If Russia invades Ukraine pt 2

Please read.

Institute for the Study of War

The notion that the war is unwinnable because of Russia’s dominance is a Russian information operation, which gives us a glimpse of the Kremlin’s real strategy and only real hope of success. The Kremlin must get the United States to the sidelines, all
www.understandingwar.org www.understandingwar.org
 
lotr10 said:
They may not be ok with it but they don't see it as a threat against Europe. Say what you will about Europeans but they do know and live their history and Ukraine was a part of the Russian Empire then the Soviet Union for centuries. It is not viewed by Europe as a nation in the same way they see Poland or Hungary or Russia as "nations".
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Yep. People here are projecting their feelings on the subject on them. Typical for liberal thinkers.
 
irish_buffalo said:
They are not. They are more worried about being next AND not having U.S. support.
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Putin is a nationalist, not a commie. His interest is in Novorossiya and places where ethnic Russians live. He firmly believes half of Ukrainians are Poles. The last thing on his mind is marching on Warsaw or Berlin.
 
jackson03 said:
Putin is a nationalist, not a commie. His interest is in Novorossiya and places where ethnic Russians live. He firmly believes half of Ukrainians are Poles. The last thing on his mind is marching on Warsaw or Berlin.
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Agree and I suspect that if Russia has any other territorial ambitions it is largely concentrated in the Caucasus Mountain region and Central Asia. Hell Putin's visit to China might be to discuss dividing up the five "republics" of Central Asia between Russia & China:

 
irish_buffalo said:
Please read.

Institute for the Study of War

The notion that the war is unwinnable because of Russia’s dominance is a Russian information operation, which gives us a glimpse of the Kremlin’s real strategy and only real hope of success. The Kremlin must get the United States to the sidelines, all
www.understandingwar.org www.understandingwar.org
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Ukraine doesn’t engage in the same types of information wars? It’s obvious Russia does but let’s not pretend Ukraine doesn’t engage in many of the exact same types of actions.

I mean it’s truly remarkable how many people believe that Ukraine is one more patriot battery from total victory.
 
Cubsandtigers said:
Ukraine doesn’t engage in the same types of information wars? It’s obvious Russia does but let’s not pretend Ukraine doesn’t engage in many of the exact same types of actions.

I mean it’s truly remarkable how many people believe that Ukraine is one more patriot battery from total victory.
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Agree. Those of us who want a reduced role for the United States in this war are fully aware that the Russians lie through their teeth about almost every aspect of the war. What amazes us is that so many of those supporting Ukraine don't see that they clearly also lie about the war.
 
Cubsandtigers said:
Ukraine doesn’t engage in the same types of information wars? It’s obvious Russia does but let’s not pretend Ukraine doesn’t engage in many of the exact same types of actions.
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Ukraine does not have internet brigades pushing Kiev talking points in the U.S. Comparing Russia's hefty and concerted effort in the social media and disinformation space to Ukraine is completely disingenuous.

The people that NEED to read the ISW article on this won't.
Cubsandtigers said:
I mean it’s truly remarkable how many people believe that Ukraine is one more patriot battery from total victory.
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No one said this.
 
lotr10 said:
Agree. Those of us who want a reduced role for the United States in this war are fully aware that the Russians lie through their teeth about almost every aspect of the war. What amazes us is that so many of those supporting Ukraine don't see that they clearly also lie about the war.
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Ukraine was invaded. There is not equal footing here.
 
irish_buffalo said:
Ukraine does not have internet brigades pushing Kiev talking points in the U.S.
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They have basically the entire western media publishing whatever they say as absolute gospel. Looks a bit different than the Russian operation but it’s highly effective.


irish_buffalo said:
Comparing Russia's hefty and concerted effort in the social media and disinformation space to Ukraine is completely disingenuous.
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Have you gotten on social media lately? Outside of Telegraph Ukraine dominates the social media sphere.

NAFO is a real thing.
irish_buffalo said:
The people that NEED to read the ISW article on this won't.

No one said this.
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I read ISW daily and read the article the day it came out. I never denied Russia was waging an info war it’s obvious that they are. What I’m pointing out is that Ukraine is doing many of the same things and doing so effectively.

The biggest problem imo for Ukrainian support is that a large chunk of the country is sick of war and doesn’t trust the governments motivations. It also doesn’t help that we have a highly divisive president who’s been unable to make the case for why Ukraine matters.

Nearly two and a half years into the war and Biden still can’t say what the goal is. That’s a problem
 
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Cubsandtigers said:
They have basically the entire western media publishing whatever they say as absolute gospel. Looks a bit different than the Russian operation but it’s highly effective.




Have you gotten on social media lately? Outside of Telegraph Ukraine dominates the social media sphere.

NAFO is a real thing.


I read ISW daily and read the article the day it came out. I never denied Russia was waging an info war it’s obvious that they are. What I’m pointing out is that Ukraine is doing many of the same things and doing so effectively.

The biggest problem imo for Ukrainian support is that a large chunk of the country is sick of war and doesn’t trust the governments motivations. It also doesn’t help that we have a highly divisive president who’s been unable to make the case for why Ukraine matters.

Nearly two and a half years into the war and Biden still can’t say what the goal is. That’s a problem
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Negotiate and move on.
 
Ukraine was and is corrupted. The Country should have concentrated on protecting its borders. The USA didn't exactly help them either. Tell me about our military support prior to the war. Where did all of the money go? There is another side to the narrative.

www.breitbart.com

Poland to Invest $2.5 Billion to Build Up Border Fortifications

Poland is investing about $2.5 billion to step up security and deterrence on its border with Russia and its ally Belarus.
www.breitbart.com www.breitbart.com
 
Cubsandtigers said:
They have basically the entire western media publishing whatever they say as absolute gospel. Looks a bit different than the Russian operation but it’s highly effective.
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They do not. Just look at this site and all of the Kremlin talking points.
Cubsandtigers said:
Have you gotten on social media lately? Outside of Telegraph Ukraine dominates the social media sphere.
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In what sense? Misinformation or disinformation? Even if Ukraine "dominates" as you say the content is not aimed at disinformation in the same sense as Russia. Not even close.
Cubsandtigers said:
I read ISW daily and read the article the day it came out. I never denied Russia was waging an info war it’s obvious that they are. What I’m pointing out is that Ukraine is doing many of the same things and doing so effectively.
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They are not. Ukraine does not have anywhere NEAR the resources and people to undermine world governments in the same capacity as Russia. Not even close.
Cubsandtigers said:
The biggest problem imo for Ukrainian support is that a large chunk of the country is sick of war and doesn’t trust the governments motivations. It also doesn’t help that we have a highly divisive president who’s been unable to make the case for why Ukraine matters.
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You are such a wolf in sheep's clothing. "Highly divisive." Large chunk is not majority. The majority of American's support aiding Ukraine and an overwhelming amount of Ukrainians support the war. You continue to fail to make a case for your bizarre stance on the war.
Cubsandtigers said:
Nearly two and a half years into the war and Biden still can’t say what the goal is. That’s a problem
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The goals have been stated. Push back the invaders.

You continue to push a mantra that Russia and Ukraine are on equal footing which of course they are not.

Keep rooting for the bad guys in the guise of "peace."
 
Interesting article on Russian scientists who specialize in hypersonics who are facing espionage charges in the Motherland.

www.yahoo.com

Russia sentences another hypersonics expert to 14 years for treason

LONDON (Reuters) -Russian physicist Anatoly Maslov was convicted of treason and sentenced to 14 years in a penal colony on Tuesday in the latest of several cases against experts working on the science underpinning Russia's development of hypersonic missiles. White-haired Maslov, 77, stood in a...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
Thavoice said:
At least one world leader has the balls to admit what it will take and possibly do something instead if just sending money and weapons like our limpwristed CiC
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I support Ukraine's right to defense but I'm a hard no on American troops in Ukraine. It's their fight to win or lose on their terms.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
Interesting article on Russian scientists who specialize in hypersonics who are facing espionage charges in the Motherland.

www.yahoo.com

Russia sentences another hypersonics expert to 14 years for treason

LONDON (Reuters) -Russian physicist Anatoly Maslov was convicted of treason and sentenced to 14 years in a penal colony on Tuesday in the latest of several cases against experts working on the science underpinning Russia's development of hypersonic missiles. White-haired Maslov, 77, stood in a...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
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Show me the man, I'll show you the crime
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
www.forbes.com

Ukrainian Missiles Are Blowing Up The Black Sea Fleet’s New Missile Corvettes Faster Than Russia Can Build Them

The Russian navy missile corvette 'Tsyklon' commissioned into the Black Sea Fleet in July 2023. Ten months later, Ukraine sank it with ATACMS missiles.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
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Impressive use of atacms but it does nothing to change the reality of the battlefield. Ukraine would be better off using them on supply depots and air fields in the east instead of corvettes in a cold theatre.

Kind of goes to a problem I have with Ukrainian decision making. They are obsessed with Crimea to the point it makes them make poor strategic decisions. Like throwing themselves at the strongest point in the Russian lines during this last summers counter offensive. Instead of finding a weak spot and heading to the Azov sea.

Speaking of the counter offensive ISW seems to believe that the Russians have retaken Robotyne and Klischivka. That more or less wipes out all Ukrainian gains this past summer.
 
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irish_buffalo said:
www.businessinsider.com

The US is thinking about letting Ukraine use its weapons to strike Russia, even if it enrages Putin: report

The change in policy is being considered after Russia placed weapons across the border from northeastern Ukraine, The New York Times reports.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com

Good. Quit having Ukraine fight with their hands tied behind their back.
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I get you’re willing to do basically anything to stop the Russians. It’s your apparent lack of concern for the consequences that bothers me. We are perilously close to the third world war and you want to hammer down.
 
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Cubsandtigers said:
I get you’re willing to do basically anything to stop the Russians. It’s your apparent lack of concern for the consequences that bothers me. We are perilously close to the third world war and you want to hammer down.
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LOL Russia can bomb the hell out of Ukraine (with the help of Iranian drones) but Ukraine can't retaliate with Western munitions (one sided fight). Once again Putin started the war and Putin can end it by getting the hell out. The war has settled into a stalemate, and now talk of Putin wanting a cease fire but only if Russia gets to keep what they already have stolen. With American aid arriving in Ukraine again Putin realizes he will not capture Ukraine any time soon, just now hoping for a trump victory so he can get "peace" terms more to his liking.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
LOL Russia can bomb the hell out of Ukraine (with the help of Iranian drones) but Ukraine can't retaliate with Western munitions (one sided fight).
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Correct.

When Ukraine develops their own long range missiles they can strike wherever they like. In the mean time they’ll use our weapons as we see fit.

Stirred not Shaken said:
Once again Putin started the war and Putin can end it by getting the hell out.
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This applies to every war ever. One of the great on paper sayings that go no where in practice.

Stirred not Shaken said:
The war has settled into a stalemate
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It’s been this way for close to a year now.

Stirred not Shaken said:
and now talk of Putin wanting a cease fire but only if Russia gets to keep what they already have stolen.
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That’s pretty much how this type of affair always works out. He who has the land when the bell chimes keeps it.

Stirred not Shaken said:
With American aid arriving in Ukraine again Putin realizes he will not capture Ukraine any time soon
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He figured that out about two years ago when he withdrew from Kyiv and Kharkiv to focus on the Donbas.

Stirred not Shaken said:
just now hoping for a trump victory so he can get "peace" terms more to his liking.
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I much doubt that the stories today about a cease fire are genuine. More likely that Putin is trying to force Ukraine to turn down terms and weaken themselves globally prior to the western backed “peace” conference.
 
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