catchers can start getting ready for high school ball. Forget the list and start working.

[Voice-of-Reason]

This BS100 list has been a long and interesting discussion. Lets see if I can put it in a nutshell.
1. The list is subjective.
2. If you are on the list, its right on.
3. If you are not, its absurd.
4. Baseball isn't always fair. Especially when it is business.
5. Baseball is always fun, whether you are playing or talking about it.

In 25 days pitchers and catchers can start getting ready for high school ball. Forget the list and start working.


Good Post!

[Hometeam]

This BS100 list has been a long and interesting discussion. Lets see if I can put it in a nutshell.
1. The list is subjective.
2. If you are on the list, its right on.
3. If you are not, its absurd.
4. Baseball isn't always fair. Especially when it is business.
5. Baseball is always fun, whether you are playing or talking about it.

In 25 days pitchers and catchers can start getting ready for high school ball. Forget the list and start working.

I like it! Also, and as far as most of the dominant pitching being in D1 - yes, but you DO have some gems at the lower levels, also, such as Dan Remenowsky (Otterbein), - talk of him possibly going pro at some point in time; and Sam Campitella, Malone College, just to name a few.

[NDIrish81]

I cant believe there is only one player from the GCL south...is nastold even on the list? Moeller and Elder are arguably the best programs in ohio in DIV 1 and they have no one on any lists. Wow. I'm just surprised, I understand the list means nothing really.

[hawktime]

NDIrish......I see at least three GCL-South players on the BS Top 70.... Oltorik (MOE), Nastold (ELD) and Williams (MOE).

[The Big X]

NDIrish......I see at least three GCL-South players on the BS Top 70.... Oltorik (MOE), Nastold (ELD) and Williams (MOE).

TJ Jones is also on the list. That is it for the GCL-S - only 1 player other than pitchers. Considering that the league had one team in the Final 4, one team in a Reginal Final and one team that lost in a Regional semi-final I would think more than one position player would be listed that had major contributions last year.

[firstbasefirst]

I have alsways said I would never get invovled in the discussions of who is on first and what is on second. I will start by saying if you want your kid or a player seen he has to first go where he can be seen. I also do not agree with showcase stats being the reason a kid is first or second. The BS does not only take information from the showcase. They have spent numerous hours at ballfields all over Ohio scouting and watching kids play ball. While it is true that the top 100 as seen by the BS may not be your top 100, if you posted a top 100 your list would also not include ALL of the best players in Ohio and everyone else would still say it is not accurate. When you see a kid play all of the time and he does well, of course you think he is the best. When you have not seen a kid play all the time is it fair for you to say he should not be there. All that to say, lists are just that, lists. The college coaches or Pro scouts do not take these lists and just look at these kids. The kids who are putting up numbers all over the state are the ones who will be scouted and followed.

I know a kid who never got any mention from the league he played in or in the Columbus Dispatch All whatever team they had but made All State. As for speed. Give me a kid who can run down a shot that should have been a double in the gap, give me a kid who can turn a routine ground ball into a single, give me a kid who can go from first to third on a sacrifice bunt, give me a kid who will make the pitcher lose focus on the batter because he is worried about the runner and I will give you a kid that any D1 AND any major league team would love to have. If a kid can bunt a ball he can see the ball and put the bat on it, thus, hand eye coordination. Almost ALL big time recruters will tell you they can teach him the rest. Since it is thier business I will side with them.

[Hometeam]

If a kid can bunt a ball he can see the ball and put the bat on it, thus, hand eye coordination. Almost ALL big time recruters will tell you they can teach him the rest. Since it is thier business I will side with them.

Unfortunately, only a small percentage of batters can lay down a good bunt, in college and even in the pros. So give me a hitter over a sprinter ANY DAY!

[firstbasefirst]

Please do not confuse what I said. You used the word sprinter which implies that is what they do. I am speaking more of a kid who is a ball player but may not have all of his power harnessed yet. I agree with you that I too would take a hitter over a sprinter. But if I had the choice of a kid who hits well and does not have the speed to make more happen and a kid who can still hit (a slow roller to short and beats it out as it goes in the book as a hit) and make all the other things happen give me the latter as he is more valuable.

[JBaller]

When I played, I was an excellent bunter. I was one of the slower guys on my team, but was still able to beat out bunts for hits. Bunting for a hit is all about the ability to surprise the defense by squaring late and then bunting the ball away from the fielders (typically on the 3rd base line, halfway up because it's the toughest throw to make). Players can learn to do this with a lot of practice, but most never actually bother to learn. Anyone looking to add another dimension to their offensive game should definitely learn how to bunt.

[pnthrz4life]

Personally I use the bunt for a couple of reasons. I will show it at least once a game to tighten up the defense. If I'm in a big slump against a good pitcher it will get me a hit and some confidence. Also, it makes the defense nervous when they think there is a bunt. Often pitchers will get flustered due to one bunt base hit.

[Hometeam]

When I played, I was an excellent bunter. I was one of the slower guys on my team, but was still able to beat out bunts for hits. Bunting for a hit is all about the ability to surprise the defense by squaring late and then bunting the ball away from the fielders (typically on the 3rd base line, halfway up because it's the toughest throw to make). Players can learn to do this with a lot of practice, but most never actually bother to learn. Anyone looking to add another dimension to their offensive game should definitely learn how to bunt.

I agree with everything you said. Also, you said you were an excellent bunter, and one of the slower guys on your team. You were an excellent bunter and probably an excellent hitter all around, I'd guess. And that's my point exactly - sometimes coaches get little, fast guys on their team who can't necessarily hit well, but the coach figures he can always teach this little, fast kid to bunt. Well, sometimes the best hitters and bunters aren't necessarily the fastest guys yet they can still beat out bunts for hits. And if a kid isn't a good hitter to begin with, you'll never be able to teach him to lay down a good bunt consistently. Which is why I think that good hitting, good defense, and good baseball in general should be priority one, even over speed.
Even the slower guys can beat out bunts plus they can hit for power as well.

[Perry01]

I don't think there is any question that Curl will be drafted in this upcoming draft in the first couple of rounds and should be the Number 1 player in Ohio.

[BaseballRepresent]

Thanks for some sanity, BBM. Most of these guys think you have to go to a big D1 school to be a top player. How many stories have you heard of kids getting in and then riding the pine for 4 years, or getting run off or just quitting? One thing I can tell you is that you won't be seen by scouts on the bench.
In my 9 years umping I have seen a lot of these northern Ohio guys play. Ron Stout is one of the best. He can hit, run, play the infield and is one of the most fierce competitors on the mound I have seen. He belongs top 50. If there is one thing I question about the B.S. rankings, is the fact that there are quite a few one dimensional players in the top 70. I don't mean to disparage those that are on the list, but I think it takes more than a bunch of homeruns or sprinter speed to make the top 70/100. The top 100 should be kids that can hit, run and play the field. Again, to qualify my remarks, all these players deserve recognition, but I believe there are glaring exclusions on the list.


couldn't have said it better myself. Kudos Sumump.

[BaseballRepresent]

This BS100 list has been a long and interesting discussion. Lets see if I can put it in a nutshell.
1. The list is subjective.
2. If you are on the list, its right on.
3. If you are not, its absurd.
4. Baseball isn't always fair. Especially when it is business.
5. Baseball is always fun, whether you are playing or talking about it.

In 25 days pitchers and catchers can start getting ready for high school ball. Forget the list and start working.

I agree here, too.

[PACrat]

Let’s Get Back to Baseball Basics
5-foot-9, 160 lbs. Doesn't sound like much does it? Like, where's the beef? A Major League baseball player? Can't be. He's not tall enough or big enough to play in "our" league. He's only played in Japan and yes he's won 7 batting titles over there but that is over there not over here.

The above attitude was prevalent throughout the league prior to the 2001 season with many major league people seriously doubting Ichiro's ability to play at "their" level. Yes he had speed and yes he could swing a bat (in Japan) but just look at him, he's just a little guy. We want the big power guys who hit the ball out of the park, not little guys who just make contact. Besides the game is about homeruns. Isn't it?

There are some serious egos out there that have a tough time thinking outside the box and this attitude is having an adverse affect on the game. These guys have such tunnel vision that all they see is height, weight and the radar gun pretty much at the expense of everything else. If somebody is hitting bombs there are scouts all over the place. But what about the player who can put the ball in play in critical situations; who doesn't make mental mistakes; makes accurate throws all the time and hustles out every ground ball? Isn't this balanced player more valuable than the heavy duty long ball hitter?

Look at it from the perspective of time. Which player has the most opportunity to positively effect a game? Do you want the one sided long ball hitter who can only be effective while at the plate (3 maybe 4 times a game on average) and is a long way from a gold glove or the balanced player who is focused and dedicated to playing the entire game; a player who is a force in the field, makes things happen on the bases and yes can make magical things happen with the bat. I'll take door number two.

Reggie Jackson was asked during an interview on TV what Ichiro should do to improve his game and Reggie's answer was - Hit with more power. How macho. Reggie, you lead the majors and probably the world in career strikeouts. I'll take a .350 batting average (batting title), a league leading 56 stolen bases, a .455 average with runners in scoring position, and an arm like a canon with the accuracy of a laser any day. Keep your strike out record Reggie.

Let's get back to the basics and dedicate ourselves to playing the complete and balanced game.

Chuck Snow ReactionPro, LLC www.ReactionPro.com

[Hometeam]

Let’s Get Back to Baseball Basics
5-foot-9, 160 lbs. Doesn't sound like much does it? Like, where's the beef? A Major League baseball player? Can't be. He's not tall enough or big enough to play in "our" league. He's only played in Japan and yes he's won 7 batting titles over there but that is over there not over here.

The above attitude was prevalent throughout the league prior to the 2001 season with many major league people seriously doubting Ichiro's ability to play at "their" level. Yes he had speed and yes he could swing a bat (in Japan) but just look at him, he's just a little guy. We want the big power guys who hit the ball out of the park, not little guys who just make contact. Besides the game is about homeruns. Isn't it?

There are some serious egos out there that have a tough time thinking outside the box and this attitude is having an adverse affect on the game. These guys have such tunnel vision that all they see is height, weight and the radar gun pretty much at the expense of everything else. If somebody is hitting bombs there are scouts all over the place. But what about the player who can put the ball in play in critical situations; who doesn't make mental mistakes; makes accurate throws all the time and hustles out every ground ball? Isn't this balanced player more valuable than the heavy duty long ball hitter?

Look at it from the perspective of time. Which player has the most opportunity to positively effect a game? Do you want the one sided long ball hitter who can only be effective while at the plate (3 maybe 4 times a game on average) and is a long way from a gold glove or the balanced player who is focused and dedicated to playing the entire game; a player who is a force in the field, makes things happen on the bases and yes can make magical things happen with the bat. I'll take door number two.

Reggie Jackson was asked during an interview on TV what Ichiro should do to improve his game and Reggie's answer was - Hit with more power. How macho. Reggie, you lead the majors and probably the world in career strikeouts. I'll take a .350 batting average (batting title), a league leading 56 stolen bases, a .455 average with runners in scoring position, and an arm like a canon with the accuracy of a laser any day. Keep your strike out record Reggie.

Let's get back to the basics and dedicate ourselves to playing the complete and balanced game.

Chuck Snow ReactionPro, LLC www.ReactionPro.com

Actually, if you look at the college recruiting, it seems like a great many college coaches are passing on the bigger, more powerful guys in favor of the smaller, speedier guys. Personally, rather than trying to teach players how to bunt, pick the ones who can hit well to begin with - no matter if they are big but not necessarily a sprinter or smaller and fast as lightning. The size of the player shouldn't be the biggest factor, but the ability to hit should. Ichiro doesn't always have to bunt; he can hit line drives as well because he's a great hitter. I don't like the big, powerful guys who strike out a lot, either; I think the most valuable player is one who is a consistent hitter, consistent fielder, good reaction time, good base runner, motivated and loves the game, even if he isn't necessarily the fastest runner. And to be perfectly honest, I like seeing guys up to bat who are capable of hitting homeruns once in awhile.

[IMO]

Actually, if you look at the college recruiting, it seems like a great many college coaches are passing on the bigger, more powerful guys in favor of the smaller, speedier guys. Personally, rather than trying to teach players how to bunt, pick the ones who can hit well to begin with - no matter if they are big but not necessarily a sprinter or smaller and fast as lightning. The size of the player shouldn't be the biggest factor, but the ability to hit should. Ichiro doesn't always have to bunt; he can hit line drives as well because he's a great hitter. I don't like the big, powerful guys who strike out a lot, either; I think the most valuable player is one who is a consistent hitter, consistent fielder, good reaction time, good base runner, motivated and loves the game, even if he isn't necessarily the fastest runner. And to be perfectly honest, I like seeing guys up to bat who are capable of hitting homeruns once in awhile.

thats the great thing about baseball, it is VERY RARE any one player will have all those tools...teams have to match up with what players do well and what they dont do well.

[jus do it]

the top 100 has been released.

[bigdawg33]

Intersting last 30. I wondered where Campriana would come in....PD had him player of the year or something like that...he is basically a one tool player...figured he had a in with someone at the PD. I would agree with his placement in the 80's. There were plenty of players who hit as well as him and had more than one tool. Walsh's expected number 1 pitcher, the big lefty Starn was in the bottom ten...interesting, maybe Belair (Ohio hurricane too) who is signed with Kent will be their number one. He is rated much higher. Finally a kid from Woodridge makes the list. LHP Jones is 71. According to last years forums and this years forums they claimed to "have at least 5-6 D1 guys." They also have claimed to have the "best catcher in the state", but he is nowhere to be found in the top hundred. Must have been overlooked. Most of them played for the Ohio Hurricanes which was a very competitive travel team, and were seen by enough coaches to get noticed, even though they play in D3 in HS. The kid from Moeller will have a great opportunity playing at Harvard. can't beat the education...and that is really what it is about. Overall once you get past the first 20-30 players it has got to be hard to rank

[PACrat]

Congrat's to everyone who has made the list. Those who haven't, show them how wrong they were starting today!

[earholem]

Intersting last 30. I wondered where Campriana would come in....PD had him player of the year or something like that...he is basically a one tool player...figured he had a in with someone at the PD. I would agree with his placement in the 80's. There were plenty of players who hit as well as him and had more than one tool. Walsh's expected number 1 pitcher, the big lefty Starn was in the bottom ten...interesting, maybe Belair (Ohio hurricane too) who is signed with Kent will be their number one. He is rated much higher. Finally a kid from Woodridge makes the list. LHP Jones is 71. According to last years forums and this years forums they claimed to "have at least 5-6 D1 guys." They also have claimed to have the "best catcher in the state", but he is nowhere to be found in the top hundred. Must have been overlooked. Most of them played for the Ohio Hurricanes which was a very competitive travel team, and were seen by enough coaches to get noticed, even though they play in D3 in HS. The kid from Moeller will have a great opportunity playing at Harvard. can't beat the education...and that is really what it is about. Overall once you get past the first 20-30 players it has got to be hard to rank

Sounds like a little jealous state on the Canes.Leave it on the field.

5 tool players are very rare, they must have great speed, hit for average, hit for power, have a great throwing arm and play excellent defense.

I believe Camp has proven 3 of those trates over the years and up to him to improve on the other 2 the next few years.

I believe Debord and Starn will have the opportunity to play the next level as well as many others.

Glad to hear you understand education is top priority.

[bigdawg33]

Sounds like a little jealous state on the Canes.Leave it on the field.

5 tool players are very rare, they must have great speed, hit for average, hit for power, have a great throwing arm and play excellent defense.

I believe Camp has proven 3 of those trates over the years and up to him to improve on the other 2 the next few years.

I believe Debord and Starn will have the opportunity to play the next level as well as many others.

Glad to hear you understand education is top priority.

Actually for what I know of the Hurricanes they were an excellent team. But I also heard a lot of boasting from some of them, which did not pan out in all the D1 offers they projected. Not jealous, just disappointed that they did not just let their play speak for them......

As for Camp.... which 3 tools does he have? Also does that mean that many of the 80 or so players above him have more than 3 tools...Sorry I feel the PD overated him IMO

[BaseballRepresent]

Actually for what I know of the Hurricanes they were an excellent team. But I also heard a lot of boasting from some of them, which did not pan out in all the D1 offers they projected. Not jealous, just disappointed that they did not just let their play speak for them......

As for Camp.... which 3 tools does he have? Also does that mean that many of the 80 or so players above him have more than 3 tools...Sorry I feel the PD overated him IMO

he's referring to camp's ability to hit for average, hit for power, and his speed. Camp is pretty quick. He proved it last year after nearly beating out a high chopper to wilhite on the pitching mound when woodridge played tallmadge at patterson park. A couple of us on the woodridge side thought he might have been safe.

And what hurricane has been boasting on this website? There has been no boasting whatsoever. Those who have supported the claims that there are D1 players on that summer team have based their opinions on personal experience and watching them play. What we've said is no different from others on this website who have promoted kids they've seen. Quit belittling people for their opinions. You sound like your in high school.

[Perry01]

Legit five tool players are very rare and there are only a couple of them thorugh out all of baseball scouting per year.

[ohiofootball123]

where is brett tevepaugh ss/kenston on this list? he was named a second team all american last season as a junior

[Raker30-8]

You guys just need to produce

[itsa3]

As brilliant as I'm sure this Fish is, still, 100 boys are an awful lot to keep accurate track of. And then to try and rank them in numerical order? Well,
personally, I don't think that's possible or even credible. Again, not saying that there's not a lot of good players on this list who deserve to be there. Just that I'm sure that not ALL deserve to be there. As for being able to "adjust quickly" - there are players at all levels who can "adjust quickly". I get the feeling from some of the posters on here that they feel the only good baseball players are those at the D1 level. And we know how inaccurate THAT is.

although players at many levels do "adjust" to the pitchers, the ability to adjust to (key #'s) a 93-96 mph fastball is for the elite players. a fastball in that range gives players very very little time to react. I guess that is why pitching dominates good hitting at all levels.

[itsa3]

I know what you're saying is true, Benspapa8 - I just have to vent occasionally. I try not to do it too often, but sometimes I can't help myself.:)

I guess all the major leaguers who do not run a 4.3 did not get the "run faster memo". Pitchers should be judged by " ERA"---getting people out. Hitters should be based on BA, getting on base and yes speed can be a factor. Catchers should be based upon throwing guys out. One player per MLB club can steal with regularity so I am also confused about the obsession with speed as the only criteria.

[itsa3]

Unfortunately, only a small percentage of batters can lay down a good bunt, in college and even in the pros. So give me a hitter over a sprinter ANY DAY!

Sprinters have a harder time bunting because the other teams (smart ones at least) move in 10-20 feet. If the 3rd baseman moves in that close "speed" advantages are taken away. However the surprsie kids that bunt usually end up not even getting a throw down because they are "caught in surprise".

[itsa3]

But you do have to remember that coaches are wrong! They are wrong about half of the time too. Unless the player is an absolute can't miss, the coaches have to look at body type and skills and predict what the kid will be like in 2 or 3 years because most kids aren't going to play as freshmen.

Also, many of the best players aren't in D1 schools. Just for example, Andy Schon (or something like that) was at Walsh University(NAIA) and ended up in the minors by the end of the summer.

I agree, playing D-1 baseball does mean you are better than others. Some D-1 programs are just not very good. The key word in the whole analogy is is "which" D-1 program. The lower end D-1n schools I won't mention in an attempt to not offend alum, but high end profile schools that produce pros year in and year out such as Kent State, Ball State, occassionally Ohio State, Michigan are the better players. Numbers do not lie. These programs produce and are not wrong often. Pro's do not draft based upon who you know they draft based upon signability and projectability. Many D-2 and some D-3 players get drafted but they are usually late bloomers, bad system in HS or even bad coaching in HS. It also is very obvious that some schools promote their players non-stop where others just do absolutely nothing.

[itsa3]

Actually for what I know of the Hurricanes they were an excellent team. But I also heard a lot of boasting from some of them, which did not pan out in all the D1 offers they projected. Not jealous, just disappointed that they did not just let their play speak for them......

As for Camp.... which 3 tools does he have? Also does that mean that many of the 80 or so players above him have more than 3 tools...Sorry I feel the PD overated him IMO

D-1 programs seem to look for a few things:
High velocity FB (pitching ) great arm strength, power hitters, great hands if they play infield and great speed. Although the hurricanes have a very good team, most of the players on that team are D2 and D3 players. Keep in mind though there is absolutely nothing wrong with D2-D3 baseball. You get a great education and continue to have playing a great game. So I am not knocking those player because collectively that team is very good but colleges pick players not the entire team.

[BaseballRepresent]

It also is very obvious that some schools promote their players non-stop where others just do absolutely nothing.

Yea. Especially Woodridge. Coach dever's a great coach, but he keeps his program underwraps until the season starts. Not a bad philosophy, but one could argue that it could seem, from an outsider's point of view, that he doesn't shop his players much. From what i personally know, at least his philosophy, is that he asks his players what they realistically want to achieve in furthering their baseball career and then makes phone calls to colleges where he thinks they'll fit in. Not a bad philosophy at all. Helped Kruzinski get into Walsh, Joe Lewandowski into Ohio Dominican.

[KigeRamsey18]

Congrats to all!