Get good on top. You get choice, take top. You are the better mat wrestler...now you can get 4 points per turn. Seems like mat wrestling is fine to me and the reward was just increased for being good on top.
Ask Tim Begley about it.
NFHS rule changes for 2024-25
- Thread starter bucksman
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Get good on top. You get choice, take top. You are the better mat wrestler...now you can get 4 points per turn. Seems like mat wrestling is fine to me and the reward was just increased for being good on top.
Ask Tim Begley about it.
Crimsonblooded
Well-known member
Yeah that’s just keeping par with the 3 point take down. Good with the out of bounds rule. Don’t like the the reversal being only two. There is enough incentive with the 3-1 TD to escape advantage that it makes no sense to devalue the reversal. But it’s also my concern about future changes. There is those who would eliminate folk style or change it to a modified always starting neutral at every break in action. These articles have been written on track and flo. This is going to ruin it for me and those that have their advantage with mat wrestling. So I don’t think the folk style guys should accept reversals being two.
I would be curious to see the total number of td's recorded at the NCAA level over the last 5 years and compare it to last year after giving the extra point. I would guess there wasn't much of a difference. While it looks good on the surface of more points = more incentive to score, I just don't think the data would support that assumption. I could be completely wrong, but that data isn't easily obtained so will probably never know.
With the level gaps in high school, I don't think this will change anything either.
I think this points change hurts the really good, but not elite wrestlers that win by only a couple points. If you are a takedown machine, you are already teching everyone. And if you are a beast on top, you are turning for tech falls or pinning everyone. So who really benefits?
CoachA1317
Member
But there were a significant number more of tech falls. Meaning guy were either getting more takedowns, or working harder for turns, or a combination of both.
MPhillips
Well-known member
Before 2015-2016 2 points were awarded for a NF between 2 and 4 seconds and 3 points for a NF of 5 seconds or more. It was then changed to 2 points for a NF of 2-3 seconds and 4 points for 4 seconds or more. If we compare the period 2008-2015 (before the 4 point NF) with 2016-2021 (after the 4 point NF and before extra the free year) the # of TF increased from 12.8 to 27.2 per tournament. That is an increase of 112.5%. This increase came from turning MDs into NFs, but also from turning PFs into TFs. Pinfalls fell from an average of 71.6/tournament before the rule change to 67 after. This was a decrease of 6.4%.
The 4 point NF turned all 3 point NFs into 4 point NFs (an increase of 33%) and some 2 point NFs (over 4s and < 5s) into 4 points NFs an increase of 100%. The changes for next season not only increase some 2 point NFs into 3 points NFs but increase TDs, which are much more common, by 50%
~WKN
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TopBottomNeutralDefer
Member
Need to adjust how Major Decision and a Tech is Scored. 10pt difference for a MD, 18pt for a Tech is more prorated to the points adjustment especially with near falls going 2, 3 4.
Or each TD/turn accounted for more points, so the number of scoring moves didn't change much, but the number of points scored did. High majors now became Techs, high decisions now became majors. The only way to know is to have the data and compare.
Exactly what I meant with my original post. More points don't necessarily mean more action.
Only if you're losing. If you're winning, and now with a larger lead, it's more incentive to stall
I disagree, it's probably the exact opposite. Bigger lead gives more incentive to get the finish by TF. A narrow lead will see more stalling because giving up one big move now could be 7 points instead of 5. Up by 9...get the tech. Up by 4...stall it out.
Crimsonblooded
Well-known member
Honestly, I don’t think this is changing anyone’s style. Benefiting a style? Yes, but not so much changing. Now the impact is the end game where you mathematically determine what your choices are to get the win. Sometimes the takedown guy is gonna ride to close out his win. This is where the mat wrestler gets his opportunity to score. One point down, a reversal is exciting. Wouldn’t a three point reversal generate more excitement to swing the score if down by two or three? While giving it the same value for gaining control. What if tilts and cradles gave you 3 NF but the Half Nelson only gave you 2 NF. Well that wouldn’t make good sense.
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Maybe in a world where Duals still matter (I actually love a good dual). The tournament world is mostly individual, so getting to the next round is all that matters.
Can someone explain two things to me? What is the 5 point near fall count? Something about injury or blood? and What is the takedown rule? so many times on the edge if you have both ankles it isnt counted. Some refs say you must be higher than the knee???
Im just looking for clarity.
Im just looking for clarity.
Not trying to sound like a smart, but other than the 5pt near fall, we all may have to wait until the rules interpretation meeting when we can ask those same questions to the people in charge. Asking on here will give you multiple interpretations of the same rule.
As for the 5pt near fall, correct, it's that additional stoppage point for things like blood, injury, or penalties.
NEW rule . wrestler A is up 3 - 1 after 1. A chooses neutral 2nd period. A TD 6 - 1. 3rd period wrestler B is choosing ,whats his choice? Now whos going to fight to win and whos going to just finish the match. A will stall hes tired, B will try but from what position.......OLD rule same scenario . . OLD rule. Wrestler A is up 2 - 1 after 1. A chooses neutral 2nd period. A TD 4 - 1 . 3rd period wrestler B is choosing , whats his choice? NEW rule makes for a better match or OLD rule.... al ya have to do is answer OLD or NEW..... dont give the scenario of well i wouldn t have chose this or that. just an answer..... remember these are high school and jr high kids. not everyone is a state tournament qualifier during regular season. Hows the NEW rule look..... now it is the district and state tournament and hows the NEW rule look..... Remember OLD or NEW?
Did atopthesummit just make an appearance?
Jim Behrens
Well-known member
Given the scenario laid out, it doesn't make any difference what anyone thinks or "knows".
First, the point values with be changed BUT they are the same for everyone. The object is to score more points (barring a fall) than the opponent.
Making the assumption that wrestler A will stall is just wrong. Every single match has its own unique identity. We can only determine each wrestlers course of action as it occurs.
Last, we can all come up with a number of scenarios to bolster our own view. How about waiting to see the changes in action before deciding that you don't like them?
Take top
...turn 'em or pin 'em. I've obviously given up 2 takedowns and been ridden out both times, so let's try our hand at being the top wrestler.
mrroosevelt
Active member
My favorite song and scene from the movie!!!!